I hope its worth it?

No quarter posted:

 

S3

No I have not considered moving the Core,I just ordered a DC1 cable to connect it to my 272,which I thought was the best way to connect it???

Makes sense. I have my US connection via Ethernet not directly to the 272. If you are minded to connect via DC1 then the core obviously needs to be near the 272. 

Regards

David

I have bad news

you could have spent the money on beer.  The system would sound the same

you would be much happier

GregU posted:

I have bad news

 

you could have spent the money on beer.  The system would sound the same

 

you would be much happier

??? 

No quarter posted:

wenger2015 posted:

No quarter posted:

WENGER

Yes the Sopras are staying,I have also just ordered Superlumina speaker cables and Din to XLR.

 

I think your new Cables will be what we call ‘the icing on the cake’. 

The cables will make a significant improvement once they have bedded in.

keep us posted 

I hope so Wenger,maybe you noticed a bigger improvement than me with Fraim,because you have already installed high end cables...and I am using the stock Din to Xlr,and Naca5.I have read plenty of threads here about the Superlumina cables,and the break in required.

You will not be disappointed with the cables, once burnt in you will smiling......yes, they are expensive but they are worth every penny 

I was about to point out that you needed to update your forum avatar, but I see you've already done so.

Fraim, in all black, really is the dog's dangly bits ................. I thought it was just me who'd opted for this version. 

dave marshall posted:

I was about to point out that you needed to update your forum avatar, but I see you've already done so.

Fraim, in all black, really is the dog's dangly bits ................. I thought it was just me who'd opted for this version. 

That’s one advantage buying new, you can pick your preferred colour, I think the black looks superb.

As we were assembling the fraim I said to Finkfan, if it makes no improvement in performance at least it looks great.....

wenger2015 posted:

dave marshall posted:

I was about to point out that you needed to update your forum avatar, but I see you've already done so.

Fraim, in all black, really is the dog's dangly bits ................. I thought it was just me who'd opted for this version. 

That’s one advantage buying new, you can pick your preferred colour, I think the black looks superb.

As we were assembling the fraim I said to Finkfan, if it makes no improvement in performance at least it looks great.....

GregU posted:

I have bad news

 

you could have spent the money on beer.  The system would sound the same

 

you would be much happier

How would I know this unless try?In my case,I have been using the supplied BNC to RCA adapters,because my only 75 ohm digital cable has RCAs.Many people here have said that they are just to get you started,but a true BNC connection is best,so I am rolling the dice and getting Naims own digital BNC cable.The cable was actually thrown in on a deal I just made to trade up to Focal Sopra 1s,so I can still afford plenty of beer.

And think of this, Wenger2015, in 3 or 4 months time you can have the fun of taking it all apart again to tighten the bolts/screws/nuts as the wood will have compressed.

Nick from Suffolk posted:

And think of this, Wenger2015, in 3 or 4 months time you can have the fun of taking it all apart again to tighten the bolts/screws/nuts as the wood will have compressed.

I enjoyed the build immensely, so happy to go through the process again, happy days as they say

Possibly in my case the previous rack I was using, despite my adaptations to it, was far worse then I realised....hence the Significant improvement....

I'm sorry if you mention that elsewhere in the thread, but what was your previous rack? I'm interested because I have a basic rack myself, which I've tried to "improve" - and I suspect Fraim is the way to go...

SamClaus posted:

Possibly in my case the previous rack I was using, despite my adaptations to it, was far worse then I realised....hence the Significant improvement....

I'm sorry if you mention that elsewhere in the thread, but what was your previous rack? I'm interested because I have a basic rack myself, which I've tried to "improve" - and I suspect Fraim is the way to go...

My experience is that the glass, cups and balls used in the Fraim are transformative of my HiFi Racks. You may need longer legs, which are a benefit anyhow. The bits can be bought from your dealer, and the 452 x 400 x 10 mm bronzed toughened glass from any merchant. 

I really love Wenger’s Black Racks, and would recommend that everyone sorts their racks and cable dressing out early on to get the full benefit of their box investment. I demoed a 552 recently and did not get the best from it because I only sorted the racks out with the dealer the day it went back. I’ve now got the demo 252 in, and it sounds almost as good as the 552 without the isolation shelves. I revert to my beloved 282 soon to ponder the next step. Last night the 252 had warmed up enough to really bring out the emotion in the music which had been lacking. All the classic boxes are superb in their way when you get the setup right.

Phil

SamClaus posted:

Possibly in my case the previous rack I was using, despite my adaptations to it, was far worse then I realised....hence the Significant improvement....

I'm sorry if you mention that elsewhere in the thread, but what was your previous rack? I'm interested because I have a basic rack myself, which I've tried to "improve" - and I suspect Fraim is the way to go...

A number of years ago, I bought an Apollo rack from a dealer that was closing down one of his stores.

I assumed at the time it must be good otherwise why would a dealer be using it.

Since then I had adapted it, incorporating wood shelves below the glass and using isolation pads.

As I have mentioned the improvement with the Naim Fraim is substantial, so despite my reservations in spending a large lump of cash on a new rack, I have now concluded I should have made the move sometime ago before upgrading various Black boxes.

If you are considering buying a new or pre-loved fraim rack, I can reassure you that you will not be disappointed 

I had a Fraim about ten years ago, and yes, it’s very good. I sold it when I downsized my system. It would be wrong, though, to portray Fraim as the only rack in town. You can get near to the performance for a lot less money, and without the higher maintenance of ownership. It seems very likely, as Wenger has mentioned, that the jump from the modified Apollo to the Fraim is a lot greater than that from a rack that is already pretty good. 

