Supernait 2 vs Uniti Nova

Hungryhalibut posted:

I really wouldn’t be considering the Nova or the SuperNait to drive a pair of £9,000 speakers. You are far better getting more modest speakers and better electronics. 

I have the speakers. I have to choose a amplifire. Maybe i should go up to the NAP300 ?

If budget is not restricted I would say with mentioned Totem speakers, a minimum 282/250 plus a psu for the preamp needed.

You can offcourse go direct to 500 series or Statement

I'm sure you then, will not reimagine a Nova anytime soon

A cheaper solution albeit with lots of power is looking at the larger Hegel amplication, not as involving as a Naim but worth a listen if possible.

Naim/Focal were using a Nova to demo the £7k Kanta speakers at the Bristol Show. More suprisingly, Kudos were using a Nova to demonstrate their new 505s (also £7k ish) and have had very good reports on this forum - sounded great to me! 

On a factory visit I heard both Atom and Nova driving Focal Maestros (£30 ish!) - they sounded very good, the Nova being clearly better but the Atom sounded good. When a 272/250 was substituted it was again better but not as much as I expected. I haven't heard a SN2 against a Nova but I wouldn't rule either of them out for not being expensive enough!

It seems to me that the new streaming technology has kippered the mullet!

Sharon Kabir posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I really wouldn’t be considering the Nova or the SuperNait to drive a pair of £9,000 speakers. You are far better getting more modest speakers and better electronics. 

I have the speakers. I have to choose a amplifire. Maybe i should go up to the NAP300 ?

You really need to try some options at a Naim dealer. You can spend an awful lot of money trying to feed demanding speakers, and it’s simply not possible to choose by looking at specification sheets. What source are you thinking of - it’s not just about the amplifier. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I really wouldn’t be considering the Nova or the SuperNait to drive a pair of £9,000 speakers. You are far better getting more modest speakers and better electronics. 

To be honest, I have never been disappointed with the SN2 paired with any speaker, regardless of price, it punches way above it's weight, I'm not saying that it's not possible, I just have not experienced it.  I have never been disappointed with the 250 either. I don't have a lot of listening experience with the Nova, I haven't heard it with many speakers, the few speakers I did hear driven by the Nova, I wouldn't call it lacking, or being outclassed by the speakers in any way. Based on previous experience with 80 watt Naim amps, I would be pretty sure that I wouldn't be disappointed in its performance with higher cost speakers.

There may be some truth in the above statement that with $9,000 US dollar speakers, pairing it with a $6,000 dollar integrated, or a $7,000 dollar streamer integrated may not seem like a balanced system, I personally don't think the price difference is all that great, but having a bias based strictly on price "just because", could be a big and costly mistake. I think a blanket statement like this can be misleading to some. You, the OP, need to listen for yourself before taking such advice about the compatibility of amps and speakers based just on the retail price. There's always going to be something better, but, based on my own experiences, especially with Naim electronics, is that you need to spend quite a bit more to realize what I personally believe to be a marked or worthwhile improvement. 

All in my own opinion, of course.

Perol posted:

If budget is not restricted I would say with mentioned Totem speakers, a minimum 282/250 plus a psu for the preamp needed.

You can offcourse go direct to 500 series or Statement

I'm sure you then, will not reimagine a Nova anytime soon

A cheaper solution albeit with lots of power is looking at the larger Hegel amplication, not as involving as a Naim but worth a listen if possible.

Quite poor and Bad advice. Why look at Hegel ?

analogmusic posted:

Quite poor and Bad advice. Why look at Hegel ?

Maybe not so much Hegel per se, but a trial of hearing the Totems with higher powered amplification and lots of headroom on the amp makes sense to me. Krell comes to mind as another option.  The idea being to compare command of the speakers at say 200-watts of amplification versus 80-watts. Focus on how more power grips the speakers, rather than a specific brand's sonic signature. It could give some insight to an objective listener.

I think a nova will be fine 

If funds allow of course 272/250 Dr is a very serious system and will keep you happy for years. The nap 250 is a legendary amplifier known to be able to drive almost all speakers made. Other than a few speakers whose impedance drops below 2 ohms

 Krell is not engaging to my ears and I wasn’t impressed by it’s lack of musicality. Dull as dishwater to my ears

those speakers are not so demanding with average sensitivity and seems to be an 8 ohm load.

in the end speak to an experienced Naim dealer or Naim head office. 

I would also add a nap 250 300 and 500 are that rare and luxurious thing : a fully regulated amplifier. That’s basically 2 amplifiers in one box. That provides a lot more current and drive to the speaker compared-to conventional amplifiers. 

