Time for a change??

Dave J posted:

northpole posted:

Polarbear posted:

nigelb posted:

Congratulations PB, they indeed look superb, and no, not too big in your simply but tastefully furnished living room.

Lindsay, did you try SL speaker cables or go straight to Chord? (Apologies for the slight diversion).

I have heard people suggest that Chord cable suits Kudos better than SL but I would welcome others opinions?

Dave J on here should be well placed to voice an opinion having recently bought 606's from Peter which he has hooked up to music speaker cables.  There does seem to be two sizable camps of opinion re super lumina and sarum or music cables, both quite clear in their opinion about the merits of each, hence my suggestion when you feel up to it, to borrow a set of each.  Possibly starting with sarum in the case of chord as it is semi-affordable, relative to music! 

Peter

I have indeed listened to all cables mentioned and during my auditioning of 707s and 606s, tried both SL and Music. To be fair, the SLs in this setting were a bit better than when I heard them with S20s, at which time Sarum annihilated them, but, despite being better than before, with both 606s and 707s Music was in a completely different league altogether. The two really are not comparable.

But, there are those who love what SL do and I really don’t want to start another cable v cable argument. I’d just say that, if you’re in a position to be able to afford 808s, you’re reasonably likely, at some stage, to be in a position to consider SL, Sarum T and Music (and others) and they are quite different in what they all do (or not). Personally, I’m trying to reach my end game and, for me, Music is an essential element of that end game system. Sadly for my wallet, rather a lot of it ...

I heard some other things recently - in fact when I bumped into PB at Cymbiosis - that were really interesting but that’s another thread...

Damn….I thought you might say that!

Sorry ???? 

Although I’m an advocate of Chord wires with Kudos speakers the Bear should now allow for a period of settling to establish base camp.  Then any evaluation of alternatives can begin.   

I agree Lindsay - but ........

Congratulations PB

Well pleased for you and Karen,

They look lovely in your lounge

Out of interest do they go lower in their bass response to the Arts .I am a bit ignorant with Kudos am I right that they have some Isobaric bass configuration in them ?

Will they require a run in period ?

Happy listening   

Greetings, TC.

Kudos 505, 606, 707 and 808 all have isobaric bass loading. Details are of course on the web-site. This has meant for me that I am able to site my 707's (and 88's before) only about a foot off the back wall and get well controlled and extended bass. The potential eigentones (standing waves) of my relatively small room are not excited to produce bass thickness or boom at specific resonant frequencies.

John.

Greetings John,

Thanks for your explanation,sounds like you have fabulous bass in your system.I am using Quad 2805 electrostatics and their bass is detailed but no way extended.More than happy with their midrange and High frequency performance though.I have always loved the sound of Art Loudspeakers in the past,just a rightness about the sound.So if P.B is thinking the Kudos are better must really give them a listen in the future.

Warm Regards 

Ian

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Although I’m an advocate of Chord wires with Kudos speakers the Bear should now allow for a period of settling to establish base camp.  Then any evaluation of alternatives can begin.   

Absolutely!

They’re great out of the box but after 600 or so hours they really shine and a month later, they just ...relax. 

Polarbear posted:

 

And here is the whole room, well two thirds of it anyway 

Hi Polar,

Looks absolutely fantastic!

Where is the listening position in the room and how did you decide on that location?

Rgds

Dave J posted:

northpole posted:

Polarbear posted:

nigelb posted:

Congratulations PB, they indeed look superb, and no, not too big in your simply but tastefully furnished living room.

Lindsay, did you try SL speaker cables or go straight to Chord? (Apologies for the slight diversion).

I have heard people suggest that Chord cable suits Kudos better than SL but I would welcome others opinions?

Dave J on here should be well placed to voice an opinion having recently bought 606's from Peter which he has hooked up to music speaker cables.  There does seem to be two sizable camps of opinion re super lumina and sarum or music cables, both quite clear in their opinion about the merits of each, hence my suggestion when you feel up to it, to borrow a set of each.  Possibly starting with sarum in the case of chord as it is semi-affordable, relative to music! 

Peter

I have indeed listened to all cables mentioned and during my auditioning of 707s and 606s, tried both SL and Music. To be fair, the SLs in this setting were a bit better than when I heard them with S20s, at which time Sarum annihilated them, but, despite being better than before, with both 606s and 707s Music was in a completely different league altogether. The two really are not comparable.

But, there are those who love what SL do and I really don’t want to start another cable v cable argument. I’d just say that, if you’re in a position to be able to afford 808s, you’re reasonably likely, at some stage, to be in a position to consider SL, Sarum T and Music (and others) and they are quite different in what they all do (or not). Personally, I’m trying to reach my end game and, for me, Music is an essential element of that end game system. Sadly for my wallet, rather a lot of it ...

I heard some other things recently - in fact when I bumped into PB at Cymbiosis - that were really interesting but that’s another thread...

Thats for another day David, at the moment, its plenty of listening. The Titans are less than a week old so there is plenty of time to consider cables.  However before then, there are a couple of other things I am going to consider.

