Problem with my NDS being recognised by Naim app

So Phil - I decided after more issues to self help and ignore you to some extent, queue slice of humble pie???????????? later for you (if we ever meet)

In another thread a member mentioned static IP again, so I thought why not I'm about to power cycle, so unintalled app from iPad, Samsung mobile and tablet (gosh Naim app reviews in the Apple and Google app stores are dire), consulted the Oracle Google and setup my Nova with a static IP, at first another flake out, so another power cycle.

But a good day on and many hours listening just to Tidal, purposefully sometimes flip flopping quickly to get the app to flake out (I did not), so today I decided to test it moreso, with all 3 devices flip flopping between devices, then inputs (Spotify Connect and Radio), however much very quick flip flopping I did, Nova was solid and never a single artwork issue. 

Usually my Nova would flake out with very simple playlist changes IN tidal,flip flopping sources I would avoid as was sure to cause flake out freeze and power cycle.

Sidebar whinge, Spotify native is so cool, as the basic info is on the lockscreen, perfect as most the time I just want to skip tracks, or pause, now if it was lossless ????

So I guess I owe you an apology ????☹ but I still insist most users including me would not venture to such fixes, if it really is the cause then can't we just advise folk with some instructions ... 

Sods law after writing this the Nova will flake out ????

He is still digging his TVR from out of the snow......should be drivable by Monday.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Richard... some good pointers above, but the behaviour you describe is not unusual in some home network setups and simply switching devices on and off may alleviate in the short term but not resolves and is simply masking an underlying fault. The discovery method for UPnP (and other services) requires compliant network equipment that handles something called multicast IP addresses. These IP addresses needs to be handled in a specific way otherwise things like discovery won’t work or work reliably. Therefore

First ensure you are using Ethernet or Wifi and not consumer workarounds like mains powerline adapters and the like. BTW Cat 4, 5 and 5e are entirely fine for most home networks, especially for audio use... you don’t need exotic/more expensive  Cat 6 or higher specification cables

If the above is the case, the next step, if you have one, is to look at the combined Wifi access point/broadband router.... see if there is a setting called ‘IGMP snooping’ on its setup interface... if so try disabling it.

if there is no setting, or seems to make no difference, it may be your home broadband router/Wifi access point is having multicast issues.. the next thing to try is get a small separate switch like a used Cisco 2960, or a little cheap Netgear, and connect back to your router. Connect  your NAS and Streamer to this switch, and then importantly get a new Wifi access point. The Ubiquiti range are ideal.. plug this into the switch as well. Create a new SSID on it just for your audio and iPad running the Naim app though you can replace your old SSID with it  and iPad running your Naim app. You will almost certainly now have reliable discovery and more effective operation. This will probably apply to home automation, UPnP and AirPlay as well.

Hi Simon,

I've had a look at the Ubiquiti range, which model Wifi access point did you go for? I do n't have too many problems since I split the bands on my Hub6 but if a Wifi access point will make it more reliable I'd like to give one a go. My Cisco switch is not POE, I assume its best to plug the Wifi access point into a power supply away from the Naim spur?

Thanks as always for your guidance.

Gazza posted:

He is still digging his TVR from out of the snow......should be drivable by Monday.

Hi Gazza,

I left the office at 2pm on Thursday and got home at 7:30pm ... five and a half hours to do a journey I can normally do in an hour.

At least I can take some comfort in that if I'd left it another 30 minutes or so I probably would have been sleeping the night in the car as one of the roads I go back on was closed very shortly after I got through it and another simply became impassable.

A few of my fellow loons in the noisy canoe fraternity were out in them though!

Phil

Obsydian posted:

So Phil - I decided after more issues to self help and ignore you to some extent, queue slice of humble pie???????????? later for you (if we ever meet)

In another thread a member mentioned static IP again, so I thought why not I'm about to power cycle, so unintalled app from iPad, Samsung mobile and tablet (gosh Naim app reviews in the Apple and Google app stores are dire), consulted the Oracle Google and setup my Nova with a static IP, at first another flake out, so another power cycle.

But a good day on and many hours listening just to Tidal, purposefully sometimes flip flopping quickly to get the app to flake out (I did not), so today I decided to test it moreso, with all 3 devices flip flopping between devices, then inputs (Spotify Connect and Radio), however much very quick flip flopping I did, Nova was solid and never a single artwork issue. 

Usually my Nova would flake out with very simple playlist changes IN tidal,flip flopping sources I would avoid as was sure to cause flake out freeze and power cycle.

Sidebar whinge, Spotify native is so cool, as the basic info is on the lockscreen, perfect as most the time I just want to skip tracks, or pause, now if it was lossless ????