A good dealer will demonstrate this. 

joerand posted:

analogmusic posted:

Quite poor and Bad advice. Why look at Hegel ?

Maybe not so much Hegel per se, but a trial of hearing the Totems with higher powered amplification and lots of headroom on the amp makes sense to me. Krell comes to mind as another option.  The idea being to compare command of the speakers at say 200-watts of amplification versus 80-watts. Focus on how more power grips the speakers, rather than a specific brand's sonic signature. It could give some insight to an objective listener.

I may be wrong but think Totem flagship speakers are designed with Bryston or Boulder amplication

analogmusic posted:

Perol posted:

If budget is not restricted I would say with mentioned Totem speakers, a minimum 282/250 plus a psu for the preamp needed.

You can offcourse go direct to 500 series or Statement

I'm sure you then, will not reimagine a Nova anytime soon

A cheaper solution albeit with lots of power is looking at the larger Hegel amplication, not as involving as a Naim but worth a listen if possible.

Quite poor and Bad advice. Why look at Hegel ?

Guess what, I don't think its bad advice.

if the speakers really need watt power, no need to be a blind sheep, it hurts nobody (perhaps apart from AM) to go and listen to other brands, there are plenty of options out there

Why restrict choices ?

it isn't about the watts - it's about current. Otherwise Japanese amps which advertise 2000 watts would be all that we need.

Naim amps can pretty much handle 4 ohms and the amps like Nap 200 and 250 can handle difficult speaker dips to 2 ohms quite well.

Of course nothing wrong with listening to other brands.

Which I did for a long time before spending my hard earned cash with Naim.

Have to admit though my first audition with Naim almost 15 years ago now, I just knew I found what I was looking for.

The other brand auditions (no need to name and shame here) were just a confirmation to buy Naim.

analogmusic posted:

 

Why look at Hegel ?

Of course nothing wrong with listening to other brands.

 

Consensus eh ! 

Well the reason to do that is to validate that Naim indeed make the best amplifiers, period.

So perol, which hegel amplifier do you own?(or  I recall you use Naim yourself?)

or was it just useless advice?

That sounds unnecessarily aggressive to Perol, and it’s uncalled far. One simply can’t say that ‘Naim make the best amplifiers, period.’ That’s just blinkered. I’m sure there are lots of other makes out there, which may be better, worse, or simply different. One can take being a Naim sheep too far.  

analogmusic posted:

Well the reason to do that is to validate that Naim indeed make the best amplifiers, period.

So perol, which hegel amplifier do you own?(or  I recall you use Naim yourself?)

or was it just useless advice?

Referring to this and your previous post in which you (rightly IMHO) make the claim that current is very important (btw, so is the slew rate) the best sounding power amps that I have heard are made by Krell.

IMHO, Naim make very, very good power amps. The best one I have ever heard is the Statement. But Krell make even better ones.

And Wilson make incredible speakers.

Naim do make very good preamps, Even better than Krell.

The good thing is, that Naim preamps and Krell poweramps work exceedingly well together.

The key point here is to keep an open mind and recognise that different people have different tastes. There is no "one-solution-fits-all" even if Naim are very good and have a wide range available.

Musicality is something subjective. 

I have heard a number of powerful amplifiers that just don’t sound as musical to me as Naim

Sharon Kabir posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I really wouldn’t be considering the Nova or the SuperNait to drive a pair of £9,000 speakers. You are far better getting more modest speakers and better electronics. 

I have the speakers. I have to choose a amplifire. Maybe i should go up to the NAP300 ?

For those speakers, to make good use of their capabilities I would suggest at least 272/XPSDR + 250DR.  They would gain further benefit from going as far as 272/555DR + 300DR, but that's LOT more money.

analogmusic posted:

Well the reason to do that is to validate that Naim indeed make the best amplifiers, period.

So perol, which hegel amplifier do you own?(or  I recall you use Naim yourself?)

or was it just useless advice?

AM I don't bite on your sarcastic presumptions and noticed others do think you beeing unfair sheepish

As for advice or useless advice, thats entirely up to OP to judge

Sharon Kabir posted:

I just wanted to know the difference in sound quality between different configurations. For example: NAC272 + NAP250 / NOVA / SN2 /! It's not a matter of money or system configuration. I need to stream music from NAS , Internet or CD player. Previously I was thinking about NAC272 + NAP250
And then on UNITI NOVA. Now all the answers here confused me more. I am trying to understand the technical difference in the amplification of SN2 versus NOVA. Both seem to have the same inputs and amplification . Right now, I'm not referring to the issue of the streaming . Just sound quqlity

ok here's the difference

1) Nova is an all in one component, very good value for money

2) SN2 has DR regulation for the preamp section and about the same number of watts. But doesn't need to share the power supply with the streaming section. Sn2 is also upgradeable with a Hicap DR power supply, but nova preamp is not upgradeable.

