Time for a change??

I started experimenting with acoustic panels/room treatment many years ago, and the main thing I discovered is that it needs to be subtle. It's very easy to kill the sound.

I've sited a large artificial plant at the first reflection point on the l/h wall. It's surprising how much effect it has upon bass control/focus.

The armchair on the right does a different but effective job t'other side. It's never sat on and I considered getting rid of it some time ago. I moved it out of the room and really didn't like what happened to the sound, so back it went.

Clearly, normal reflective/absorptive room furnishings are important and look better. Bass-traps work in the back corners for me, but I suspect with your room and sitting position Nigel, you might benefit from some sort of room treatment in the 'loudspeaker corners'.

Try putting a small table in those corners and put some pillows (end on) or cushions on them. A old golden rule with room acoustics which works is 'live end - dead end'.

I realise that it's probably not practical to move it, but try draping a blanket/towels over your flat screen TV between the loudspeakers to see if it is having a deleterious effect.

Good luck.

John.

Polarbear posted:

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Chord are used inside Kudos speakers. I remember and actually asked Derek to make me a pair of 808 with Sarum inside. That never happened, maybe for a good reason. 

It literally took me months going front Naca5 to Sarum speaker cable but once there, when going back later a year or so, just to check, I couldn’t stand Naca5 for more then a couple of minutes. 

Chord Music add quality on top of that. 

//Jonas

Thanks Jonas, I will bear that in mind when I look at speaker cable, any other tips for the Titans once they have run in?

Not really, they are quite “plug-and-play”, I have been REALLY enjoying them now for 2 years (or is it more?) I don’t see the reason to ever change them (famous words before changing...).  

Best speaker I used ever. DBL was always my end goal but not any more  

Now we just really NEED a ND555...

//Jonas

The Strat (Fender) posted:

DaveBk posted:

Polarbear posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

DaveBk posted:

Polarbear posted:

J.N. posted:

An optical illusion Alba. It's a corner bass-trap behind the Fraim stack. There's one in t'other 'back' corner. They seem to help.

John.

That’s for another discussion John, I wonder whether my room would benefit with some subtle treatment.

I suspect so Nigel. I have found huge benefits from targeted treatment. GIK now have some very nice decorative panels, so you don’t need to make your room look like a recording studio. Bass traps tend to be BIG, if effective, so more of a challenge. I’ll post a pic of my room when I get a chance.

And I can confirm that such treatments certainly work in Stony Stratford

In what way Lindsay, can you be more specific?

When Lindsay visited a few weeks ago, we spent some time discussing room interactions. I’ve taken great care over acoustic room treatments and we concluded that this is a big factor in the success I have with the Focal Utopias.

I’ll try. I thought David’s system vibrant and natural. Although tending towards bright rather than dark - I would still on the personal level choose my Kudos over Focal - there was no harshness in the treble, the mids had clarity but most the bass was beautifully defined.  How much of this was down to the room treatments I can’t say but clearly much thought and care had gone into configuration and set-up.  The proof as ever was in the music - a really enjoyable listening session.  

In effect its getting rid of any nasties Lindsay which I like the sound of 

J.N. posted:

I started experimenting with acoustic panels/room treatment many years ago, and the main thing I discovered is that it needs to be subtle. It's very easy to kill the sound.

I've sited a large artificial plant at the first reflection point on the l/h wall. It's surprising how much effect it has upon bass control/focus.

The armchair on the right does a different but effective job t'other side. It's never sat on and I considered getting rid of it some time ago. I moved it out of the room and really didn't like what happened to the sound, so back it went.

Clearly, normal reflective/absorptive room furnishings are important and look better. Bass-traps work in the back corners for me, but I suspect with your room and sitting position Nigel, you might benefit from some sort of room treatment in the 'loudspeaker corners'.

Try putting a small table in those corners and put some pillows (end on) or cushions on them. A old golden rule with room acoustics which works is 'live end - dead end'.

I realise that it's probably not practical to move it, but try draping a blanket/towels over your flat screen TV between the loudspeakers to see if it is having a deleterious effect.

Good luck.

John.

