552 vs other brand preamps

No answer came the loud reply!

Maybe you have your answer FR, let's see.

This forum is probably the wrong place to get an unbiased answer to this.

Maybe Nigel,

But some members here have high end systems and not always full naim...

In most cases different brand sources with naim electronics...

Before i had 252/supercap / 250 and after ear 912/ 250 and found the ear better on most aspects, even dynamics.  I now have the ear 912/ 300 dr and don’t know which upgrade i will make in the future. The most logical would be 552 ( second hand) with my 300dr, but i am curious on other possibilities....

Is it the right place to mention the somewhat controversial 2.5k Allegri?  

Chag -

well done, a good example Chag....would be curious to have feedbacks on this allegri. Just know Mr Colloms experience.

One or two on here I believe have demo'd (and might even use) a Chord DAC (Dave?) straight into a Naim power amp. I am pretty sure I have heard reports of lacklustre results when a Naim NAC is bypassed.

Although there are similarities here to the use of a passive pre amp, I accept it is not quite the same question you are asking but it does imply that Naim NACs and NAPs are designed to be used as a pairing.

Other non-Naim pre-amps are of course available!

Moderated Post:  I've removed your post. Please note forum rules - re. cross forum discussion.  Thanks.

I think Martin Colloms uses an Allegri preamp with his 500DR.

BP.

Strangely enough @NigelB is was at Signals today who were accomadating my odd requests of trying various DACs into  a Nova. Per other threads the Nova has a ADC on the analogue side......even Chord Dave did not really make much difference.

Then switched to another demo room with a NAC252 fronted by Dave into A NAP300. Switched to the Chord Dave in preamp mode feeding Nap300........not an exhaustive session on this latter part of the demo. For me essentially I would be streaming into 1 preamp input, the rest redundant. Putting a £10k preamp on limited listening with Chord Dave had a little less sparkle. Will now try a home demo of Chord Dave directly into a Nap300.

Its an interesting discussion, I cannot be the only one who does not need 6,7,8 inputs or perhaps even a preamp at all as we go forward. I know some will still want vinyl etc and need this, but it would be nice to be able to have more choice, looks some way off.....

Gazza posted:

Strangely enough @NigelB is was at Signals today who were accomadating my odd requests of trying various DACs into  a Nova. Per other threads the Nova has a ADC on the analogue side......even Chord Dave did not really make much difference.

Then switched to another demo room with a NAC252 fronted by Dave into A NAP300. Switched to the Chord Dave in preamp mode feeding Nap300........not an exhaustive session on this latter part of the demo. For me essentially I would be streaming into 1 preamp input, the rest redundant. Putting a £10k preamp on limited listening with Chord Dave had a little less sparkle. Will now try a home demo of Chord Dave directly into a Nap300.

Its an interesting discussion, I cannot be the only one who does not need 6,7,8 inputs or perhaps even a preamp at all as we go forward. I know some will still want vinyl etc and need this, but it would be nice to be able to have more choice, looks some way off.....

I am sure you realise a pre amp does far more than provide inputs. It will be interesting to read your findings of a Dave straight into a NAP300. It is a shame you can't compare this to Dave feeding a Naim pre amp at home.

Please report back.

I've tried my Dave into my NAP 250 DR, and then added back my NAC 282/HCDR.

the preamp stays 

What the issue effectively is, that Naim have designed their preamps and power amps to be electrically as one unit, which includes the capacitance of the DIN/XLR cable.

removing the preamp, using a non-naim din/xlr changes the  impedance and capacitance matching, and just doesn't  sound as engaging and loses some/most of the rhythmic drive.

In fact after my experiment, I liked my NAC 282 even more !

would be interesting to know if someone use townsend allegri...

I’m evaluating one ... between an NDS and a 300DR ... but using non naim interconnect as its only RCA.

that's where it gets quite tricky. the signal earthing gets compromised.

plus RCA connectors have issues. 

analogmusic posted:

that's where it gets quite tricky. the signal earthing gets compromised.

Why ?

the SNAIC cable carries the earthing for both power and signal.

RCA splits the earth between left and right channels.

Nothing to worry about then. If Chris likes the result and goes for the Allegri, then he could get a DIN to RCA cable. 

Chrissw19 posted:

I’m evaluating one ... between an NDS and a 300DR ... but using non naim interconnect as its only RCA.

and how the sound vs the 282 you have?

@ NigelB I can do a preamp trial as well, just part of the journey,but I had an 82 many years ago with just a cds. It would be nice after all these years if things had changed to accommodate customers.

Well, too early to say. I’ve just set it up quickly and left it with bbc radio on ... the cables are very affordable (20£ rca-rca and a set of flashback rca to xlr) and haven’t been dressed properly ... should be able to start forming an opinion on Saturday ...

Gazza posted:

Strangely enough @NigelB is was at Signals today who were accomadating my odd requests of trying various DACs into  a Nova. Per other threads the Nova has a ADC on the analogue side......even Chord Dave did not really make much difference.

Then switched to another demo room with a NAC252 fronted by Dave into A NAP300. Switched to the Chord Dave in preamp mode feeding Nap300........not an exhaustive session on this latter part of the demo. For me essentially I would be streaming into 1 preamp input, the rest redundant. Putting a £10k preamp on limited listening with Chord Dave had a little less sparkle. Will now try a home demo of Chord Dave directly into a Nap300.

Its an interesting discussion, I cannot be the only one who does not need 6,7,8 inputs or perhaps even a preamp at all as we go forward. I know some will still want vinyl etc and need this, but it would be nice to be able to have more choice, looks some way off.....

I am very interested in your demo of the Dave directly into the 300DR.I thought the Hugo 2 into my NON NAIM amp was fantastic,so I suggest you try that,if it does not gel with the 300.

For the second time on this thread I've had to edit or remove posts due to a breach of forum AUP - please could members, respect forum rules.  If you need a refresher then please re-read.  Thanks.

analogmusic posted:

then added back my NAC 282/HCDR.

the preamp stays 

What the issue effectively is, that Naim have designed their preamps and power amps to be electrically as one unit, which includes the capacitance of the DIN/XLR cable.

removing the preamp, using a non-naim din/xlr changes the  impedance and capacitance matching, and just doesn't  sound as engaging and loses some/most of the rhythmic drive.

In fact after my experiment, I liked my NAC 282 even more !

There’s a surprise. Not

Gazza any results yet????

Not yet they were ordering a special lead...the one they used was out of phase.....needed to change the speaker cables over to rectify for the demo. I have a true signal audio cat 7 on loan hopefully when I take it back I can borrow Dave for home trial.

Back to the original question, what is the point of using a Naim power amp with a different pre rather than that pres matching power amp, except as a temporary setup while accumulating funds. The allegri hasn’t got a match as far as I know (when I visited Max he was running an active setup with low power valves for the tweeters and class D for the bass) but most of the other options do.