I hope its worth it?

Innocent Bystander posted:

I have found 2p pieces to be very effective, accurate central lacating of spikes not being essential. Of course, if you have any, pre-decimalisation pennies are even bigger...

 

Just a tad cheaper than Naim chips too!

Innocent Bystander posted:

As for spikes and carpet, if you have wooden surface below that you don’t want to damage, and bearing in mind that indented spike shoes can be impossible to locate accurately under the carpet, I have found 2p pieces to be very effective, accurate central lacating of spikes not being essential. Of course, if you have any, pre-decimalisation pennies are even bigger...

 

Surely for a system of Naim's calibre they should be half-crowns  

MDS posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

As for spikes and carpet, if you have wooden surface below that you don’t want to damage, and bearing in mind that indented spike shoes can be impossible to locate accurately under the carpet, I have found 2p pieces to be very effective, accurate central lacating of spikes not being essential. Of course, if you have any, pre-decimalisation pennies are even bigger...

 

Surely for a system of Naim's calibre they should be half-crowns  

My grandson has a bag of gold coins, possibly chocolate underneath but maybe worth a try....I will start negotiations with him...

wenger2015 posted:

 

I have decided 

I have convinced myself

I am very much hoping

Put this way, it sounds like the story of my last 10 years of audio life in a sort of Haiku...

Best wishes, it went well a minimal number of times.

Best

Max

Unfortunalely like all thing Naim Fraim needs setting up properly to get the best out of it. It follows that those that think setup is bollocks won’t get the best out of it. Getting it so the cones don’t touch the sides of the cups is a bind, especially as legs don’t seem to line up the same on all shelves even though when you check the holes they seem to, this one I have heard make a difference. It’s easy to knock it out of position too. The other two, orienting the glass for best ring and locating the ball seats so they don’t touch the sides of their cutouts I’ve attempted but I don’t know how successfully.  I did hear quite a difference going from Lite to full.

Max_B posted:

wenger2015 posted:

 

I have decided 

I have convinced myself

I am very much hoping

Put this way, it sounds like the story of my last 10 years of audio life in a sort of Haiku...

Best wishes, it went well a minimal number of times.

Best

Max

Hi Max,

nicely summerised. 

I am going from a rather ancient Apollo rack which I have tweaked by adding some wood shelves with some isolation feet on certain levels, it was purchased originally when I had minimal concept of the importance of a High end racks and minimal funds.

So I’m sort of moving, to use a car analogy from Mini Metro to a Porsche, which is one reason why I’m becoming increasingly confident of a good end result.

I bought Fraim as it seemed the right thing to do and I thought it would nicer than my previous arrangement.  I also had a lot of kit in my old rack which once sold funded the Fraim so it kind of felt free and yes I do understand the principles of opportunity cost!

I was very surprised by the improvement over the Stands Unique rack it replaced.  I wouldn't say the people who are comparing it to a black box upgrade are exaggerating.  Shortly afterwards I had a dedicated radial supply put in, the Fraim upgrade had the mains supply upgrade easily beaten in terms of improvement.

I suspect the quality of the old rack and the position of the room determines how much uplift you will see but I will be very surprised if you are not very surprised!

Richard

It does at first seem expensive.  But look at the prices in some of the really high-end furniture catalogues.  

trickydickie posted:

I bought Fraim as it seemed the right thing to do and I thought it would nicer than my previous arrangement.  I also had a lot of kit in my old rack which once sold funded the Fraim so it kind of felt free and yes I do understand the principles of opportunity cost!

I was very surprised by the improvement over the Stands Unique rack it replaced.  I wouldn't say the people who are comparing it to a black box upgrade are exaggerating.  Shortly afterwards I had a dedicated radial supply put in, the Fraim upgrade had the mains supply upgrade easily beaten in terms of improvement.

I suspect the quality of the old rack and the position of the room determines how much uplift you will see but I will be very surprised if you are not very surprised!