So I guess I owe you an apology ????☹ but I still insist most users including me would not venture to such fixes, if it really is the cause then can't we just advise folk with some instructions ... 

Sods law after writing this the Nova will flake out ????

Hi Obsydian,

I'm glad that you've been able to get some stability into your setup and that you see that there is more coming into play than you thought but setting static IP addresses on kit is not fixing the underlying issues, just working round them and ideally you do want to make everything work properly and it be seamless as it should be.

I assure you that Naim kit definitely doesn't need any thing "special" to work on ... I had a dealer event that I went to one evening recently and the dealer told me that none of their streaming kit (not just Naim but other manufacturers) was reliable and that they frequently had to abandon or cancel demos when they couldn't get kit working. I tried to explain what the issues were likely to be and I could see him glazing over so I just said "Will you just trust me to fix it?" and popped over to the nearest Argos, picked up a router for under £20 and set it up in his shop uplinked to his shop network for internet access and everything worked perfectly - our kit and others - as soon as they were moved onto that network.

There is no need to go to "Prosumer" or "Enterprise" grade network hardware (there's no harm in doing so other than the kit tends to give you such configurability that it can scare the hell out of your average Joe) to get things working correctly - and it doesn't need kit that has any special functionality - it just needs to work properly.

As for instruction ... I did documents over the years (that have been posted up on here too) that I send out to anyone that contacts us for help and this does always resolve these kinds of problems... (I'll add them on here if anyone wants to have a read.)

Cheers

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Gazza posted:

He is still digging his TVR from out of the snow......should be drivable by Monday.

Hi Gazza,

I left the office at 2pm on Thursday and got home at 7:30pm ... five and a half hours to do a journey I can normally do in an hour.

At least I can take some comfort in that if I'd left it another 30 minutes or so I probably would have been sleeping the night in the car as one of the roads I go back on was closed very shortly after I got through it and another simply became impassable.

A few of my fellow loons in the noisy canoe fraternity were out in them though!

Phil

Oh sorry, we had snow here up in Colchester had to abort one trip due to road conditions, sounds like you got hammered. Sleeping in the car would not have been a great start to the weekend.

Peter1480 posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Richard... some good pointers above, but the behaviour you describe is not unusual in some home network setups and simply switching devices on and off may alleviate in the short term but not resolves and is simply masking an underlying fault. The discovery method for UPnP (and other services) requires compliant network equipment that handles something called multicast IP addresses. These IP addresses needs to be handled in a specific way otherwise things like discovery won’t work or work reliably. Therefore

First ensure you are using Ethernet or Wifi and not consumer workarounds like mains powerline adapters and the like. BTW Cat 4, 5 and 5e are entirely fine for most home networks, especially for audio use... you don’t need exotic/more expensive  Cat 6 or higher specification cables

If the above is the case, the next step, if you have one, is to look at the combined Wifi access point/broadband router.... see if there is a setting called ‘IGMP snooping’ on its setup interface... if so try disabling it.

if there is no setting, or seems to make no difference, it may be your home broadband router/Wifi access point is having multicast issues.. the next thing to try is get a small separate switch like a used Cisco 2960, or a little cheap Netgear, and connect back to your router. Connect  your NAS and Streamer to this switch, and then importantly get a new Wifi access point. The Ubiquiti range are ideal.. plug this into the switch as well. Create a new SSID on it just for your audio and iPad running the Naim app though you can replace your old SSID with it  and iPad running your Naim app. You will almost certainly now have reliable discovery and more effective operation. This will probably apply to home automation, UPnP and AirPlay as well.

Hi Simon,

I've had a look at the Ubiquiti range, which model Wifi access point did you go for? I do n't have too many problems since I split the bands on my Hub6 but if a Wifi access point will make it more reliable I'd like to give one a go. My Cisco switch is not POE, I assume its best to plug the Wifi access point into a power supply away from the Naim spur?

Thanks as always for your guidance.

Hi Guys,

The Ubiquiti stuff is great (I use it myself at home) but remember that you don't *NEED* to go to that level of kit and the stuff can be quite scary to configure for your average man-on-the-street ...

You can "fix" these issues without going anywhere other than Argos or PC World and without spending a fortune ... When we do shows and events then we typically use consumer grade LinkSys or NetGear kit and I've used TP Link too but models have such a limited lifespan (maybe a couple of years before they're replaced with something new) that we can't keep testing new units as they come out - again though anything that works *PROPERLY* will be fine.

I've used LinkSys EA6300 and EA7500 routers myself and they've been fine, I've used the TP Link TL-WR841N (which was under £20 but I believe is now discontinued) to fix issues with dealer networks and I've popped some support documents onto one of my replies above that should hopefully give some guidance too.

