Digital photography/camera for beginners

From a DSLR hobbyists level I can only speak from my own experience and recommend  models I’ve owned.  Like with hifi it depends on your initial budget where you want to jump in and until you establish if it’s something she will stick with, I think second hand is the right way to start.  

I’ve Had great fun and pleasing (to me) results with the Canon 350d and Canon 600d. These were both very popular and have the benefit of there being instructional photography books written for them specifically so you can get practical, pictorial instruction.  I have the book “from snapshots to great shots” for the 600d and get a lot from it still. You can pick up a 350d with lens for under £100 and 600d for under £300 on auction sites.  If the hobby develops the accessory choice and second hand availability for these is substantial.  If it doesn’t there’s a second hand market so you’re unlikely to loose much.

Much appreciated - many thanks!

I would recommend the Panasonic Lumix product line, they have a wide range of camera models. I have also found Pentax to have a great product line with more affordable pricing then Nikon or Cannon in APS-C and Full Frame models. Most camera shops in the US have used inventory since many folks trade-in gear. KEH, B&H Photo, and Adorama are online shops in the US along with Amazon and Ebay where you can find used gear.

Most camera shops that I have visited will help with advice if you tell them what you are looking for, beginner, intermediate or pro and steer you in the right direction.

Good luck!

I’d say get a fixed lens camera with aperture adjustment round the lens and shutter speed dial on top to learn the fundementals and to train her eye. The little Fuji X100 for example.

G

Thanks folks!

Any camera is going to be good for her...  Every ILC (interchangeable lens camera) from the last 5 or so years will be limited by almost any photographer, more so than the photographer being limited by the camera.

Like listening to HiFi, there is no substitute to trying cameras in store - though not for quality (all will exceed her skills) but because what is important is how the camera feels to operate.  It’s important to do this now because you are very much going to be buying into a system so lenses and accessories you buy now can be used as you upgrade as well as all menus, layouts, etc being similar amongst cameras from the same brand.

But for example... A Nikon D850 is a wonderful camera (and totally over the top for learning on so not that’s not a suggestion for a camera to buy) but if it’s too big for her hands, too heavy for her to carry, the menus are too confusing for her, etc. then she will not use it and its  quality becomes pointless.  Equally a Panasonic or Olympus m43 camera is smaller in size, but (like many Sony and almost all Fuji cameras) uses an electronic viewfinder (EVF) vs the optical view finder / mirror box system of a traditional dSLR and some people find that a compromise too far.

Support varies too of course.  Nikon and Canon have the widest range of lenses and the widest availability of third party (Sigma, Tamron, Tokina and others) lenses as well as having a system which is compatible with older lenses.  Sony have some great lenses but tend to be priced higher than Canon / Nikon (IME). Sony E-mount (Mirrorless) and other cameras can use adapted lenses but that tend to come with compromises (though the compromises are lessening and I hear using Canon lenses on modern Sony through adapters works well).

Personally I would say look at Nikon D3x00 or D5x00 line (either the current models or older versions which are still capable) and the Nikon “kit” lenses are pretty good too... but then I’m a Nikon Girl now and there are equally capable cameras in Canon and other lines (I’ve owned Canon and Minolta dSLRs in the past).  

Finally... you might be told how big and clunky dSLRs are compared with Mirrorless but one thing to consider is that if you are adding big lenses, the size and weight of the body can be outweighed by size and weight of the lens and hand holding with larger lenses can be compromised with the smaller sized body.  It all depends what subject matter your daughter is interested in.

What does she like taking pictures of?

I think of photographic goals as falling into a few camps:

1) Recording things personal to the photographer. Family and holiday snaps etc. Any half decent camera will work to a point, including a phone camera. With the right eye, you can get truly great photographs with any camera that you have with you.

2) Taking great photos of things that might not be that difficult to photograph from a technical perspective. The skill is in the "eye", not the gear. Here, high-quality compact like the Lumix range etc are great. Small, so you have them with you always and you don't miss great shots.

3) Taking photographs of technically challenging subjects. Things like wildlife, birds, macro-shots and sports that are fast-moving. Images that require various focal lengths and precise depth-of-field control. Here the DSLRs really come into their own. You're not likely to nail the bird-in-flight shot or the lions taking down the gazelle on the Serengeti with a phone camera. 

