Sound logic.

Problem: Too many people have too many guns

Solution: More people should have more guns.

Simples.

Unfortunately it will seem entirely logical to many. But then when you are so far down the road towards a fully armed populace and security/law enforcement it is hard to see that more reasoned or nuanced choices will have the sort of immediate effect that politicians and a chunk of the population crave.

An armed teacher will shoot a student with a gun and lives will have been 'saved'. Result.

A key element of the US situation is the lack of access and continuity in mental health care for children and adults. Arming teachers sounds a whole lot simpler and obvious then health care reform I'm afraid.

Bruce

We had a teacher with "anger management" issues, 99.9% of the time he was a good teacher but if a pupil strayed he would be doing a "chinese burn", or throwing the blackboard cleaner (a block of wood with chalk dust impregnated felt attached to it - left a mark on the target to indicate the accuracy of the aim) or attempting to strangle the pupil. If he had a gun to protect the pupils from an intruder  then I think the risk of collateral damage would be very high.

And before the indignantly self righteous  of you start dialling 999 it was over 60 years ago in a school that no longer exists. 

I remember my teachers being 'armed' with rulers, canes, plimsolls and table tennis bats with which they melted out the occasional 'punishment'.  Seemed to keep order pretty well as I recall.  

More seriously, when I see arguments like these proposed in the USA I really do wonder if we have advanced as a civilised society as much as we like to think we have.   

It really is enough to make you despair. So now every teacher in the USA is to be armed? When faced with a lunatic with a gun, who doesn't give a damn about their own life, the poor old teacher's expected to put themselves up as a target by taking pot shots at them, thereby drawing their fire? Utter madness.

Remember the cold war acronym    MAD       It sums all this up in anyway you look at it.

Oh Donald what have you said now?

It would make the US equivalent of the PGCE course more interesting though:

day 1 - different approaches to learning

day 2 - strip down and cleaning of your issued revolver

day 3 - layout and composition of the classroom

day 4 - how to achieve a 1 inch grouping at 25 yards

At least he didn't come out with 'lets arm the pupils' as the solution although it maybe only a matter of time.

Its difficult to imagine that somewhere along the line that him and Nicola Sturgeon might have a shared ancestor.

Derek Wright posted:

We had a teacher with "anger management" issues, 99.9% of the time he was a good teacher but if a pupil strayed he would be doing a "chinese burn", or throwing the blackboard cleaner (a block of wood with chalk dust impregnated felt attached to it - left a mark on the target to indicate the accuracy of the aim) or attempting to strangle the pupil.

We had a maths teacher who was a crack shot with chalk, but every now and then he would up the ante by deploying the wooden blackboard cleaner. It hurt like hell, and heaven help you if you blubbed.  

Oh, and a headmaster whose favourite ploy was the death grip, where he'd go to shake your hand and once he had your hand in his, he would gradually crush it so you would end up writhing around on your knees begging for mercy.

Happy days.

Our woodwork teacher would hurl a marking out chisel (the big, heavy wooden thing) at you if he deemed your attitude needed adjusting in a way more to his liking.

I recall the other pupils being sadistic bullies* but the teachers were just too worn down to do anything!

Bruce (Shenfield Comprehensive boy and proud of it)

*one of whom has gone on to successfully play a series of bullies/thugs in various TV shows bizarrely.

A number of countries, such as Australia, make it compulsory for nationals to vote in general elections.

Surely the way forward for DT and the NRA is to make it compulsory for every US citizen (say over the age of 16) to own and carry a loaded gun. Then everyone will be absolutely safe, and the NRA will be happy.

A win-win situation if ever there was one.

It really beggars belief!

However, to be serious for a minute, I really have to commend the students who have appeared on television following the Florida shootings to very effectively protest about the lack of action in respect of gun control, and to name and shame politicians who are in hock to the NRA. It looks like their campaign might actually have some real impact on gun control debate in the US, and on the public support of the NRA by politicians.  

Hopefully, DT's anticipated approach (with the approval of the NRA - surprise, surprise) of simply 'arming the teachers) will be kicked into oblivion.   

The wooden framed blackboard rubber was an instrument of displeasure at my school too, as above dark blazers with chalk marks were a sign all was not well! - until the day one of the disciplinarian-inclined masters hit an open ink bottle on somebody's desk with one - the change in tenor & tone was amazing to see. Fair play in retrospect - said master said he would settle all bills (inc new white shirt) and was deeply apologetic. ...nowadays such an event would be bleated all over social media! 

Also, if your work wasn't up the scratch, your exercise book (as we had in those days), was often thrown at you from some way away - many books didn't survive the trip - kinda the point I suppose.

..and yet it was a cradle of learning.

Interesting how more guns are viewed as a defence against guns.

I know a gun can stop a bullet, but the chance of it happening is very low.  The only defence I know against guns (and, although an incomplete defence, is a LOT more reliable than a gun) is to wear body armour!

However, in the US, it's easy to get hold of weapons chambered for 5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51, so it needs to be NIJ class 5 (i.e. military spec body armour).

