272/XPSDR vs CDS3/282

I have heard both, albeit not back to back, and from memory I would say the CDS3/282 is more to my liking.

Ray

I had CDS3/252 and now 272/XPSDR. Very alike to my mind. The convenience of streaming won me over.

G

Thanks both.

@Graemeh - I’m surprised that a CDS3/252 could sound similar to a 272/XPSDR but if that’s how you recall it then fair enough.

I guess I mean in terms of how satisfied I am with the quality of replay. The 272/XPSDR/250DR is really well musically balanced - like it was all designed to work together.

G

Got it. I agree with that. I’m pondering whether to move to a separate preamp / source or to stick with 272 based system and upgrade from 250DR to 300DR.

It’s a tricky one. I’ve always loved the CDS3 and but I’d be losing the convenience of streaming etc. As good as the 272 sounds I can’t help feeling it’s a compromise.

Hi the 272 is a very good performing pre amp - however you must get a separate PSU - get a second hand 555ps it makes an astounding difference.... its not far off a 282 - and sonically -  presentation wise it lies between 282 and 252. I used it for a while with a Nap500 and it sounded excellent. One area it does lack .. it has no circuit board suspension and it needs a good table/support....otherwise you get feedback of sorts when you turn the wick up....

As comparing the real thing to a mere reproduction.

I may be wrong ,though

It's been ten (?) years I heard a CDS3 and there was a 252 paired with.

If you fancy a trip to the south coast you can hear my SL2s with the 555 and 300 in place. That should give an idea of what the 272 is capable of, before risking spending money. If you want better than a 272 an NDS would be the logical way to go, but then you need a preamp, which is two more boxes.....

Very kind Nigel. I’ll bare that in mind. Tell me, which did you upgrade first; the amp or the PS?

The power supply, with the amp a week later, so at the same time really. The 300 is the amp that the SL2s really need to come to life, but of course the system really benefits from the source first approach. I’d say that the uplift from going to the 555PS DR from an XPS DR exceeds that from adding the XPS DR to the bare 272. I was very surprised by how good the 272 can actually be. 

See my profile.   I’ve heard the 272/250 pairings on several occasions - no way would I swap but my ears, my opinion.  I’ve also heard NDX/XPS/282HC/250 vs 272/XPS/250 and again the former is a far more musically satisfying configuration.   

Regards,

Lindsay

Hungryhalibut posted:

The power supply, with the amp a week later, so at the same time really. The 300 is the amp that the SL2s really need to come to life, but of course the system really benefits from the source first approach. I’d say that the uplift from going to the 555PS DR from an XPS DR exceeds that from adding the XPS DR to the bare 272. I was very surprised by how good the 272 can actually be. 

Thanks Nigel. I would not do both now, just one with the other to follow maybe next year.  I have been offered a good deal on a nearly new 300DR as a trade in against my 250DR so am minded to do that. If I do then I’m pretty sure the 272 source with XPS DR in place is more than adequate but I’m sure you’ll correct me if you think I’m wrong.

Hi S3,

I've heard a 272/XPSDR/300DR and thought it wonderful.  The switch from 250DR to 300DR was for me the difference between a great hifi (250) and effortless, insightful, engrossing music (300DR).  So if you have been offered a great deal, go for it without regret.

Equally, the 555PS is a bit special on a 272, so you can't lose really.

I personally found the CDS3/XPS to be a bit too polite for my taste, though many others adore its presentation.  I found the CDS3/555PS to be sublime (which is how I ended up with one!)

Best regards, FT

Foot tapper posted:

Hi S3,

I've heard a 272/XPSDR/300DR and thought it wonderful.  The switch from 250DR to 300DR was for me the difference between a great hifi (250) and effortless, insightful, engrossing music (300DR).  So if you have been offered a great deal, go for it without regret.

Equally, the 555PS is a bit special on a 272, so you can't lose really.

I personally found the CDS3/XPS to be a bit too polite for my taste, though many others adore its presentation.  I found the CDS3/555PS to be sublime (which is how I ended up with one!)

Best regards, FT

Thanks FT for that insight.

Be warned the 555 is a paradigm shift whatever it’s added to BUT it weighs about the equivalent of an elephant

Of course If the comparison involves the 555PS on the 272 it would only be fair to put the same on the CDS3!

Clive

I’ve placed an order for the 300DR. Will update when it’s in place.

The 300DR has been running in for 48 hours now. Out of the box it was certainly different to the 250DR although hard to say it was “better”. The SL2s seemed to be receptive. I now understand this concept of the speakers sounding “bigger”. Yesterday was spent juggling the placement of boxes to try to find the optimal configuration so powering down and up again a couple of time can’t have helped performance.

I’ve settled on:

left stack (from top down):

RP8

300DR

Aria & Neo 

right stack (from top down):

272

300PS

XPSDR

I’ve left the system running quietly constantly and came to have a listen after lunch today.

Wow. Wow. Wow. This is sounding seriously impressive. Bass so tight, the flow of the music so natural and unrestrained. I’m being drawn in like I have have before.

The exciting thing is I know that things will likely improve from here as time goes on although it’s hard to see how it can.