Mirror-less, interchangeable lens cameras try to span the range of 2 and 3 but don't do as well as the specialist cameras in either application.

In any case, things to consider are the lens quality, the dynamic range of the sensor and the ability to shoot in RAW format for maximum flexibility in post-processing. Here, the high-end DSLRs shine, but the sensors are getting better in all cameras, including phone cameras. 

Do not worry about pixel count. Anything over about 6MP is just fine. Really.

I’d really suggest she gets to handle and try various models. Some just feel ‘right’ and it is a personal thing. As has been said almost all modern digital SLR cameras are way better than most photographers. She’ll enjoy a camera more if she likes it and is happy to carry it about.

The compact nature of Olympus models has always grabbed me. A brilliant camera is useless if it stays at home because it is a pain to lug about. I am a serial Olympus user, from OM2 via OM4Ti to now the digital PenF. I think their 4/3rds DSLR OMD range might appeal if she wants less weight and bulk. The Pen F is also lovely thing as a mirror less option with lenses to match, if pricey new.

My advice; try before you buy and within reason don’t get too hung up on specs.

Bruce

I wouldn’t buy a digital camera for a beginner, I’d buy an early film SLR and a light meter. They’ll learn a lot more about photography by being forced to select speed, aperture and focus.

A fujica ST605N with 55mm f2.2 would be my choice. Very robust, good quality and cheap. Having an M42 lens mount means it can be used with any of the hundreds of M42 lenses available.

And possible more important, using a film camera is cool.

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I’d really suggest she gets to handle and try various models. Some just feel ‘right’ and it is a personal thing. As has been said almost all modern digital SLR cameras are way better than most photographers. She’ll enjoy a camera more if she likes it and is happy to carry it about.

The compact nature of Olympus models has always grabbed me. A brilliant camera is useless if it stays at home because it is a pain to lug about. I am a serial Olympus user, from OM2 via OM4Ti to now the digital PenF. I think their 4/3rds DSLR OMD range might appeal if she wants less weight and bulk. The Pen F is also lovely thing as a mirror less option with lenses to match, if pricey new.

My advice; try before you buy and within reason don’t get too hung up on specs.

Bruce

 

Seconded!

She's best off with a good reliable small camera which she'll actually bring with her rather than lumber around with dslr behemoths - which she probably won't. The best camera is the one you bring with you!

Show her how to set the camera to aperture priority and if she's interested she can learn proper photography later on. The problem for many today is that they have to learn both photography and the camera with its plethora of buttons and menus.

My wife loves her Olympus OM-D and I have to say I like using it myself; good grip, light, and menus which aren't frighteningly complex and the photos look nice too. One thing I really like about this camera though is the knurled controls which are large and have a distinctive feel to it. 

The new Olympus PenF9 looks really nice also - as the rest of the line and should fit in a small handbag as well.

GraemeH posted:

I’d say get a fixed lens camera with aperture adjustment round the lens and shutter speed dial on top to learn the fundementals and to train her eye. The little Fuji X100 for example.

G

As we seem to be heading in this direction...G

GraemeH posted:

GraemeH posted:

I’d say get a fixed lens camera with aperture adjustment round the lens and shutter speed dial on top to learn the fundementals and to train her eye. The little Fuji X100 for example.

G

As we seem to be heading in this direction...G

Oh yes, definitely! I'd like it myself to be honest, but wonder if it's too expensive for a first camera?

£3-400 S/H it’s a great value training machine!

G

I just bought my film loving son a Trip for £40 mind...It’s great!

G

Can't complain with a price like that. Did you buy a Trip35 for your son? If so - then he's a lucky chap. I love that camera and remember my father had one. It really is one of the most brilliant cameras ever produced with its simplicity and that you don't need batteries.

The original Olympus E-M5 is well worth a look - a great little camera. The kit 12-50 lens is a good starter and there are plenty of M4/3 lenses around for not a lot of cash too.  

Eloise posted:

Any camera is going to be good for her...  Every ILC (interchangeable lens camera) from the last 5 or so years will be limited by almost any photographer, more so than the photographer being limited by the camera.

