A thought on where best to use your posh Ethernet cable

Here’s a thought - try another Vodka between the nas and switch, before going for the more expensive Chord. I have two Vodkas and they work really well together. 

I think I may well do that HH. Or perhaps a lower priced Chord such as a Epic or Signature. I plan to try a few before springing for SSA. If all else fails I will try to convince the dealer that his old-school, obsolete, no longer in production SSA should be very heavily discounted..

The Aray cables are superb but also compliment Naim.

Given your media is all NAS as opposed to straight streaming ala Tidal could be this be the reason. Chord do say place at the last leg, but also wherever you introduce it everything thereafter gets the Aray effect.

The cables are massively overpriced and each new product more than the last, but I cannot deny a massive musical benefit, currently looking into the Sarum T, but £2100 is crazy (I think).

My aim is to Aray everything, ethernet (done), power cable (done) and speaker cables (to do).

If you want to play with so called ‘audiophile’ Ethernet type cables then I would put only between the streamer and your local switch port where any such ‘effect’ on the Ethernet physical layer performance is localised... elsewhere I would use purpose built data Ethernet cables that are Cat 5e or Cat 6 certified for max reliability.

if you are not to use certified cabling then I would use managed network equipment which allows you to check for data corruption at the link layer. If you use fibre I would definitely do the same... fibre can be more vulnerable to corruption especially over short distances 

By all means experiment away with fancy cabling, even home made twisted pairs which can be very effective, but do have the equipment to check for data corruption.    Although such data corruption is unlikely to be audible in media transfers because of the use of TCP, it may affect the reliability of  multicast and broadcast used by discovery methods etc.

Also remember the current Naim streamers use 802.3u, which is Fast Ethernet, supported optimally by Cat5e. You will probably find shielded version of Cat5e .. either STP, or FTP do ‘sound’ different on the streamer due to the analogue effects of varying cable characteristics carrying high frequency signals and the interfacing of those cables to attached devices.

Stop encouraging them Simon!

I know.. it’s tempting to be dismissive... but I try and keep an open mind... just if one is going to play.. at least do it with ones eyes open.... and when things go awry don’t blame the home router or the Naim app 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I know.. it’s tempting to be dismissive... but I try and keep an open mind... 

Keeping an open mind is good... but always be careful your brains don’t fall out!

Well I replaced some home made ethernet patch leads this weekend, primarily because its not really very good to have solid core ethernet used this way. I got some Excel ethernet cables 7 quid each. Which i though was expensive, but Excel do make stuff for the long term.

Sounded exactly the same to me, so as with so many things audiophile I guess big money has to be spent.

garyi posted:

 Sounded exactly the same to me, so as with so many things audiophile I guess big money has to be spent.

Or all cables (which work) sound the same!

Yep... I only tend to make own ‘infrastructure’ cables... I tend to buy patch leads with their moulded  connectors as they last longer being regularly connected and unconnected... I have a box of various patch leads, and I did find a particular shielded Cat 6 patch cable .. cost about five pounds from memory ‘sounded’ subjectively the most relaxed between my 3560 and my NDX.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

if you are not to use certified cabling then I would use managed network equipment which allows you to check for data corruption at the link layer. If you use fibre I would definitely do the same... fibre can be more vulnerable to corruption especially over short distances 

Simon, if you don’t mind me asking, how short is ‘short’ in this context, using multimode fibre (without attenuators)? I think I recall that there is a maximum distance of 550m quoted for these. I have a couple of runs through the house which are about 20m. Presumably those who use a pair of media converters purely as a ‘tweak’ are just using very short patch cables?

I tried the Melco, Vodka from Audioquest, qed graphite, and true audio signal Cat7. At £65 for a metre the Melco takes some beating for SQ and value for money. That’s me done for now on ethernet cables.

https://arstechnica.com/gadget...s-on-the-test-bench/

You can waste your money if you like, I think I would just buy a good  certified cable. I did recently change all my cables to see if I could hear any difference, I didn't.

I think some people have had too many vodkas.

A fibre media bridge for circa £150 with ifi smps is still a bigger bang per £.

The Aray cables just take it to another level in realism and musicality but remaining neutral in signature, but are vastly more expensive - both for me worth it.

Network issues, I had more when I was just router to streamer.

Bottom line don't knock it until you try it, or be a Naim sheep only doing what Naim do or sell (queue a Naim ethernet £1000s) the all the lovies with be all over it and swear by it.

Or maybe some us just have golden ears as they say ????

