telegartner limited japan switch gold: 4100 eur

there is a review on german hifi statement magazine, february 19.  But on german....

High fidelity magazine poland, on polish.

These prices are not unusual, however price should not equate to audio quality, that is not a switches design spec, it will be expensive for other reasons. 

That being said this one may be marketed as an audiophile switch, I could not find any info on it, in that case, fill yer boots, people seem happy to spend lots of money on non compliant ethernet cables so why not?

If I could convince people to pay me 100s of pounds on ethernet leads, for sure I would happily sell them all day long.

garyi posted:

These prices are not unusual, however price should not equate to audio quality, that is not a switches design spec, it will be expensive for other reasons. 

That being said this one may be marketed as an audiophile switch, I could not find any info on it, in that case, fill yer boots, people seem happy to spend lots of money on non compliant ethernet cables so why not?

If I could convince people to pay me 100s of pounds on ethernet leads, for sure I would happily sell them all day long.

 

 

 

some spec design in hifi statement magazine.

Tempting...

 Not.

i am just curious to understand why it costs so much and where is the innovation....

You are asking this when people will happily pay thousands for aray cables?

It costs so much because men will pay so much.

On the upside it has all the classic ingredients, unconventional shape, unfathomable connectors and gold!

French Rooster posted:

i am just curious to understand why it costs so much and where is the innovation....

It looks like it has industrial heritage given the M12 connectors, but like using shielded Ethernet cables in a domestic environment, the advantages are probably lost.

Simon has mentioned the importance of the stability of the clock generation in Ethernet switches quite a few times when switch recommendations come up. I'm speculating here, as Network products are not my area, but hardware which is designed to be used in high shock or high vibration environments (Military, Aerospace etc) will be ruggedised to varying degrees depending on application. Sensitive components such as clock generating crystals and the circuit boards themselves will be designed to have high degrees of mechanical isolation to protect them from the external environment to allow survival and reliable operation.

Some of this environmental isolation may translate into 'better' performance when a network switch designed in this way is used in the audio world...

Looking at the config of the ethernet connectors used it seems they are aware of the limitations of RJ45 w.r.t. maintaining twisted pair form & resultant bandwidth limitations.  I really don't see the point though & wonder what benefit it will bring to audio streaming with IEEE 802.3u & 100Base-TX.     But I'm sure if someone is persuaded to part with that amount of cash for it,  some snake oil peddler have the right words of magic to tell 'em they will hear into the hearts of angels.   

Mike-B posted:

<snip>
   But I'm sure if someone is persuaded to part with that amount of cash for it,  some snake oil peddler have the right words of magic to tell 'em they will hear into the hearts of angels.   

Which will probably be quite cacophonous if there's a thousand of them (or more - as many as want to!) dancing on the point of a pin!

Lost for words. When will this madness end.

According to the Hifistatement review the switch was designed by the Japanese brach of Telegärtner. It is either based on or identical to one commissioned by Japanese Rail, which would explain the M12 connectors.

Mulberry posted:

According to the Hifistatement review the switch was designed by the Japanese brach of Telegärtner. It is either based on or identical to one commissioned by Japanese Rail, which would explain the M12 connectors.

I bet their Bullet trains go even faster now 

there will always be stupid people who will buy a 1000 dollars hair brush in gold finish....

or this telegatner switch is really something special and technically advanced....

French Rooster posted:

there will always be stupid people who will buy a 1000 dollars hair brush in gold finish....

or this telegatner switch is really something special and technically advanced....

Are these the same stupid people  that would pay similar sums for bits of wire? Especially if they are called “Super” something or other?

French Rooster posted:

or this telegatner switch is really something special and technically advanced....

I have yet to read or see anything that is ‘advanced’ about this device what so ever.. other than it’s in a pretty box and doesn’t use regular RJ45 connectors. 

ChrisSU posted:

Mulberry posted:

According to the Hifistatement review the switch was designed by the Japanese brach of Telegärtner. It is either based on or identical to one commissioned by Japanese Rail, which would explain the M12 connectors.

I bet their Bullet trains go even faster now 

And the tunnels have even more inky blackness...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

French Rooster posted:

or this telegatner switch is really something special and technically advanced....

I have yet to read or see anything that is ‘advanced’ about this device what so ever.. other than it’s in a pretty box and doesn’t use regular RJ45 connectors. 

hifi statement magazine, you can find some informations.  they are talking about m12 connectors...