I think this hits the nail very firmly on the head, even the camera in the phone that the OP's daughter wants to move on from can be far more complicated than a film camera. There are just too many options, gizmos and gadgets on a digital camera. Go back to basics, an Olympus Trip35 (yes I have one) means you have freedom to point and shoot, or have basic control. A Practika or Pentax moves up a bit, but there are just three controls to master. Spending more might give more versatility, but two years on from purchase I still haven't found out everything that I can set or adjust on my Canon G16. Yes, I use it for 90% of my photography. It is a convenient size, has a fast lens for low light and most of all, the reason it is my go to camera, the macro setting lets me get less than an inch from the subject (that becomes a very specialist area with film).

But for sheer joy, a film camera, from the Trip, to a Century Graphic, black and white film and DIY, yes, I still develop my own. Call me perverse, say I am taking a chance, but do a search for Caffenol, brew your own, and play....

A Canon 9X is a nice camera for beginners. It’s very small, takes much better pictures than a phone and enables to go from easy (full automatic) to more complex.....

Mr Fjeld posted:

Can't complain with a price like that. Did you buy a Trip35 for your son? If so - then he's a lucky chap. I love that camera and remember my father had one. It really is one of the most brilliant cameras ever produced with its simplicity and that you don't need batteries.

Yes, a Trip 35. It goes nicely with his OM2n - both of which he prefers using to his digital Fujis.

G

Thanks, everyone, from both of us.

Get your daughter to do her own research. Does she have friends that are also interested? What do they use?

I would vote in favour of a digital camera that has full manual control available (so manual focus and manual exposure control are both available).  Working with film is tedious & expensive and until you're quite an expert at judging the right exposure, unreliable and slow.

Even using a lightmeter doesn't guarantee the right exposure for film (after a steep learning curve, using a spot meter helps a lot, but not for a beginner who's trying to understand why their shots are seemingly randomly to dark or too light); on the other hand, most 'serious' digital cameras allow you to use a post shot histogram, it's a great way to learn about exposure.  With digital, immediately reviewing the shot and re-shooting when necessary is a great learning tool, but the best thing is to go out for half a day with someone who knows the technical side of digital (e.g.:  Exposing for the highlights (expose to the right) and how the post shoot review histogram helps. The fact that most modern zooms are actually vari-focal lenses and have to be refocussed when the focal length is changed.  Along with the things like the difference between control of perspective [including camera height above the ground] and viewpoint and the framing effect of zoom [including the change in depth of field]).  The technical side is easy to get right with a little help - it's just a matter of either learning the principles how the stuff works or learning a set of rules for guidance.  When that's sorted the compositional side can develop, then leading into creative use of 'bending' the technical 'rules' to achieve particular effects.

Don't forget that flexible image processing and editing software is also needed (and no not Adobe Creative Suite - it's an absolute pig to learn).  I'd strongly recommend using DxO Pro for processing Raw images, and also trying a number of different image editors for the post processing work.  I use DLC's Picture Window Pro (free) but that's because I have a past history of using Silver Halide film and it handles images using exactly the same techniques as are used in a darkroom.  I also use Paint.Net (also free) as it does about 80% of what you can do with Adobe Photoshop (but with an easier and more logical interface!), and an older copy of Zoner for it's 10 bit display capabilities (but the new versions of that have now moved to an excessively costly subscription model).

If she's intending to get images printed, it's also well worth getting a better monitor for the computer (minimum spec of an IPS screen, preferably wide colour gamut - >95% Adobe RGB '98) and a hardware colour calibrator.

John Hedgecoe has written some very good books on photography, I would recommend his book titled "Introductory Photography Course"  It starts from the basics.

Ok, I am guilty of ignoring the heading and talking about film, simply because as Eloise said, paraphrasing, digital cameras are so complex.

The whole point of mentioning Caffenol is because the ingredients are cheap. A camera fair can be a good way of finding equipment cheaply. http://camerafair.tumblr.com

For books, try Photography Beyond Auto by Chris Gatcum

My only London camera dealer experience is Red Dot Cameras, highly recommended, possibly also LCE.