One thing I do wholeheartedly agree on is that a really good rack makes a really big difference with Naim, and that it’s something to address sooner rather than later. 

Thanks, Wenger and HH.

The Quadresphire is certainly a good option, I have heard a number of demos with Alastair at the Bristol Show.

Myself and Finkfan had a factory tour of Quadresphire recently, the racks are certainly extremely well made and are of high quality.

One of the reasons I have resisted the rack purchase for sometime was due to hearing various racks at different hi-if Shows , including the Fraim and Quadresphire X-Reference and finding them all somewhat underwhelming....

Dealers should maybe have Racks available to take home and try??? Bearing in mind it is an expensive purchase 

I had my Nova, Core and Nap 300 on my glass AV stand, I changed to a second hand Fraim from my dealer to sort out the cables. I was surprised how it brought parts of a performance, suddenly to my attention that I had missed. As HH explained, probably because the AV stand was inadequate......although at the time I thought it was OK. You will not be disappointed, though it does like all hifi collect dust.

Filipe posted:

SamClaus posted:

Possibly in my case the previous rack I was using, despite my adaptations to it, was far worse then I realised....hence the Significant improvement....

I'm sorry if you mention that elsewhere in the thread, but what was your previous rack? I'm interested because I have a basic rack myself, which I've tried to "improve" - and I suspect Fraim is the way to go...

My experience is that the glass, cups and balls used in the Fraim are transformative of my HiFi Racks. You may need longer legs, which are a benefit anyhow. The bits can be bought from your dealer, and the 452 x 400 x 10 mm bronzed toughened glass from any merchant. 

I really love Wenger’s Black Racks, and would recommend that everyone sorts their racks and cable dressing out early on to get the full benefit of their box investment. I demoed a 552 recently and did not get the best from it because I only sorted the racks out with the dealer the day it went back. I’ve now got the demo 252 in, and it sounds almost as good as the 552 without the isolation shelves. I revert to my beloved 282 soon to ponder the next step. Last night the 252 had warmed up enough to really bring out the emotion in the music which had been lacking. All the classic boxes are superb in their way when you get the setup right.

Phil

All the shelves now benefit from the fraim cups / balls and glass made to fraim specs:

Interestingly, when I took the oak platforms out, it was clear that they had warped quite badly so as well to do this.

I agree with Phil's assessment. The benefits of adding glass to a hifi racks type support are significant.

Regards David

wenger2015 posted:

Dealers should maybe have Racks available to take home and try??? Bearing in mind it is an expensive purchase 

The better ones do this and I am surprised yours did not.

I borrowed one small, 5 shelf, stack of Fraim to determine whether a move from a full Reference Stands Unique stand would bring sonic improvements; the aesthetic improvement was already accepted. It did highlight that without a serious think of how to accommodate the CD player a Fraim stand was NOT the answer. Until we solved that, which we did, there was no way I would have bought the Fraim tables. 

I have found this thread very interesting , ultimately I will go to a full fraim setup.....if and when I move out of my man cave - as I would want a double stack and don't have space at the moment. Currently I use an Atacama Evoque SE - this made quite a difference, Interestingly the 40mm bamboo shelves were so flat that no shims were required under the NDS. I found that the timing of the bass was better and female vocals were transformed and imaging improved.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I had a Fraim about ten years ago, and yes, it’s very good. I sold it when I downsized my system. It would be wrong, though, to portray Fraim as the only rack in town. You can get near to the performance for a lot less money, and without the higher maintenance of ownership. It seems very likely, as Wenger has mentioned, that the jump from the modified Apollo to the Fraim is a lot greater than that from a rack that is already pretty good. 

One thing I do wholeheartedly agree on is that a really good rack makes a really big difference with Naim, and that it’s something to address sooner rather than later. 

I remember HH saying that he thought HiFi Racks somewhat leadened the sound, which led me to have doubts about my two stacks! However, [@mention:54786295706447945] posted pictures of his and the benefit of isolation shelves, and advised.  Now we both agree that the Naim, glass cups and balls do the job.

The 252 I’m demoing now sounds as good the 552 I demoed without the isolation. I’m quite relieved to have a cost effective improvement. The icing would be to have predrilled recesses for the cups, but there is no movement of the glass.

Given their relative low cost and attractive appearance I feel content now and at the same time a bit miffed to have spent two years getting the best out of my boxes and cables. Racks really are fundamental.

I looked at Quadraspire and thought they were pretty expensive, and my wife and I did not like them as much as the solid oak I have. Once again, Wenger, your Black Fraims are really cool ????.

Phil

I've been fraimed, well this Saturday when i collect the fraim from my local Naim dealer this will replace my £20 Ikea stand so hoping for an improvement 

Gone for cherry with black legs as the wife insisted this was my only colour option.

HiFiman posted:

...Gone for cherry with black legs...

Mmmm.  Nice.

I'm sometimes tempted to spray the legs black on my cherry/silver Fraim...

If anyone wants a good test of their racks then I recommend the early Genesis up to 1976. I had some really weird sounds from the demo 552 at times! I really love Genesis, which should sound amazing, and it was annoying the car system sounded ok if not spectacular when my system could be weird. Some other music just sounds duller with bad racks and some even really good, which makes it difficult to understand what to do!

Phil

“Leaden” is probably the last adjective I’d use to describe how this set up is sounding now. But - each to their own etc....