Cheers

Phil

Gazza posted:

Oh sorry, we had snow here up in Colchester had to abort one trip due to road conditions, sounds like you got hammered. Sleeping in the car would not have been a great start to the weekend.

It was really weird ... I'm stubbornly a Yorkshireman and so as far as I'm concerned the conditions themselves weren't actually *THAT* bad but just due to the volume of traffic and a general overall inability to deal with unexpectedly adverse conditions when vehicle driver aids become driver hinderances things turned bad very quickly. The number of rear wheel drive cars that I saw going sideways was really suprising and a lot of issues could be eaily got round by fully switching off ESP / Traction Control and just being gentle and considered with control inputs ...

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Gazza posted:

Oh sorry, we had snow here up in Colchester had to abort one trip due to road conditions, sounds like you got hammered. Sleeping in the car would not have been a great start to the weekend.

It was really weird ... I'm stubbornly a Yorkshireman and so as far as I'm concerned the conditions themselves weren't actually *THAT* bad but just due to the volume of traffic and a general overall inability to deal with unexpectedly adverse conditions when vehicle driver aids become driver hinderances things turned bad very quickly. The number of rear wheel drive cars that I saw going sideways was really suprising and a lot of issues could be eaily got round by fully switching off ESP / Traction Control and just being gentle and considered with control inputs ...

Phil

It doesn't help while trying to do a hill start (after stopping for an ambulance on an emergency call) when someone who found a bit of traction comes past you, wheels spinning, with only partial control of their vehicle.  They were able to stop on a clear bit of road, so when they hit the patch of snow I'd had to stop on they lost control of their vehicle.  Some drivers are still impatient fools even when driving on packed snow.

Huge posted:

It doesn't help while trying to do a hill start (after stopping for an ambulance on an emergency call) when someone who found a bit of traction comes past you, wheels spinning, with only partial control of their vehicle.  They were able to stop on a clear bit of road, so when they hit the patch of snow I'd had to stop on they lost control of their vehicle.  Some drivers are still impatient fools even when driving on packed snow.

Slow and steady wins the race...

Yes, some of the driving "skills" shown last Thursday were quite impressively poor - there was a Range Rover on the other side of the A35 (which was almost deserted thankfully, unlike the side that I was on which was almost at gridlock) where the driver was obviously oblivious to the mass of his vehicle or perhaps assumed that four wheel drive meant that he didn't have to concern himself with such things ... anyway he had aquired a very good turn of speed (I'm guessing about 50mph) coming down from the A354 junction and as he hit the slight bend at the bottom of the incline lost it completely, he span twice and - thankfully - ended up well buried into the "rough" on the nearside of his side rather than coming through the central reservation to meet us.

Phil

Some pedestrians are stupid too. In Guildford we only had a few inches of snow, but on the many untreated side roads it was still difficult to make progress safely. I was driving at about 10 mph on such a road, which had no other traffic on it at all when two young women decided to cross the road and just walked out in front of me chatting. I jammed the brakes on and the car slid to a stop over a few feet, with the anti-lock braking hammering away. Unbelievably, they stopped in the road in front of me to watch me sliding towards them.

best

David

Phil Harris posted:

Slow and steady wins the race...

 

Phil

I remember many years ago driving from Chudleigh in Devon to London on the motorway (the radio was saying that the motorway was closed, which was news to me).  It wasn't too bad - on lane was reasonably clear, snow on the other lanes.  I was driving an old VW beetle, followed by a number of other cars.  I was going nice and steadily at about 30-40 mph, no problems at all.  On an uphill piece all the cars behind me decided to overtake.  As I came over the brow of the hill, all of them had spun off into the snow on the left hand side of the road.  I felt slightly mean as I drove on by.  Only slightly, though.

Phil Harris posted:

Obsydian posted:

So Phil - I decided after more issues to self help and ignore you to some extent, queue slice of humble pie???????????? later for you (if we ever meet)

In another thread a member mentioned static IP again, so I thought why not I'm about to power cycle, so unintalled app from iPad, Samsung mobile and tablet (gosh Naim app reviews in the Apple and Google app stores are dire), consulted the Oracle Google and setup my Nova with a static IP, at first another flake out, so another power cycle.

But a good day on and many hours listening just to Tidal, purposefully sometimes flip flopping quickly to get the app to flake out (I did not), so today I decided to test it moreso, with all 3 devices flip flopping between devices, then inputs (Spotify Connect and Radio), however much very quick flip flopping I did, Nova was solid and never a single artwork issue. 

Usually my Nova would flake out with very simple playlist changes IN tidal,flip flopping sources I would avoid as was sure to cause flake out freeze and power cycle.