I changed a generic cat7 cable from my router to my switch to a Meicord and I could here the difference so the Meicord stayed. 

Finkfan posted:

I changed a generic cat7 cable from my router to my switch to a Meicord and I could here the difference so the Meicord stayed. 

I too changed 2x Cat7 into MeiCord Cat6,  plus tried some others like AQ & Chord in the process,  the MeiCord's are keepers.      Like one or two others have said  I do keep an open mind & don't mock anything before I try it,  but I am no longer tempted to try it.  

Gazza posted:

I tried the Melco, Vodka from Audioquest, qed graphite, and true audio signal Cat7. At £65 for a metre the Melco takes some beating for SQ and value for money. That’s me done for now on ethernet cables.

same conclusion , although i never really noted any difference  ,i went for QED GRAPHITE The lot cost £80  .  thought it would be best if cable.plug and manufacturing were the same ..  all switch to servers/players the same lenght

@simon 

Do you recommend shielded or unshielded cat 5e cables?

I find ferrites at Ethernet cable ends make a huge difference - so wouldn't necessarily dismiss fancy ethernet cables. they probably just take the ferrites to the next level.

Overpriced? Most definitely. Just like naim. :-)

I have 5 ferrites on each end of my 20 dollar Ethernet cables,sounds fantastic.

ChrisSU posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

if you are not to use certified cabling then I would use managed network equipment which allows you to check for data corruption at the link layer. If you use fibre I would definitely do the same... fibre can be more vulnerable to corruption especially over short distances 

Simon, if you don’t mind me asking, how short is ‘short’ in this context, using multimode fibre (without attenuators)? I think I recall that there is a maximum distance of 550m quoted for these. I have a couple of runs through the house which are about 20m. Presumably those who use a pair of media converters purely as a ‘tweak’ are just using very short patch cables?

I’d check with the manufacturer, but anything over 10 metres might be ok... but attenuators might be best.

MangoMonkey posted:

@simon 

Do you recommend shielded or unshielded cat 5e cables?

 

i think it depends.. if you are needing to run Ethernet cables along side mains, interconnects  or speaker cable then I can see using shielded cable will have benefits

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

if you are not to use certified cabling then I would use managed network equipment which allows you to check for data corruption at the link layer. If you use fibre I would definitely do the same... fibre can be more vulnerable to corruption especially over short distances 

Simon, if you don’t mind me asking, how short is ‘short’ in this context, using multimode fibre (without attenuators)? I think I recall that there is a maximum distance of 550m quoted for these. I have a couple of runs through the house which are about 20m. Presumably those who use a pair of media converters purely as a ‘tweak’ are just using very short patch cables?

I’d check with the manufacturer, but anything over 10 metres might be ok... but attenuators might be best.

Thanks Simon, as far as I can tell from the switch management, I'm not seeing any packet loss or corruption, so I'm guessing things are working OK. When I looked at attenuators, nearly all suppliers seemed only to sell them for single mode, where I guess they might be more widely needed?

Apologies to the OP for this diversion - back to posh copper cables..........

[@mention:1566878603876589]

What do you think of the cables offered from BlueJeansCables? (You could google that term). They offer data cables with certifications - 5e, 6, and 6a variations.

I happened to have my UnitiCore down with the HiFi for the weekend. I moved away from posh cables to Cat6 cables. The noise floor went up (I think), but there's more immediacy and involvement, I think... 

My science free and therfore uninformed view is that the main factor in my reported experience is a probably very noisy envirnment for the cable tasked with NAS to switch. Here’s a pic of my ‘data cupboard’

There’s a Sky Box, Apple TV, 3x Sonos Amps +1 Sonos bridge unit (all wireless) Cordless phone Transmitter, WiFi based Rako lighting system, Satellite TV input system, Unitiserve + Israeli PS, DVD player, 17x hard wire Ethernet connections going from here around the house, 2x Netgear NAS Drives, Draytek Router and a UPS supplying it all. I’m guessing this is potentially a very noisy environment. I suspect the reason that the Chord SSA had such a dramatic effect on the sound (and contrary to the tone of the majority of replies here I promise you I am neither deaf nor exaggerating) is principally that this cable made a much better job of shielding the signal from these nasties. I’m fairly sure that the SSA is probably not the only cable that could do this, but I reckon my task now is to find an alternative cable at a more sensible cost that can do a similar job handling the noisy environment. HH may have it right with the double Vodka suggestion - perhaps even a triple or quadruple Vodka since I also need a link to my Unitiserve as well as a link from switch to patch panel, both of which operate in the same noisy environment. ????