I can see the subtle placement of effects to improve sound quality. I have always been wary of putting anything behind the speakers as that can sometimes deaden the sound. I am however thinking of some subtle soundboards behind the speakers to focus the soundstage. Not sure if we need bass traps here as we have plenty of room for the bass waves to flow through and dissipate behind us. We do have subtly placed sponges on the left and curtains on the right to stop the side walls coming into play.

On another matter, how do you find the Sources being only three levels high, any adverse effects on the old back? I find mine at just about the right level 

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Polarbear posted:

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Chord are used inside Kudos speakers. I remember and actually asked Derek to make me a pair of 808 with Sarum inside. That never happened, maybe for a good reason. 

It literally took me months going front Naca5 to Sarum speaker cable but once there, when going back later a year or so, just to check, I couldn’t stand Naca5 for more then a couple of minutes. 

Chord Music add quality on top of that. 

//Jonas

Thanks Jonas, I will bear that in mind when I look at speaker cable, any other tips for the Titans once they have run in?

Not really, they are quite “plug-and-play”, I have been REALLY enjoying them now for 2 years (or is it more?) I don’t see the reason to ever change them (famous words before changing...).  

Best speaker I used ever. DBL was always my end goal but not any more  

Now we just really NEED a ND555...

//Jonas

I would like to hear one first Jonas, TBH I am not that unhappy with the CD 555.

I seriously considered the DBL's before I had the ART's, sadly I don't think they would have ever worked in my room and they are getting a tad old now, I think it would be a backward step as things have moved on since they were made. I can hear the progress form the ART's to the Titans. I kind of expected that the ART's would go one day but these.... lets wait and see, I can't imagine things getting much better 

Polarbear posted:

Michael posted:

Nigel, I and a couple of friends (J.N. and Dark Bear) have found it beneficial to place the NAP500 one single level up from the base level rather than having it sitting on the base level. Is this something you have tried at all?

Hi Michael, the honest answer is no I haven't tried lifting the 500 head unit. Can I ask what you have below your 500?  Is it a spare tier or do you have a black box there?

 

It is something I could consider, the question is going to be the cable dressing issue, the boxes are where they are now to get the best cable dressing.

I have my Linn Radikal under my 500 on the base level, I believe John has his 555PS under his. (John correct me if I am wrong).

So we have from top to bottom, left: CD555, 555PS-DR, NDX, 555PS-DR, centre: 552, 500-DR, Radikal, right: LP12, empty, 500PS, 552PS-DR with a Super Lumina full loom into my NBLs.

PB, I do think ND555 will rock the boat in many ways, even though I’m known of being wrong before. 

If, and I’m sure nothing else matters, Naim is going to be “Best in Class”, they NEED to put out the next best thing, we’ll ahead af CD555 or Linns streamers for an example . Something they have done multiple times before to be honest. We, are not here at the Forum by chance, but by trust and confidence that Naim delivers, again.

So, in Naim we trust again, 25 years later...

//Jonas

Agreed Jonas I feel my NDX will soon be replaced by a ND555 after a home dem of course!

Michael posted:

Polarbear posted:

Michael posted:

Nigel, I and a couple of friends (J.N. and Dark Bear) have found it beneficial to place the NAP500 one single level up from the base level rather than having it sitting on the base level. Is this something you have tried at all?

Hi Michael, the honest answer is no I haven't tried lifting the 500 head unit. Can I ask what you have below your 500?  Is it a spare tier or do you have a black box there?

 

It is something I could consider, the question is going to be the cable dressing issue, the boxes are where they are now to get the best cable dressing.

I have my Linn Radikal under my 500 on the base level, I believe John has his 555PS under his. (John correct me if I am wrong).

So we have from top to bottom, left: CD555, 555PS-DR, NDX, 555PS-DR, centre: 552, 500-DR, Radikal, right: LP12, empty, 500PS, 552PS-DR with a Super Lumina full loom into my NBLs.

 

Interesting Michael, you have the spare tier below the LP12 and not the CD555, also how do you find the cable dressing with the 555 PSU directly under the head units, can you get a decent hang on the Burndies? 

