Temporary solution before ND555 released

Microrendu + new chord qutest / new Brooklyn DAC ?

i am at the same situation, 272 sold to a good price already....

i like to see nd555 and ndx2 options compared with my current 555psdr, I am more and more with the idea of not going top end with digital, I have a feeling that a new digital solution will be the best thing every year for a while until dust gets gets settled, meanwhile I can upgrade my turntable to my end game retirement setup...like Kronos Sparta

Meanwhile I will enjoy Cd2x with 555ps and my woodpacker2

i got an American integrated with a dac from my dealer to use it while 552 arrives, he could not barrow me any naim at the moment, 272/555/300  was sooooo much better... I can not even compare.. even my wife said naaah it is not same at all after 30 seconds...

272/555/300 with full SL loom, power lines and frame is a very good combo, I hope 552 will bring something better..

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

That depends on whether the rendering stage of rhe ND555 with uPNP via network is better than that of the Core as output via SPDIF. Quite apart from the presently unknown comparison purely of the two rendering stages, networks introduce additional variables, which can include greater susceptibility to other sources of degradation.

naim demonstrates its streamers with the uniticore in upnp mode at shows, because they consider it to be the best. In spdif, you are using only the dac section of the nds, ndx or nd555....   if you want to use spdif with the core, better is to connect a separate dac, like ndac or chord dave.  

Is the use of uPNP at shows for quality reasons declared as such by Naim?  Or might it be for ease of control, or more likely, perhaps,  because when demonstrating an all-in-one streamer one would do so with a network simply because it is being marketed as capable of running on a nework, and the Core is but one example of a serve. Demonstrating with the Core-specific SPDIF feed would be something different, focussing on the Core’s capabilities rather than just the streamer.

I seem to recall Phil Harris stating something to the effect that he could hear no difference between Core as renderer and NDX.

[@mention:3678285645782720] interesting you're in almost the same situation!

Emre posted:

 

272/555/300 with full SL loom, power lines and frame is a very good combo, I hope 552 will bring something better..

 

The 552 arrived the day before yesterday. Still breaking in of course but even though it's "just" the 272/555DR PS as source it's simply phenomenal.

Sure it's worth waiting for the NDX2 as well to compare but I have the feeling that the ND555 will be so much better. Still if I get the chance to buy a NDS for a very good price in mint condition I'd do it and I'm not pressurised to buy an ND555 right from the beginning.

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

That depends on whether the rendering stage of rhe ND555 with uPNP via network is better than that of the Core as output via SPDIF. Quite apart from the presently unknown comparison purely of the two rendering stages, networks introduce additional variables, which can include greater susceptibility to other sources of degradation.

naim demonstrates its streamers with the uniticore in upnp mode at shows, because they consider it to be the best. In spdif, you are using only the dac section of the nds, ndx or nd555....   if you want to use spdif with the core, better is to connect a separate dac, like ndac or chord dave.  

Is the use of uPNP at shows for quality reasons declared as such by Naim?  Or might it be for ease of control, or more likely, perhaps,  because when demonstrating an all-in-one streamer one would do so with a network simply because it is being marketed as capable of running on a nework, and the Core is but one example of a serve. Demonstrating with the Core-specific SPDIF feed would be something different, focussing on the Core’s capabilities rather than just the streamer.

I seem to recall Phil Harris stating something to the effect that he could hear no difference between Core as renderer and NDX.

in spdif mode you don’t use the streaming part of the ndx or nds, so it’s not very logical. But you can do it and show the capabilities of the core in that way, i agree with you innocent bystander.  Just using only a specified dac is more logical.

As for sound quality, perhaps a core/ dave can compete with nds/ core in upnp, it must be in the same league, just different.

For upnp vs spdif, i could compare at home with my serve/ linear ps( very similar to the core):  with a good network isolation and quality lan, vs spdif with dc1,  the upnp was much better for me, at the first seconds of listening.

I know you have the dave, why not try to borrow a core and connect in spdif, and compare to your mac mini?

what means » innocent bystander « , if i may ask?

French Rooster posted:

 

I know you have the dave, why not try to borrow a core and connect in spdif, and compare to your mac mini?

what means » innocent bystander « , if i may ask?

Core is on my list of things to try when one day my Mac Mini gives up the ghost, or when my frustrations with Audirvana’s library handling get the better of me and make me give real consideration to replacement, though it would be campared with alternatives like Melco, Innuos Zenith, and likely another lower cost option such as so ething based on microRendu or similar.

