Final Turntable - RP10/Apheta 2 vs LP12 Majik

Mr Frog,

The phrase 'final solution' has been used in very sinister circumstances historically. 

Of course we all think playback of our music is important but really to use it in relation to hifi seems in my opinion at least to demean what so many experienced in the Holocaust.

Ray

Hi Ray

I’m not sure how or why you appear to have taken offence to the wording of my post.

You have sadly taken this completely out of context and misinterpreted what I wrote.

The ‘final solution’ to my vinyl needs ..... and absolutely no links or references to what you have inferred.

There are final solutions to everything in life and these have nothing whatsoever, to do with any horrific events of the past.

I invite you to again read what I wrote and I think you may understand its true intent has nothing at all to do with your concerns.

thebigfredc posted:

Mr Frog,

The phrase 'final solution' has been used in very sinister circumstances historically. 

Of course we all think playback of our music is important but really to use it in relation to hifi seems in my opinion at least to demean what so many experienced in the Holocaust.

Ray

I would never have connected Mr Frog’s use of the term with that until you pointed it out Ray. 

I am intrigued by all the focus on the turntable with so little attention to the cartridge.

Mr Frog posted:

Thanks everyone for all the awesome and highly useful responses ... much appreciated!

The Rega seems to be the ‘final solution’ for my vinyl needs ..... unless I’m prepared to upgrade parts of the Majik LP12 .... which doesn’t appeal (having been disappointed when I compared it to the far more expensive Akurate level .... certainly not night and day improvement for huge costs!)

I’m still perplexed as to why the Linn dealer maintains that the Majik version (in its basic form) will still easily outperform the RP10?

The fact that he won’t offer a side by side listening comparison, probably speaks volumes. But it caused me some self doubt, that I might be missing something.

Based on the responses to my post, I think not .... unless we are all missing something ????

I also considered the VPI Prime, which gets rave reviews. Unfortunately, the only dealer here in NZ, doesn’t even have a demo room .... so I would literally be buying something purely based on reviews .... not recommended without any audition at all.

 

i have never, in 20 years, met a dealer who  said that some components he has not  for selling  are better than the components he is selling,  never.   The dealers are always saying that the gear they are selling is the best on the market.

My main dealer, 15 years ago, said to me that the rega p9 was the best turntable in the world !   even vs the big clearaudios, vpi, and other more than 30k turntables. He was only selling rega turntables at that time.

Linn dealer in Paris was always saying that the lp12 are the best turntables in the world, and far better than top rega....

The day i heard the Verdier la Platine, the clearaudio master reference and my own sme20, i discovered all the nonsense and stupid statements these  dealers were saying.

It is like going to a fiat punto dealer who will say that fiat cars are the best in the world!

the vpi prime signature is on the level of linn lp12/ ekos/ lingo and rega rp10. The sound of the prime has more body and bass vs the rega, but the rega has more prat.   The rega is leaner sound vs the linn, the linn is softer and more gentle.  These differences are minimal, these 3 turntables are playing in the same category.

I prefer the vpi vs the rega, but the problem with the vpi is the same as with the linn:  a lot of possible upgrades :  vpi sds controller ( 1k), better vpi arm, peripherical ring,  and so one...

My dealer have vpi, rega and feickert turntables, i could compare.   I have the main linn dealer also in Paris.

Mr Frog

As a Rega dealer (not Linn sorry), my advice would be to try and look at your decision from a long term perspective. If as you say, you want this to be a final turntable purchase and your ears are telling you the 10 is a step up from the 8 then I would say go for the 10 if your budget allows. The extra cost now will be forgotten in a few weeks/months, but the better sound will be there for years to come. I would say the same regardless of the brand. Buy the one that connects you to the music if you can afford it.

I appreciate your frustration of not being able to demo Rega and Linn side by side, but as you know our customer pool here in New Zealand is so small it's just not viable from a business perspective. Most stores here, even in the larger cities will only have a couple of turntable brands. In my store I can really only justify stocking up to the RP6. Such is the disadvantage of being in a small town.

Because of the limited amount of stores in little ol' NZ, it's important to find a dealer that can give you the best service, with a good demo and backup when required. The stores that SteveJansen mentions in his post are all top guys and we all know each other well. I'd like to make a special shout out to John at Shore Hi-Fi as probably the most knowledgable of us all regarding turntable setup and service. Age has some benefits..

Good luck on your quest.

Ricky.