Jonas Olofsson posted:

PB, I do think ND555 will rock the boat in many ways, even though I’m known of being wrong before. 

If, and I’m sure nothing else matters, Naim is going to be “Best in Class”, they NEED to put out the next best thing, we’ll ahead af CD555 or Linns streamers for an example . Something they have done multiple times before to be honest. We, are not here at the Forum by chance, but by trust and confidence that Naim delivers, again.

So, in Naim we trust again, 25 years later...

//Jonas

I am sure my source equipment will remain with Naim for many years to come. My main sources have been Naim and Roksan since 1985 and I see no reason to change now, I will listen to the ND 555 with open ears, whether I will rush in to buy one, we will have to see. I kind of take the attitude, if it aint broke don't fix it these days. My priorities are taking Karen to warmer, sunnier climates and having more away time.

Polarbear posted:

Michael posted:

Polarbear posted:

Michael posted:

Nigel, I and a couple of friends (J.N. and Dark Bear) have found it beneficial to place the NAP500 one single level up from the base level rather than having it sitting on the base level. Is this something you have tried at all?

Hi Michael, the honest answer is no I haven't tried lifting the 500 head unit. Can I ask what you have below your 500?  Is it a spare tier or do you have a black box there?

 

It is something I could consider, the question is going to be the cable dressing issue, the boxes are where they are now to get the best cable dressing.

I have my Linn Radikal under my 500 on the base level, I believe John has his 555PS under his. (John correct me if I am wrong).

So we have from top to bottom, left: CD555, 555PS-DR, NDX, 555PS-DR, centre: 552, 500-DR, Radikal, right: LP12, empty, 500PS, 552PS-DR with a Super Lumina full loom into my NBLs.

 

Interesting Michael, you have the spare tier below the LP12 and not the CD555, also how do you find the cable dressing with the 555 PSU directly under the head units, can you get a decent hang on the Burndies? 

Nigel, at present both my 555PS supplies are connected to my CD555 and the burndies hang fine neither touching the floor. If and when I replace the NDX, which is at present self powered, with the ND555 I shall most likely go back to running the CD555 of one supply and use the other to power the ND555. If the ND555 proves to be substantially better running of two supplies, I have that option.

Michael posted:

Polarbear posted:

Michael posted:

Polarbear posted:

Michael posted:

Nigel, I and a couple of friends (J.N. and Dark Bear) have found it beneficial to place the NAP500 one single level up from the base level rather than having it sitting on the base level. Is this something you have tried at all?

Hi Michael, the honest answer is no I haven't tried lifting the 500 head unit. Can I ask what you have below your 500?  Is it a spare tier or do you have a black box there?

 

It is something I could consider, the question is going to be the cable dressing issue, the boxes are where they are now to get the best cable dressing.

I have my Linn Radikal under my 500 on the base level, I believe John has his 555PS under his. (John correct me if I am wrong).

So we have from top to bottom, left: CD555, 555PS-DR, NDX, 555PS-DR, centre: 552, 500-DR, Radikal, right: LP12, empty, 500PS, 552PS-DR with a Super Lumina full loom into my NBLs.

 

Interesting Michael, you have the spare tier below the LP12 and not the CD555, also how do you find the cable dressing with the 555 PSU directly under the head units, can you get a decent hang on the Burndies? 

Nigel, at present both my 555PS supplies are connected to my CD555 and the burndies hang fine neither touching the floor. If and when I replace the NDX, which is at present self powered, with the ND555 I shall most likely go back to running the CD555 of one supply and use the other to power the ND555. If the ND555 proves to be substantially better running of two supplies, I have that option.

I tried the two 555PSU's when it was first mentioned and it made the CD555 sound too mechanical and analytical for me. I prefer the more organic sound of the single 555PSU, I wonder if this will be the same with the ND555?  Roll on the dealers open days.

Idle curiosity on my part but... 

I’m sure there’s something wrong with this idea but if you have a 555 and an NDS both needing two feeds from a 555ps but you have two they could either have one each or they could both potentially use one output of each supply, on the assumption you wouldn’t play both at the same time they’d each get a bigger share of the two supplies when they are used. set the NDS to floating of course. Has anyone been brave enough or asked Naim for that matter?

yeti42 posted:

Idle curiosity on my part but... 