Tabby cat posted:

Congratulations PB

Well pleased for you and Karen,

They look lovely in your lounge

Out of interest do they go lower in their bass response to the Arts .I am a bit ignorant with Kudos am I right that they have some Isobaric bass configuration in them ?

Will they require a run in period ?

Happy listening   

 

Thanks Tabby, they do suit the room perfectly and the colour fits in nicely, just like the ART's you hardly notice they are there.

The ART's went a couple of Hz's lower than the Tiatan, the ART's could really shake the foundation when you pushed them but the Titans are tighter and more tuneful.

I expect to be running them in for at least a few months :-)

ynwa250505 posted:

Polarbear posted:

 

And here is the whole room, well two thirds of it anyway 

Hi Polar,

Looks absolutely fantastic!

Where is the listening position in the room and how did you decide on that location?

Rgds

Thank you.  The listening position is where I took the photo from, we have a two seater leather chair there and we have a dinning room behind us, so plenty of room for the bass waves to flow through.

Well that was a surprise:  someone suggested that the CD555 would benefit from being lifted from the power supplies. 

I therefore took an empty rack and put it below the CD555 and between the power supplies. Did it improve the sound, no!  Not by a long way, the sound was considerably worse, bass became slow and lumpy and the top end lost all its space and detail.  I was expecting it to be the other way round, I was expecting more space and air in the top end and a tighter bass line.

Opinions??

Maybe that now your CD555 sits 'proud' of the rest of the system it is less 'sheltered' from airborne vibrations and the new arranagement is more top-heavy and possibly less rigid, although I suspect this is an unlikely explanation. I also believe that shelves for 6 black boxes is the max height Naim recommend for a Fraim stack, so you are at that limit, with a missing box which might introduce some instability due to the missing weight.

Certainly a strange and counter-intuitive phenomenon you have discovered there.

I am thinking five levels was too high for the CD555 so its all back to normal again 

I suspect something else was wrong Nigel: Hiline rings not loose, cables/burndies touching each other or the wall etc. Stuff like that. Even when I had the Fraim tower in the old house it was still easily clearer and cleaner with a gap. But there is no doubt that less tower is better....

I notice that the CD555 transport is on top of your brawn stack. I guess the problem is that pre amps like the top position of the brains stack and the CD555 has to be on top due to the top loading CD mechanism. I just wondered if you had ever tried the CD555 on top of the brains stack with the pre amp underneath it.

Dark Bear is probably the best person to interject here.

Michael_B. posted:

I suspect something else was wrong Nigel: Hiline rings not loose, cables/burndies touching each other or the wall etc. Stuff like that. Even when I had the Fraim tower in the old house it was still easily clearer and cleaner with a gap. But there is no doubt that less tower is better....

Interestingly, cable dressing was perfect Michael, I managed plenty of space between the burndies and the IC, nothing was touching anywhere.

Playing Enigma right now and its really singing again, the Titans are starting to loosen up a little 

nigelb posted:

I notice that the CD555 transport is on top of your brawn stack. I guess the problem is that pre amps like the top position of the brains stack and the CD555 has to be on top due to the top loading CD mechanism. I just wondered if you had ever tried the CD555 on top of the brains stack with the pre amp underneath it.

Dark Bear is probably the best person to interject here.

The 552 head unit really sings on top of the brains stack Nigel, it doesn't like being anywhere else, hence why I have the CD head unit above the brawn.  Interestingly when I did the same experiment at Andy Clarke's house the extra space was very conclusive but it was only four levels high. 

Polarbear posted:

I am thinking five levels was too high for the CD555 so its all back to normal again 

 

That’s good news in my book FT. The stilts were rather ruining the beatifully balanced Feng Shui of the whole stack anyway..

kevin J Carden posted:

Polarbear posted:

I am thinking five levels was too high for the CD555 so its all back to normal again 

 

That’s good news in my book FT. The stilts were rather ruining the beatifully balanced Feng Shui of the whole stack anyway..

It actually looked quite cool with the TMS one level lower and the 555 one level higher 

A compromise... 3 medium levels along the top?

I have a set of three medium legs on order Dave :-)

Polarbear posted:

Well that was a surprise:  someone suggested that the CD555 would benefit from being lifted from the power supplies. 

I therefore took an empty rack and put it below the CD555 and between the power supplies. Did it improve the sound, no!  Not by a long way, the sound was considerably worse, bass became slow and lumpy and the top end lost all its space and detail.  I was expecting it to be the other way round, I was expecting more space and air in the top end and a tighter bass line.

Opinions??

This is outside my personal experience, but I'm sure I remember a comment on here about completely empty Fraim shelves not giving good results. The thinking was, I think, that the unused shelf should have some mass on it, so should not be empty. So if you happen to have a spare black box and a glass shelf, you could perhaps test this idea. OK, an unused black box might be an extravagance, and bricks might look a little odd!

Such a cool looking system, and that’s before you’ve heard it!