As you got up the range, you get a lower noise floor, and more extended frequency extremes, plus more refinement resolution, dynamics.

3) 272/250 as I mentioned is a very serious system, and once you add something called XPS power supply to 272 (cost 3700 GBP) then 272/XPS/250 is a very complete Naim system for life.

I personally have a Chord Dave/282/HCDR/250 system with Dynaudio Focus 260 speaker, and it's a system for life (for me)

I've been accused of somewhat excessive enthusiasm for Naim, but I love music very much and love my Naim systems and enjoy them every spare moment that I can. 

Musicality is what it is about for me, not power, and getting the listener to a point of great enjoyment of the music is something very, very few hi-fi systems are capable of. Naim certainly is. 

I could not believe I'd get so complicated

The truth is that I do not know the quality companies of amplifiers. I am ashamed to ask this forum. Who are the competitors of NAIM . 

I don't think there are any.

Naim do what they do best - "Pace rhythm and timing" and are pretty unique.

It's not that complicated. It only seems so because there is a bit to learn about Naim. That's what the forum is there for, I spent years reading up on it and listening to all the Naim range at the same time. (well that's because I have been interested in hi-fi since the age of 12).

it's for me a fascinating hobby. 

If you can afford a 272/250DR, you won't regret it. 

And you really should visit a Naim dealer in the UK, that's where I assume you are based?

Here's one of the reasons (and there are many) why Naim is unique

So why do Naim prefer to use DIN connectors?

The obvious reason: DIN connections sound better than RCAs...

The phono plug, or RCA connector, as best as anyone can remember, was designed decades ago as a direct current (DC) power connector. Its design properties do not lend themselves to transferring music signals that have very low voltages (less Than 5 volts) of alternating current (AC). This is true - no matter how good the RCA plug is or whether it is made with gold, etc.

The first difficulty with the RCA connector is that it has a high-frequency capacitive impedance of around 200 ohms; unfortunately, the typical cable that connects the two RCA plugs together has an impedance of about 50 ohms. In this situation, the two RCA connectors on either end of the cable act as reflective walls at higher frequencies and bounce information back and forth, trapping the signal and extending the decay time of the signal that is trying to pass from one component to the other. These reflections have an effect on musical information and are especially harmful to low-level signals, particularly quiet harmonics and underlying instruments, where the ringing that is generated by the loudest instruments will smear the smallest signals. The result is that the quiet instruments will blur or fade away when the loud ones come along. The complexities of the music and the tones of individual instruments get lost.

The DIN plug has an impedance that is similar to the cable. It does not reflect like an RCA plug.

Furthermore, the system ground (which should be a stable connection point to which all signals and power supplies are referenced) is absolutely critical to the sonic performance of your hi-fi. A single reference ground point is important so that signal details are not lost in the small, yet significant voltage differences inevitable with separated ground paths.

Many manufacturers point to the great trouble they take to "star ground" everything. Sadly, this is all wasted when you connect your system together with RCA-plugged cables. Why?

When you connect, for instance, a CD player to a preamp with RCA-plugged cable, you automatically have two separate ground wires - the left and right shields going between them. This creates a ground loop, which degrades the musical performance dramatically, and negates any efforts that were taken to ground the internal circuits properly.

If you were to connect these same two components together with DIN-plugged Naim interconnects, you would have only ONE cable with only ONE ground shield surrounding both the left and right signal wires. Hence, only one ground path for each connection and no ground loop.

Sharon Kabir posted:

I could not believe I'd get so complicated

The truth is that I do not know the quality companies of amplifiers. I am ashamed to ask this forum. Who are the competitors of NAIM . 

I haven’t found any, for my particular requirements.  You can find fault with anybody’s products, even Naim’s.  For me, the have a “just right” answer for all of my desires, which include sound quality, form factor, modular rack options, integration with my whole-house system, manufacturer and dealer support, and a rich second-hand market, among others.  Thi forum helps the priducts a lot, too.

Nick

Naim is for me the hi-fi that is "foot tapping". It has a particular ability to not smear/ruin the rhythms in music.

And until you hear a Naim rig, basically what this means is that it is pretty damn close to a live band performance 

analogmusic posted:

Naim is for me the hi-fi that is "foot tapping". It has a particular ability to not smear/ruin the rhythms in music.

And until you hear a Naim rig, basically what this means is that it is pretty damn close to a live band performance 

Have you ever listened to a Chord Amp?