I’m sure there’s something wrong with this idea but if you have a 555 and an NDS both needing two feeds from a 555ps but you have two they could either have one each or they could both potentially use one output of each supply, on the assumption you wouldn’t play both at the same time they’d each get a bigger share of the two supplies when they are used. set the NDS to floating of course. Has anyone been brave enough or asked Naim for that matter?

That’s an interesting thought and it hadn’t crossed my mind. I would be very interested to know whether that is both possible and advisable!

yeti42 posted:

Idle curiosity on my part but... 

I’m sure there’s something wrong with this idea but if you have a 555 and an NDS both needing two feeds from a 555ps but you have two they could either have one each or they could both potentially use one output of each supply, on the assumption you wouldn’t play both at the same time they’d each get a bigger share of the two supplies when they are used. set the NDS to floating of course. Has anyone been brave enough or asked Naim for that matter?

Interesting, are you suggesting using the two PSU's on the CD555 and then swapping to the ND 555 when you want to stream?  

Sounds a lot of faffing if you ask me?

When you use two 555ps on a 555 you use socket one from one of them and socket two from the other if I understand correctly, this leaves the other sockets, two and one respectively unused and maybe they can be connected to an NDS. There may be an earthing drawback to this but the NDS can float so maybe not. You won’t use 555 and NDS at the same time so only idle currents will feed the unplaying device leaving the playing device to use more of the transformers primaries. It won’t be the same as two feeding one but might give more than two times one feeding one. I’m not advocating this as I’ve no knowledge of its effect but wonder if it’s been tried?

yeti42 posted:

When you use two 555ps on a 555 you use socket one from one of them and socket two from the other if I understand correctly, this leaves the other sockets, two and one respectively unused and maybe they can be connected to an NDS. There may be an earthing drawback to this but the NDS can float so maybe not. You won’t use 555 and NDS at the same time so only idle currents will feed the unplaying device leaving the playing device to use more of the transformers primaries. It won’t be the same as two feeding one but might give more than two times one feeding one. I’m not advocating this as I’ve no knowledge of its effect but wonder if it’s been tried?

Good luck with the cable dressing on that one!

ChrisSU posted:

yeti42 posted:

When you use two 555ps on a 555 you use socket one from one of them and socket two from the other if I understand correctly, this leaves the other sockets, two and one respectively unused and maybe they can be connected to an NDS. There may be an earthing drawback to this but the NDS can float so maybe not. You won’t use 555 and NDS at the same time so only idle currents will feed the unplaying device leaving the playing device to use more of the transformers primaries. It won’t be the same as two feeding one but might give more than two times one feeding one. I’m not advocating this as I’ve no knowledge of its effect but wonder if it’s been tried?

Good luck with the cable dressing on that one!

yeti42 posted:

When you use two 555ps on a 555 you use socket one from one of them and socket two from the other if I understand correctly, this leaves the other sockets, two and one respectively unused and maybe they can be connected to an NDS. There may be an earthing drawback to this but the NDS can float so maybe not. You won’t use 555 and NDS at the same time so only idle currents will feed the unplaying device leaving the playing device to use more of the transformers primaries. It won’t be the same as two feeding one but might give more than two times one feeding one. I’m not advocating this as I’ve no knowledge of its effect but wonder if it’s been tried?

Any updated thoughts on this idea from yeti42?

I wonder whether this idea has ever been run past anyone at Naim?

I've sent an Email to Naim so maybe we'll see.

And here we have it:

Hi,

Technically it would work however I couldn't possibly recommend it as the power supplies would then be having to isolate and sink the electrical noise from two devices rather than one and although the audio signal ground can be floated on the NDS then the combination of multiple devices with multiple power ground paths through to multiple power supplies would really leave the doors open to some interesting (and possibly quite nasty) ground loop effects.

Best Regards

Phil Harris  

That’s quite clear cut, thanks Phil.

Good, now we can put that idea to bed! Thanks Phil.