Sidebar whinge, Spotify native is so cool, as the basic info is on the lockscreen, perfect as most the time I just want to skip tracks, or pause, now if it was lossless ????

So I guess I owe you an apology ????☹ but I still insist most users including me would not venture to such fixes, if it really is the cause then can't we just advise folk with some instructions ... 

Sods law after writing this the Nova will flake out ????

Hi Obsydian,

I'm glad that you've been able to get some stability into your setup and that you see that there is more coming into play than you thought but setting static IP addresses on kit is not fixing the underlying issues, just working round them and ideally you do want to make everything work properly and it be seamless as it should be.

I assure you that Naim kit definitely doesn't need any thing "special" to work on ... I had a dealer event that I went to one evening recently and the dealer told me that none of their streaming kit (not just Naim but other manufacturers) was reliable and that they frequently had to abandon or cancel demos when they couldn't get kit working. I tried to explain what the issues were likely to be and I could see him glazing over so I just said "Will you just trust me to fix it?" and popped over to the nearest Argos, picked up a router for under £20 and set it up in his shop uplinked to his shop network for internet access and everything worked perfectly - our kit and others - as soon as they were moved onto that network.

There is no need to go to "Prosumer" or "Enterprise" grade network hardware (there's no harm in doing so other than the kit tends to give you such configurability that it can scare the hell out of your average Joe) to get things working correctly - and it doesn't need kit that has any special functionality - it just needs to work properly.

As for instruction ... I did documents over the years (that have been posted up on here too) that I send out to anyone that contacts us for help and this does always resolve these kinds of problems... (I'll add them on here if anyone wants to have a read.)

Cheers

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Peter1480 posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Richard... some good pointers above, but the behaviour you describe is not unusual in some home network setups and simply switching devices on and off may alleviate in the short term but not resolves and is simply masking an underlying fault. The discovery method for UPnP (and other services) requires compliant network equipment that handles something called multicast IP addresses. These IP addresses needs to be handled in a specific way otherwise things like discovery won’t work or work reliably. Therefore

First ensure you are using Ethernet or Wifi and not consumer workarounds like mains powerline adapters and the like. BTW Cat 4, 5 and 5e are entirely fine for most home networks, especially for audio use... you don’t need exotic/more expensive  Cat 6 or higher specification cables

If the above is the case, the next step, if you have one, is to look at the combined Wifi access point/broadband router.... see if there is a setting called ‘IGMP snooping’ on its setup interface... if so try disabling it.

if there is no setting, or seems to make no difference, it may be your home broadband router/Wifi access point is having multicast issues.. the next thing to try is get a small separate switch like a used Cisco 2960, or a little cheap Netgear, and connect back to your router. Connect  your NAS and Streamer to this switch, and then importantly get a new Wifi access point. The Ubiquiti range are ideal.. plug this into the switch as well. Create a new SSID on it just for your audio and iPad running the Naim app though you can replace your old SSID with it  and iPad running your Naim app. You will almost certainly now have reliable discovery and more effective operation. This will probably apply to home automation, UPnP and AirPlay as well.

Hi Simon,

I've had a look at the Ubiquiti range, which model Wifi access point did you go for? I do n't have too many problems since I split the bands on my Hub6 but if a Wifi access point will make it more reliable I'd like to give one a go. My Cisco switch is not POE, I assume its best to plug the Wifi access point into a power supply away from the Naim spur?

Thanks as always for your guidance.

Hi Guys,

The Ubiquiti stuff is great (I use it myself at home) but remember that you don't *NEED* to go to that level of kit and the stuff can be quite scary to configure for your average man-on-the-street ...

You can "fix" these issues without going anywhere other than Argos or PC World and without spending a fortune ... When we do shows and events then we typically use consumer grade LinkSys or NetGear kit and I've used TP Link too but models have such a limited lifespan (maybe a couple of years before they're replaced with something new) that we can't keep testing new units as they come out - again though anything that works *PROPERLY* will be fine.

I've used LinkSys EA6300 and EA7500 routers myself and they've been fine, I've used the TP Link TL-WR841N (which was under £20 but I believe is now discontinued) to fix issues with dealer networks and I've popped some support documents onto one of my replies above that should hopefully give some guidance too.

Cheers

Phil

Many thanks Phil, realy useful info!

for what is it worth I had the same problem with my Draytek router after having disabled Spotify on my NDS.  Lots of to and fro with the dealer and naim but by sheer luck I enabled Spotify again and it all worked.  I think it is because Spotify uses the Apple "Bonjour" protocol that the naim app needs as well. If  Spotify is disabled then my NDS does show "Bonjour" as a service when I run Network Analyser. May be a red herring but it has been totally reliable since I turned Spotify back on.