Richard

Not surprised you say that. Similar to my experience of going from basic Quadraspire to full fat Fraim, although I accept the improvement potential is dependent on room, old & new rack installation, rack positioning, quality of system, ……an so on. So no guarantees but Wenger is doing the right thing IMHO as long as he takes the time to install his new Fraim correctly. The dealer should at least be able to offer advice here and as Wenger has a good relationship with him, the dealer might install the Fraim, a good option if it is on offer.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

It does at first seem expensive.  But look at the prices in some of the really high-end furniture catalogues.  

Yes, very true. 

I wonder how the really super expensive high end racks compare with sound quality improvements, is it a case of diminishing returns??

nigelb posted:

trickydickie posted:

I bought Fraim as it seemed the right thing to do and I thought it would nicer than my previous arrangement.  I also had a lot of kit in my old rack which once sold funded the Fraim so it kind of felt free and yes I do understand the principles of opportunity cost!

I was very surprised by the improvement over the Stands Unique rack it replaced.  I wouldn't say the people who are comparing it to a black box upgrade are exaggerating.  Shortly afterwards I had a dedicated radial supply put in, the Fraim upgrade had the mains supply upgrade easily beaten in terms of improvement.

I suspect the quality of the old rack and the position of the room determines how much uplift you will see but I will be very surprised if you are not very surprised!

Richard

Not surprised you say that. Similar to my experience of going from basic Quadraspire to full fat Fraim, although I accept the improvement potential is dependent on room, old & new rack installation, rack positioning, quality of system, ……an so on. So no guarantees but Wenger is doing the right thing IMHO as long as he takes the time to install his new Fraim correctly. The dealer should at least be able to offer advice here and as Wenger has a good relationship with him, the dealer might install the Fraim, a good option if it is on offer.

Unfortunately my dealer is about 4 hours away, so myself and good friend Finkfan will be installing.

As set up is pivotal for best performance, all tips and advice will be very much appreciated. 

Will have a good read of the how to build the Naim  fraim before it arrives. We’ll make a day of it Wenger. Plenty of coffee to keep us going. 

Finkfan posted:

Will have a good read of the how to build the Naim  fraim before it arrives. We’ll make a day of it Wenger. Plenty of coffee to keep us going. 

Can’t wait for the YouTube video.

Wenger, it is perfectly possibly to carry out an optimal installation of a Fraim yourself, indeed I guess the majority of Fraim owners do so.

You have already had some good pointers above and there are more tips on here if you do a search. One thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread so far (I think) is when initially positioning your Fraim base(s), allow plenty of room behind it to ensure cables (especially Burndies) hang free and not need to touch walls to the rear or sides. Once you have built your stack, and your kit is installed and you then discover you have not left enough space for cable dressing, it is a right PITA to have to repeat the whole process.

Good luck and take your time with the installation. A continuous supply of coffee is a good idea!

nigelb posted:

Wenger, it is perfectly possibly to carry out an optimal installation of a Fraim yourself, indeed I guess the majority of Fraim owners do so.

You have already had some good pointers above and there are more tips on here if you do a search. One thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread so far (I think) is when initially positioning your Fraim base(s), allow plenty of room behind it to ensure cables (especially Burndies) hang free and not need to touch walls to the rear or sides. Once you have built your stack, and your kit is installed and you then discover you have not left enough space for cable dressing, it is a right PITA to have to repeat the whole process.

Good luck and take your time with the installation. A continuous supply of coffee is a good idea!

Nigel, do the 300 Burndies matter. A dealer said it was only the signal ones.

Thanks

Phil

Phil - it's best to keep all cables off the floor - albeit the power cables are a bit of a challenge (noting a Powerline is designed to hang from the socket) and speaker cables suffer the usual domestic challenges. 

With burndies, if amp burndies touch the floor, horrid things can happen to the bass - I've heard this 1st hand.

It's why with bigger racks, it's sometimes necessary to have either the amp PS or the head unit (of 300/500) high up, so the burndies have room to dangle.

Obviously, Naim's signal cables (HiLine/SL interconnects + Lavender) are designed to dangle - that's a must. 