M12 connectors are used in physical robust environments and can be waterproofed... so can’t really see the point for it for indoor Ethernet .... up top on a communications mast exposed to the elements then perhaps yes...

i would have more respect if the manufacturer were to publish their specifications and compliance certifications.... I looked at that particular manufacturer and couldn’t find any reference to the device... didn’t invoke much confidence...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

M12 connectors are used in physical robust environments and can be waterproofed... so can’t really see the point for it for indoor Ethernet .... up top on a communications mast exposed to the elements then perhaps yes...

i would have more respect if the manufacturer were to publish their specifications and compliance certifications.... I looked at that particular manufacturer and couldn’t find any reference to the device... didn’t invoke much confidence...

hifi statement magazine, 19 february, telegartner switch japan switch, the last page “ende”, tap on google....you have all the specs at the end of the review, after the description of the system used.

The specs are no real difference from a regular switch.  

standards IEEE 802.3, IEEE802.3u, IEEE802.3ab

layer-2 data transfer function

data transfer method store-and-forward

MAC address table 8k entries

packet memory buffer 500k byte

jumbo frame (maximum packet length) 9.6k byte

forwarding rate (unicast data transfer) TP/LAN port 1000Mbps link: 1,488,100 packets/s between ports

TP/LAN port 100Mbps link: 148,810 pacekts/s between ports

For comparison - my little very low cost Cisco SG110D spec:

On Chip Memory buffer): 128MB RAM & 128MB Flash  (compared to 500kB)

Forwarding performance (64-byte packet size): 7.4 Mpps x 5 ports (compared to = not stated [see note on "forwarding rate (unicast data transfer)"] ) 

Jumbo Frame Support: 9216 bytes  (compared to 9.6kB = similar) 

The packet forwarding rate for gigabit port is universal = 1,000,000,000bps/8bit/（64＋8＋12）byte=1,488,095pps.  64 bytes per packet, 8 bytes are for the frame header, 12 bytes are for the frame interval.   So for a gigabit port, the packet forwarding rate is 1,488,095pps  (compared to 1,488,100ppps =/~same)  = 7.4 with 5 ports.  

Mike-B posted:

For comparison - my little very low cost Cisco SG110D spec:

On Chip Memory buffer): 128MB RAM & 128MB Flash  (compared to 500kB)

Forwarding performance (64-byte packet size): 7.4 Mpps x 5 ports (compared to = not stated [see note on "forwarding rate (unicast data transfer)"] ) 

Jumbo Frame Support: 9216 bytes  (compared to 9.6kB = similar) 

The packet forwarding rate for gigabit port is universal = 1,000,000,000bps/8bit/（64＋8＋12）byte=1,488,095pps.  64 bytes per packet, 8 bytes are for the frame header, 12 bytes are for the frame interval.   So for a gigabit port, the packet forwarding rate is 1,488,095pps  (compared to 1,488,100ppps =/~same)  = 7.4 with 5 ports.  

the specs are common, so perhaps advanced ps?  cost no object parts?  better connectivity? jitter?   

 recently i found a review on the aqvox ethernet audiophile se switch ( 1000 euros): the reviewer in stereophile found a very minimal upgrade in sound quality, not enough to invest in it.

Mike-B posted:

The specs are no real difference from a regular switch.  

standards IEEE 802.3, IEEE802.3u, IEEE802.3ab

layer-2 data transfer function

data transfer method store-and-forward

MAC address table 8k entries

packet memory buffer 500k byte

jumbo frame (maximum packet length) 9.6k byte

forwarding rate (unicast data transfer) TP/LAN port 1000Mbps link: 1,488,100 packets/s between ports

TP/LAN port 100Mbps link: 148,810 pacekts/s between ports

This I suggest is the bare minimum for a consumer switch... perhaps it’s a little Netgear board in fancy clothing..... and if you can’t configure the switch to optimise for your setup (ie managed switch), I suggest some one is having a laugh.....

BTW no mention of configurable IGMP snooping support which I’d suggest is very important for a top performing switch supporting UPnP audio and other similar protocols. No mention of twisted pair noise filter adapters from the likes of TI etc, which if I was designing an ultra low noise/ noise benign switch I’d be looking at, I’d also be looking for a specification for the PHY clock stability. Further I’d be looking for the option of Cut Thru as well as Store and Forward to give me options for ultra low latency audio... not really important for UPnP unless possibly synchronising multiple players.. but there are many other perhaps more professional audio applications out there.

Interesting to note that Telegartner don't actually sell these themselves for this audio application. Another company seems to be touting this as an 'audiophile' switch hence the lack of any meaningful specs above the standard ones noted above. It reminds me somewhat of the Intona USB isolator - a device designed for USB isolation for industrial applications which then gained interest in the audiophile community for use between computers and USB DACs.

I suppose there is money to be made selling those fancy RJ45 to M12 cables though