As for the term “innocent bystander”, it means someone who is in the vicinity of something happening, and who either just observes it, or who inadvertently gets caught up in something that was nothing to do with them. Maybe most often used to describe people caught up in something unfortunate, but the meaning doesn’t limit it to that. I adopted it as a slogan on clothing back in the 1980s, prompted by a track name on Edgar Broughton Band’s Superchip album, liking its interesting connotations, and have worn it on a T-shirt or sweatshirt to most rock  gigs I’ve been to since.

callen posted:

I was told that if it's anything like the Uniti range "they would be very surprised" if it gets released this year... especially with the rumours around "timing" issues.

While a dealer obviously has more information... the ND555 / NDX 2 / ND5XS 2 are in different position to the Uniti release in that the streaming board (the major new part) is already developed and pretty much finalised being that it’s in use in the UnitiAtom / Star / Nova.

From the information Naim fed to customers, the delays were a lot down to certification from third parties, this should be (mostly) avoided for the new streamers.

Richieroo posted:

Get a little Mojo connect to mini computer or pad and then to 552 ....... very good sound for buttons...+ you can sell mojo when your super ND555 lands ........... yipee

If you feel it likely you’ll go for ND555 and NDS just won’t do then Richie’s advice seems the most cost effective short term fix I could think of too. Not sure how good it will be, but wager it won’t be awful and it’s not for long...

kevin J Carden posted:

Richieroo posted:

Get a little Mojo connect to mini computer or pad and then to 552 ....... very good sound for buttons...+ you can sell mojo when your super ND555 lands ........... yipee

If you feel it likely you’ll go for ND555 and NDS just won’t do then Richie’s advice seems the most cost effective short term fix I could think of too. Not sure how good it will be, but wager it won’t be awful and it’s not for long...

The NDS will do. Just got an option do buy one for a reasonable price. As I will have the SL IC and Burndys I can wait very relaxed and see what a ND555 can do in direct comparison - yippee!   

Thanks everyone!

Keep us posted!!!

Richieroo posted:

Keep us posted!!!

Thanks for your interest, Richieroo! Both are here and about to break in step by step. Soundstage and punch are amazing, still quite harsh tough but I'm sure that will dissolve soon. I noticed that the sound level between the left and right channels are not quite balanced if the control is below the 8 o'clock mark. The music is insomuch present that it's simply too loud to listen above the 8 o'clock mark late at night. From what I've read it's a known problem but I will talk to my dealer if there's a chance that this can be solved. 

Harshness is gone. NDS/555DR/552DR sounds incredible! I think ND555 can wait for a while - no rush to update the source - speakers might be next

I'm so glad I bought my NDS 5 1/2 years ago.  WOW time flies!  I've been enjoying it for alllllll this time.

Lesson:  Waiting for the 'next greater thing' means time is fleeting.  No matter what the ND555 sounds like, the NDS sounds fabulous and one can obtain one TODAY.

Cheers!  

DL_Audio posted:

Harshness is gone. NDS/555DR/552DR sounds incredible! I think ND555 can wait for a while - no rush to update the source - speakers might be next

DL, the imbalance you hear is a quirk of the pots on the pre amp. My previous 282 was rather imbalanced, particularly at low volumes, giving more volume out of the left channel than the right. My current 252 has the same issue but not quite so pronounced. Tweaking the balance control sorts it though.

Glad you are enjoying your not so temporary NDS. It is rather good and I can't think what the ND555 will sound like, if by all accounts it will clearly beat the NDS.

Exciting times!

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

 

I know you have the dave, why not try to borrow a core and connect in spdif, and compare to your mac mini?

...

Core is on my list of things to try when one day my Mac Mini gives up the ghost, or when my frustrations with Audirvana’s library handling get the better of me and make me give real consideration to replacement, though it would be campared with alternatives like Melco, Innuos Zenith, and likely another lower cost option such as so ething based on microRendu or similar.

...

I am not aware of any serious review of the Core's S/PDIF output (and, more generally, of the Core as a whole), thus it is difficult to say how it performs. The Innuos Zenith SE's USB output has received very positive reviews in the "A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming" monster thread on CA, see page 236. The new Antipodes devices of the "X" series were also mentioned as possible contenders of solutions based on SoTM Trifecta in that thread while the Melcos do not seem to come out very well in the reviews on CA. I am currently playing around with an Allo DigiOne and there have been rumors of Allo being working on a successor. From the point of view of usability this would be, for me, the best alternative because, no matter how good the UI of Innuos, Melco, Antipodes, etc. are, they are very limited. At least it seems that one can install MinimServer on the Innuos and on the Melcos and on the SoTM sMS-200ultra. This makes such devices well suitable for serving classical music. I do not know whether MinimServer runs on the Antipodes but certainly it cannot be installed on the Core.

Yes, formal reviews, espapecially comparative with other devices are distinctly lacking in this area. The Core (in this mode), Zenith and Melco have been discussed on this forum, though the latter far more than the other two.

nbpf posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

 

I know you have the dave, why not try to borrow a core and connect in spdif, and compare to your mac mini?