I went to a school where bullying was actually encouraged "to toughen us up", it wasn't confined to the pupils either the teachers participated in it as well.  Nor was it confined to physical abuse, psychological abuse was a particular speciality of some of the teachers.

Subsequently I have identified three who showed very strong psychopathic tendencies and another three distinct possibles.

I have to cope with dyslexia, ADHD and another relevant medical condition, these were exploited mercilessly by pupils and teachers alike.  The very real and substantial damage done by my "schooling" seriously compounded these issues, causing me many problems since.

Huge posted:

Interesting how more guns are viewed as a defence against guns.

I know a gun can stop a bullet, but the chance of it happening is very low.  The only defence I know against guns (and, although an incomplete defence, is a LOT more reliable than a gun) is to wear body armour!

However, in the US, it's easy to get hold of weapons chambered for 5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51, so it needs to be NIJ class 5 (i.e. military spec body armour).

Is it as easy to get and wear said body armour as it is to obtain an assault rifle?

No defence against a head shot.

JamieWednesday posted:

Is it as easy to get and wear said body armour as it is to obtain an assault rifle?

Get: yes (just a matter of cost).

Wear: no (it's heavy and somewhat awkward to wear).

Will janitors get trained  as well?

thebigfredc posted:

No defence against a head shot.

I did say "...although an incomplete defence..."

Happy Listener posted:

The wooden framed blackboard rubber was an instrument of displeasure at my school too, as above dark blazers with chalk marks were a sign all was not well! - until the day one of the disciplinarian-inclined masters hit an open ink bottle on somebody's desk with one - the change in tenor & tone was amazing to see. Fair play in retrospect - said master said he would settle all bills (inc new white shirt) and was deeply apologetic. ...nowadays such an event would be bleated all over social media! 

Also, if your work wasn't up the scratch, your exercise book (as we had in those days), was often thrown at you from some way away - many books didn't survive the trip - kinda the point I suppose.

..and yet it was a cradle of learning.

Chalk missile for minor inattention in class, blackboard duster missile for anyone talking or appearing to be looking at something hidden by the desk. Ears were convenient handles on pupils for steering to a place of either humiliation or ejection in the event of repeated transgression. And my secondary school was seemimgly more advanced than some, having a purpose made device called “the whack” instead of a cane, the inner stiffener said to be of sprung steel (was there really a manufacturer somewherer making these?) 

Today’s trials of teachers accused of physical abuse in the 70s and 80s were doing what was entirely normal in the 60s and earlier - doesn’t make it right, but that rather significant fact seems not to be recognised, at least not by the media reporting.

Whilst I do not advocate a return to barbarism, I do feel that the poor, and seemingly not uncommon complete absence of, discipline in many schools -and indeed homes- is not helpful to amyone, and some of society’s more negative traits today might be traceable to that.

However, that is digressing. Arming of teachers is probably not the best approach (unless with stun guns, which would have a useful function when it comes to unruly pupils...). I’m surprised the more obvious solution hasn’t been proposed, which would presumably have the fUll support of the gun lobby: arm the students. Start with compulsory target practice with airguns in kindegarden, small calibre pistols in infant school, large calibre pistols and rifles in middle school (subject to physical ability to remain holding the weapon pointing in roughly the right direction after firing), thereafter anything. There would be an argument for allowing lightweight automatic weapens for the younger children to increase the chance of hitting the target until they have mastered a reasonable degree of accuracy. Safety in school could be ensured by making it an offence to release the saftey catch without instruction by a teacher, punishable by extreme measures like banning of chewing of gum or eating burgers. 

(I can’t find an emoji for tonge in cheek, but instead for tge first time the exploding sausage seems to fit.)

My mistake Huge.

How on earth can the POTUS come out with a policy like "We need to train our teachers to be proficient at shoot-to-kill"?  And what is even more bewildering is that half of the country would appear to agree with him...

I agree with the earlier comment about the young people who have protested and forced this issue to be confronted by the politicians at the highest level.  They have been inspirational unlike many of their leaders, politicians, those with influence and authority who are failing their own people. So it is left to the young people to come forward and show them what genuine leadership, courage, wisdom and vulnerability look like.  The young people are holding up a mirror to their society and are forcing people to look at it full in the face.

Jim Jefferies is an Aussie comedian who does a 15 min set on gun control. If you have not seen this, check it out.
It is a MUST watch - search Jim Jefferies Gun Control on YouTube.

We used to get a might apprehensive catching a glipse of ‘the strap’ inside the teachers jacket. A Smith & Wesson is a whole different level of anxiety inducing machine.

What an idiot.

G

I generally feel uneasy about sticking my nose into another counties domestic policies, especially the US as there culture has come from a different place to ours and I have some understanding of the bearing of arms in a vast, frontier country.

I have been there many times and I really like the place and the people but I cannot get my head around the proliferation of firearms and their terrible consequences. DT's comments/solution beggars belief.