Having switched from a rega 3 to lp12 many years ago,I would suggest going with the rega 10 if you are already happy with the sound.The nagging doubt that one is better than the other is not enough to offset that you already like the sound of the rp 10. Although dealers are more readily available here in the U.S.,it is still getting increasingly difficult to have the lp 12 serviced properly,and expensive,even though mine does go a long while between needing service. I'm also partially disabled now so my taking it for service is not feasible. I would rather have a very good low maintenance tt,than one with marginally better sound (and only upon direct comparison). I'm not saying the lp 12 would or would not be your preference - from the sound alone,but low maintenance should definitely be part of the equation. If you do decide on the rp 10- maybe we could trade *L* (just kidding). I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

Got my RP-10 shortly after they came out. Second iteration of the Apheta 1. The very 1st iteration Apheta was a disaster. I've side by side my cuz's 10 with the Apheta 2 and mine and the A2 definitely a little smoother in his 845 single ended Line Magnetic system. Both use the Rega Aria phono amp. I was a fully decked out LP-12 owner back in the day. One day it sounded great and the next crap. If you like to reset everything every time the weather changes go Linn. Set, forget and enjoy go RP-10. You will not regret. Truly awesome table.

Mackb3 .... you may have a point!

It’s very humid here in Auckland and in winter, the overnight temperatures can plummet... followed by warm days!

Often lots of rain too and frequent use of dehumidifiers to reduce inside humidity, probably suggests very changeable weather conditions and perhaps leading to an unstable Linn ???? .... so I guess RP10 may be more stable here in NZ????

There is no final in Hifi or any hobby in todays world,  soon the new Rega RP10 ( or 11 dont know ) will arrive and you will read the forums and reviews how good it is vs the old one, it will be revolutionary new damping etc....  and then you will start to itch...

and i strongly suspect that RP10 is on its way of upgrade, just fallowing  the trend of lower end Rega decks.... will it be one year or two, only rega can tell but soon enough...

My final turntable might be A Kronos Sparta, but it is hard to finalize the payment at the moment  

Mr Frog posted:

Hi Ray

I’m not sure how or why you appear to have taken offence to the wording of my post.

You have sadly taken this completely out of context and misinterpreted what I wrote.

The ‘final solution’ to my vinyl needs ..... and absolutely no links or references to what you have inferred.

There are final solutions to everything in life and these have nothing whatsoever, to do with any horrific events of the past.

I invite you to again read what I wrote and I think you may understand its true intent has nothing at all to do with your concerns.

Hi Mr Frog,

I wasn't offended by your post at all.

I recognise it was about acquiring the right turntable for you to bring you to a kind of analogue end game and it had nothing at all to do with the WW2 genocide perpetrated by the Germans and assisted by others, such as the Facist authorities in Budapest and Paris for example.

But you did you use the words the final solution to express this objective and that phrase really is only redolent of the Holocaust. If you don't believe me put it into a search engine and see what it comes up with. You putting it in quotation marks probably made me even more aware of its historical,  sinister usage.

Ray

A word of moderation here:  Yes, the choice of phrase was unfortunate, coming as it does with such a horrific association.  However, I think it's clear that no offence was mean't by it and that it is what it is - an unfortunate choice of phrase.  I don't think it serves anybody to linger on this - as far as this thread is concerned, it's time to move on.

I was in the market for a final turntable a couple of years ago and compared the SME 20 with the NA Dais. There was not much in it. I liked the idea of fit and forget, and I am sure that if you like the Rega RP10 you should go for it.

I agree that after a few months you forget the painful cost! Also I think it is wise to go for top of the range rather than easily upgradeable, although this may run counter to Naim philosophy!

In my humble opinion I would not base any objective considerations on the opinion of the company that is selling the equipment: it could be construed as immediately biased to consider one "own's" equipment to be superior to that of a competitor. Each piece of equipment has its own appeal: people would not be buying the said equipment if it was considered to be absolutely 'appalling' to their humble ears. 

It's any icy day here in the UK: there are many automobile incidents, people slipping on the ice etc and it could be a reflection of a few 'poorly' chosen words. I consider Ray's comment to be a descriptive comparison: I personally thought that it was brilliant use of prose. There is an element of misinterpretation but this should not derail the efforts of the contributors. I am personally learning a lot about turntables under the supervision of a polite OP. I for one would be sad if this thread did not continue. The weather is out of the ordinary today in the UK. Please do not let the Beast from the East consume us by causing unnecessary delay and irritation.

I walked into the local store today where there was a comparison of a Majik and RP10. I only caught two tracks, the amp not known, the speakers B&W, the set up placed the listening position a few feet from the speakers.