Filipe posted:

nigelb posted:

Wenger, it is perfectly possibly to carry out an optimal installation of a Fraim yourself, indeed I guess the majority of Fraim owners do so.

You have already had some good pointers above and there are more tips on here if you do a search. One thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread so far (I think) is when initially positioning your Fraim base(s), allow plenty of room behind it to ensure cables (especially Burndies) hang free and not need to touch walls to the rear or sides. Once you have built your stack, and your kit is installed and you then discover you have not left enough space for cable dressing, it is a right PITA to have to repeat the whole process.

Good luck and take your time with the installation. A continuous supply of coffee is a good idea!

Nigel, do the 300 Burndies matter. A dealer said it was only the signal ones.

Thanks

Phil

In my experience it is optimal to have no cables (digital, low/high level signal, speaker) touching each other nor the walls. In the real world this is often not possible. All Burndies however are susceptible IMHO.

I must admit I have not been obsessive enough to attempt to hear the effect of dressing certain types of cable (dodging the men in white coats you understand) but I do believe I have heard benefits from good general cable dressing. All you can do is your best given space constraints, domestic harmony and the need not to obsess too much. 

It’s a good idea - probably obvious really - to add the Naim boxes as you build. Line up the glass with the front of the shelf, and line up the box with the glass. Get the glass the right way up. Before placing the box, rap the glass with your knuckle. One side will be a dull boink, while the other will be more ringy. You want the ringy side upwards. Once the glass is aligned, push the shelf backwards by pushing back on the bottom of the two front legs while stopping the shelf below moving. It shouldn’t do if it already has a box on it. Then nudge the shelf forward again, just a tiny bit. This will ensure the spikes are clear of the edge of the cups. 

As to the burndies, keep them all off the floor and away from the walls and rack. 

No worries, if installed properly -and your dealer should install it as this is actually included with the price you paid- it will lift your system sonically and its look is fab.  Also its resale value on the s/h market remains strong and stable..;-))

Cheers, F

When you lay out the bases get a long straight edge across the front of both of them to make sure they’re in line, it’s easy to see when they’re not once they’re built but too late then.

HH, Yet142,

thanks for the tips

Hungryhalibut posted:

It’s a good idea - probably obvious really - to add the Naim boxes as you build. Line up the glass with the front of the shelf, and line up the box with the glass. Get the glass the right way up. Before placing the box, rap the glass with your knuckle. One side will be a dull boink, while the other will be more ringy. You want the ringy side upwards. Once the glass is aligned, push the shelf backwards by pushing back on the bottom of the two front legs while stopping the shelf below moving. It shouldn’t do if it already has a box on it. Then nudge the shelf forward again, just a tiny bit. This will ensure the spikes are clear of the edge of the cups. 

As to the burndies, keep them all off the floor and away from the walls and rack. 

I didn’t realise their was a right way up for the glass shelves, is this indicated on the glass or is it completely by tapping it and listening?

Thank you Wenger for starting this thread. My dealer recommended HiFi Racks to me and I now have 12 including record storage. At a third of the price it was a saving, but not if it affects the SQ, and I have some reservations. Good luck on your journey. 

[@mention:1566878604009044] and [@mention:48872963983698699] Thank you for your advice. My racks are not ideal so I put bits of pipe insulation around critical contact points including the floor for the 300 Burndies. The SL SC goes up behind the curtain on the short side which is less than a metre between 300 and speaker. I could buy longer legs to the base as I don’t mind the TT being midriff or chest high as it keeps it away from little fingers! I also run the SC along the carpet which is 80% wool. 

I made one mistake recently by not giving space to a PL Lite cable so the plug might not have been entirely free to adjust itself. I had 5 double sockets put in vertically which was ok for ordinary plugs. Another was to let mains cables come to near. Fortunately it was easy to hear the effect.

Phil

My 

This might be helpful if you havnt already seen it..

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...build-the-naim-fraim

Thanks ALANJ,

Interestingly, To get shelves the right way up.....

Point 12, if you don’t get a ring your looking for a ding rather then a donk?

why not just pop a sticker on the shelves indicating which is the correct way up....