I was toying with moving to a separate preamp and streamer but, with all of the boxes that entails, I’m pleased that I kept faith in the 272 based system and am now starting to appreciate what it’s capable of.

S3 posted:

Got it. I agree with that. I’m pondering whether to move to a separate preamp / source or to stick with 272 based system and upgrade from 250DR to 300DR.

It’s a tricky one. I’ve always loved the CDS3 and but I’d be losing the convenience of streaming etc. As good as the 272 sounds I can’t help feeling it’s a compromise.

don’t sell your cds3, you will regret. Or buy a second hand nds to have a similar pleasure. The 272 is the nd5xs streamer with 282 preamp, not the same league as cds3.  272/ 555 dr is better but not the wonderful musicality of the cds3/xps2. For me, at least.  But it is not night and day....

French Rooster posted:

S3 posted:

Got it. I agree with that. I’m pondering whether to move to a separate preamp / source or to stick with 272 based system and upgrade from 250DR to 300DR.

It’s a tricky one. I’ve always loved the CDS3 and but I’d be losing the convenience of streaming etc. As good as the 272 sounds I can’t help feeling it’s a compromise.

don’t sell your cds3, you will regret. Or buy a second hand nds to have a similar pleasure. The 272 is the nd5xs streamer with 282 preamp, not the same league as cds3.  272/ 555 dr is better but not the wonderful musicality of the cds3/xps2. For me, at least.  But it is not night and day....

Thanks French Rooster. I don’t own a CDS3 so nothing to sell on that front. My 272 / XPSDR is a very fine source and there is much to be said for the advantages of avoiding adding at least 3 more boxes, which is what would be required if I went CDS3, preamp and PS. I’m therefore sticking with the 272 based system which, with PS and amplification upgrades, is capable of very special things.

French Rooster posted:

S3 posted:

 

don’t sell your cds3, you will regret. Or buy a second hand nds to have a similar pleasure. The 272 is the nd5xs streamer with 282 preamp, not the same league as cds3.  272/ 555 dr is better but not the wonderful musicality of the cds3/xps2. For me, at least.  But it is not night and day....

I would say the 272 is more like a 202/ND5XS of course you could buy a £7,000 PSU to improve it or just swallow your pride and buy NDX/XPSDR/282.

French Rooster posted:

S3 posted:

Got it. I agree with that. I’m pondering whether to move to a separate preamp / source or to stick with 272 based system and upgrade from 250DR to 300DR.

It’s a tricky one. I’ve always loved the CDS3 and but I’d be losing the convenience of streaming etc. As good as the 272 sounds I can’t help feeling it’s a compromise.

don’t sell your cds3, you will regret. Or buy a second hand nds to have a similar pleasure. The 272 is the nd5xs streamer with 282 preamp, not the same league as cds3.  272/ 555 dr is better but not the wonderful musicality of the cds3/xps2. For me, at least.  But it is not night and day....

For info, Naim and dealers have verified that the 272 is based on the design principles of a 282. However, if definitely not a 282. A 282 a different line of PSUs, which was s the biggest clue.

Okay I’m going to attempt to nail this 282 vs 272 issue.  Certainly the 272 pre stage similar to the SN shares some of the design principles of the 282 and I’ll say what I’ve said many times before as good as it is, and it is very good, the 272 is not close to the level of performance that a 282 provides. It couldn’t be for the reason already stated - it has a completely different PSU configuration.  

But recent first hand experience.  As documented elsewhere I’ve ordered a Sc for my 282.  At a demo the dealer configured a Linn LP12/Urika (I think)282 first with HC then SC. Discussion turned to the 272 and by chance there was a 272 and said dealer wired up with a 555.  

We listened to the Famous Blue Raincoat title track on the LP12 first through the 282/Sc and then the 272/555:  Sorry guys not close, more dynamics, very significantly larger soundstage, better defined bass (superb double bass on that track, but most the textures on Jennifer’s voice and the sax were several jumps ahead.   

So as an integrated steamer/control amp the 272 is very very good, but as a dedicated pre it’s not on the same level.   And in the words of Paul Simon “the answer is easy if you take it logically” as soon as the digital architecture is put in the same box as that of the pre amp no matter how clever the design compromises are inevitable.  

Regards,

Lindsay 

Agreed. I’m not sure why anyone would seriously argue that the preamp section of the 272 is on a par with the 282. How can it be? The entire 272 (pre, streamer, DAC, power supply) is over £1k less than the 282. One thing I’ve learned with Naim is that there is a pretty reliable correlation between price and performance. 

The 272 is a brilliant solution which meets the needs of many many Naim customers who don’t wish or can’t afford to have multiple black boxes in their living rooms. I own one for that reason but I’d never try to argue that it’s comparable to a dedicated 282.

I think guys sometimes get caught up in the euthoria of a newer product and get a bit carried away in their enthusiasm.  I’m as guilty as the next.  

Similar debate takes place over 252 vs 282.   Easy to say that because I own a 282 its performance is close or even perhaps preferable to the 252 - it most definitely is not. 

Regards,

Lindsay