Despite owning an LP12, today my vote goes to Rega

Emre posted:

There is no final in Hifi or any hobby in todays world,  soon the new Rega RP10 ( or 11 dont know ) will arrive and you will read the forums and reviews how good it is vs the old one, it will be revolutionary new damping etc....  and then you will start to itch...

and i strongly suspect that RP10 is on its way of upgrade, just fallowing  the trend of lower end Rega decks.... will it be one year or two, only rega can tell but soon enough...

My final turntable might be A Kronos Sparta, but it is hard to finalize the payment at the moment  

hey Emre, i am curious to know why your preference goes to the sparta.  Why not vertere, sme30/2, avid acutus se, kuzma xl, or vpi avenger reference ?

notnaim man posted:

I walked into the local store today where there was a comparison of a Majik and RP10. I only caught two tracks, the amp not known, the speakers B&W, the set up placed the listening position a few feet from the speakers.

Despite owning an LP12, today my vote goes to Rega

Thank you ... that really helps and I appreciate you taking the time to post your findings.  ????

Minh Nguyen posted:

In my humble opinion I would not base any objective considerations on the opinion of the company that is selling the equipment: it could be construed as immediately biased to consider one "own's" equipment to be superior to that of a competitor. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree but would add to that statement owners of said equipment. 

Bob the Builder posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

In my humble opinion I would not base any objective considerations on the opinion of the company that is selling the equipment: it could be construed as immediately biased to consider one "own's" equipment to be superior to that of a competitor. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree but would add to that statement owners of said equipment. 

May I add that there are some owners of said equipment that give unbiased reviews without the hyperbole. I have valued their honest opinions on several occasions and I subsequently decide for myself. Sometimes it it is much easier to ask a member for their honesty because it saves a lot of time. For example, I may ask member XYZ, would you consider it is worthwhile me having an audition? In your honest opinion, did component ABC complement your system? Etcetera. There is the possibility that they may introduce an element of bias, but this is eliminated through a process of using my own ears to make the final decision.  For example member XYZ may consider that their Porsche may float my boat but I may find that the Tesla is more to my liking. 

French Rooster posted:

Emre posted:

There is no final in Hifi or any hobby in todays world,  soon the new Rega RP10 ( or 11 dont know ) will arrive and you will read the forums and reviews how good it is vs the old one, it will be revolutionary new damping etc....  and then you will start to itch...

and i strongly suspect that RP10 is on its way of upgrade, just fallowing  the trend of lower end Rega decks.... will it be one year or two, only rega can tell but soon enough...

My final turntable might be A Kronos Sparta, but it is hard to finalize the payment at the moment  

hey Emre, i am curious to know why your preference goes to the sparta.  Why not vertere, sme30/2, avid acutus se, kuzma xl, or vpi avenger reference ?

I heard Sparta! It was wantastic, I like the engeenering and the look as well...

you can buy it as Sparta 0,5 and then upgrade, what else you want... 

I'm sure I wrote in a previous thread that I home demoed the RP10 against the Linn Majik in its basic form. Yes it was nice and if you'd heard no other turntable you'd have been quite happy with it. But the RP 10 is in a different league at similar prices. I'm sure the Linn would eventually beat it but God knows how much you'd pay and how many upgrades you'd do to get to that level.

Suffice to say, I bought the RP10 and absolutely love it. Do the same Mr Frog - you won't regret it. 

andykram posted:

I'm sure I wrote in a previous thread that I home demoed the RP10 against the Linn Majik in its basic form. Yes it was nice and if you'd heard no other turntable you'd have been quite happy with it. But the RP 10 is in a different league at similar prices. I'm sure the Linn would eventually beat it but God knows how much you'd pay and how many upgrades you'd do to get to that level.

Suffice to say, I bought the RP10 and absolutely love it. Do the same Mr Frog - you won't regret it. 

Hey Andy

Thanks for such a valuable contribution, it genuinely helps.

The fact that a demo in your own home, showed the RP10 was superior to the Majik, effectively confirms everything for me.

You’ve actually undertaken the listening comparison for me! ...... which unfortunately, is not available to me here in NZ.

The RP10/Apheta 2, should go nicely with my Aria phono stage and active ATC system (SCA 2 pre and ATC40A’s). As such, I consider it to be the best final turntable solution ????

Any future upgrades, will now be focused on the digital Naim side of things .... though the ND5xs with the Chord Hugo DAC, still sounds pretty awesome to me....... I’m hoping that the NDX2 will be a huge improvement.

Thanks again ... much appreciated ????

imagine how much more confusing it's going to be when rega puts out an RP12

Not really .... I guess it will be crazy money! ????