...

Core is on my list of things to try when one day my Mac Mini gives up the ghost, or when my frustrations with Audirvana’s library handling get the better of me and make me give real consideration to replacement, though it would be campared with alternatives like Melco, Innuos Zenith, and likely another lower cost option such as so ething based on microRendu or similar.

...

I am not aware of any serious review of the Core's S/PDIF output (and, more generally, of the Core as a whole), thus it is difficult to say how it performs. The Innuos Zenith SE's USB output has received very positive reviews in the "A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming" monster thread on CA, see page 236. The new Antipodes devices of the "X" series were also mentioned as possible contenders of solutions based on SoTM Trifecta in that thread while the Melcos do not seem to come out very well in the reviews on CA. I am currently playing around with an Allo DigiOne and there have been rumors of Allo being working on a successor. From the point of view of usability this would be, for me, the best alternative because, no matter how good the UI of Innuos, Melco, Antipodes, etc. are, they are very limited. At least it seems that one can install MinimServer on the Innuos and on the Melcos and on the SoTM sMS-200ultra. This makes such devices well suitable for serving classical music. I do not know whether MinimServer runs on the Antipodes but certainly it cannot be installed on the Core.

yes, it is difficult to choose between core, innuos, antipodes or melco. There is a site «  hifi advice.com » that i like to read. The reviewer tested a lot of servers in spdif and usb mode, with different dacs.  But not the core yet.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Yes, formal reviews, espapecially comparative with other devices are distinctly lacking in this area. The Core (in this mode), Zenith and Melco have been discussed on this forum, though the latter far more than the other two.

The Zenith SE has been reviewed quite thoroughly at page 236 of the above mentioned thread by "austinpop", see post from Jan. 27 about in the middle of the page. The bottom line seems to be that both power supply and clocking are essential and the Innuos does very well in the first department whereas a Trifecta system shines in the second.

The impression that one gets reading the CA monster thread (but see page 1 for a nice table of contents put together by austinpop) is that Innuos and SoTM will rather soon come out with new devices that address both aspects: power supply and clocking.

On CA there is also a crowd funded initiative for putting togetehr a new board based on the lessons learned from Innuos, Antipodes and Trifecta.

My take is that in the second half of this year the problem of feeding a high quality USB DAC or USB interface with low power, high quality combined server+renderers will essentially be "solved" through DigiOne-like solutions and high quality LPSUs. For running Roon servers one will still need more beefy and carefully designed boards and power supplies though. Here, it will be interesting to see what Innuos, SoTM, Antipodes and Co. will come up with. 

DL_Audio,

What amp are you using? I must have missed it, I’m sorry. 

Thank you.

French Rooster posted:

nbpf posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

 

I know you have the dave, why not try to borrow a core and connect in spdif, and compare to your mac mini?

...

Core is on my list of things to try when one day my Mac Mini gives up the ghost, or when my frustrations with Audirvana’s library handling get the better of me and make me give real consideration to replacement, though it would be campared with alternatives like Melco, Innuos Zenith, and likely another lower cost option such as so ething based on microRendu or similar.

...

I am not aware of any serious review of ...

yes, it is difficult to choose between core, innuos, antipodes or melco. There is a site «  hifi advice.com » that i like to read. The reviewer tested a lot of servers in spdif and usb mode, with different dacs.  But not the core yet.

Well, for me it's easy, I do not buy any of them. Support for MinimServer is mandatory on a music server if this is to be used to serve classical music. This rules out the Naim Core and perhaps also the Antipodes, I'm not sure. I do not want to have a ripping station integrated in my music server: ripping CDs and serving music files are orthogonal tasks and an optical drive adds complexity to the power supply with potentially negative effects on sound quality. This rules out the Innuos. I am left with the Melcos that, as I mentioned, have not compared very well as USB servers on CA. One should test a device in one's own system, of course. But my time is limited, the availability of the Melcos is not overwhelming and, until someone finds out that the USB output of a Melco + USB to S/PDIF interface is far better than the one of a DigiOne, I do not see any point in buying a Melco.  

joeinid posted:

DL_Audio,

What amp are you using? I must have missed it, I’m sorry. 

Thank you.

sorry for the late reply. 250DR - 500DR will be next.

Thank you so much. Should be a wonderful upgrade.

.. Support for MinimServer is mandatory on a music server if this is to be used to serve classical music. This rules out the Naim Core and perhaps also the Antipodes, I'm not sure.

MinimServer can be installed on the Antipodes and will appear as a UPnP/DLNA server on UPnP/DLNA renderer devices on the network, according to the user manual. I have had an audition of the DX3 recently but only used HQPlayer/NAA. I will be purchasing either the CX or EX when available in a few weeks and will try Minimserver then and can report how it goes.

johnG posted:

 

.. Support for MinimServer is mandatory on a music server if this is to be used to serve classical music. This rules out the Naim Core and perhaps also the Antipodes, I'm not sure.

MinimServer can be installed on the Antipodes and will appear as a UPnP/DLNA server on UPnP/DLNA renderer devices on the network, according to the user manual. I have had an audition of the DX3 recently but only used HQPlayer/NAA. I will be purchasing either the CX or EX when available in a few weeks and will try Minimserver then and can report how it goes.

Great news johnG, thanks! I am looking forward to reading you findings. The new CX and DX server+renderer devices look very promising, do you know what are the differences between the two? Best, nbpf

Hi NBPF,

I have been taking a close interest in new servers, renderers and DACs, as I’m looking for a streaming system to replace (and improve upon) the CDS3/555PS.

Like you, I have also read the mammoth CA thread.

I auditioned a chord DAVE versus NDS/XPSDR, with both fed by the middle Melco box (N1ZH/2). The dealer used the XPS because he was out of 555PS at the time. He offered to demo the Core versus Melco but suggested that  the Melco was a material step up from the Core as a source for DAVE.

On Antipodes DX3 versus EX versus CX, the DX3 is similar to the EX but with twin ODAPS 1 power supplies, one each for the server & renderer circuits. The twin power supplies and better component spacing take the DX3 above the EX. Neither has the processing power to run full Roon server functionality with DSP and DSD512.

The Antipodes CX runs on the second generation ODAPS 2 power supply (which is apparently a good thing). It also has a much more capable processor for running the server functions, i.e. full Roon server with DSP and DSD512.  So, if you want the best Antipodes server, it’s the CX.  Use a CX for serving to an EX as renderer and you have the best that Antipodes can offer.  At least for now.  I can’t help but wonder when Antipodes will bolt a CX processor and ODAPS 2 power supplies into a DX case to create a DX4...

In terms of renderers, I am being encouraged to go for a Sonore Signature Rendu SE over an Antipodes EX by Audiostore. Both have linear power supplies, so shouldn’t set the Naim transformers humming.

All this does rather indicate that there is room for Naim to come up with a much more capable server than the Core (e.g. full Roon capability) at a considerably higher price point too.

Food for thought...

Best regards, FT

Foot tapper posted:

Hi NBPF,

I have been taking a close interest in new servers, renderers and DACs, as I’m looking for a streaming system to replace (and improve upon) the CDS3/555PS.

Like you, I have also read the mammoth CA thread.

I auditioned a chord DAVE versus NDS/XPSDR, with both fed by the middle Melco box (N1ZH/2). The dealer used the XPS because he was out of 555PS at the time. He offered to demo the Core versus Melco but suggested that  the Melco was a material step up from the Core as a source for DAVE.

On Antipodes DX3 versus EX versus CX, the DX3 is similar to the EX but with twin ODAPS 1 power supplies, one each for the server & renderer circuits. The twin power supplies and better component spacing take the DX3 above the EX. Neither has the processing power to run full Roon server functionality with DSP and DSD512.

The Antipodes CX runs on the second generation ODAPS 2 power supply (which is apparently a good thing). It also has a much more capable processor for running the server functions, i.e. full Roon server with DSP and DSD512.  So, if you want the best Antipodes server, it’s the CX.  Use a CX for serving to an EX as renderer and you have the best that Antipodes can offer.  At least for now.  I can’t help but wonder when Antipodes will bolt a CX processor and ODAPS 2 power supplies into a DX case to create a DX4...

In terms of renderers, I am being encouraged to go for a Sonore Signature Rendu SE over an Antipodes EX by Audiostore. Both have linear power supplies, so shouldn’t set the Naim transformers humming.

All this does rather indicate that there is room for Naim to come up with a much more capable server than the Core (e.g. full Roon capability) at a considerably higher price point too.

Food for thought...

Best regards, FT

Thanks for the very informative post FT, there is really a lot of food for thought in there! For the time being I will likely keep on playing around with low power, modest server+renderer based solutions like my current FitPC3 or Raspberry Pi based devices. I would not mind investing in a more professional solution but, so far, I have found the specs of the devices that I have considered disappointing (Core) or unconvincing (Melco, Innuos). I am not particularly interested in demoing these devices. Network players like the ultraRendu and the sMS-200ultra are more interesting but tend to lead to rather long "spaghetti" chains of devices and their power supply which I do not want to deal with. The new Antipodes CX looks quite promising, it would be even better if one could order it with a high quality S/PDIF output and with a wireless card module. We will see. At least some manufacturers seem to have understood what people actually need and start to offer meaningful devices. Best, nbpf