Time for a change??

Has anyone suggested Avalon speakers yet? Very neutral and transparent, simply a window into the music. The range extends upwards to 6 figure prices so certainly a tall enough upgrade ladder for most normal people

Yes I am biased because I bought a pair last year

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear, for me, loosing the wow factor has to do something with getting older. Music isn‘t the same as music with twenty, and sometimes i miss this intensity very hard. Maybe it is time for something totally different, a nait 2 with Spendor BC 1 or LS 3/5 and a good turntable or a tube based system with horns ????. Christoph

Speak for yourself Christopher, I am not getting old and certainly not ready for the pipes and slippers yet. I have no intention of going out and buying a soft valves and horns based system 

sorry, maybe it is my bad english, nothing with slippers and pipes ????the valve and horns based System i have in mind is fast and brutally clear. 

No, sorry it was me making a tongue in cheek comment about getting old, seriously though I am more than happy with the Prat that Naim gives and I like that upfront exciting sound.

For upfront exciting sound, possibly horns are a solution. I quite fancy trying these one day:

Ferguson Hill FH001 (apparently vasly improved after the already comlimentary reviews, changing to Voxativ drivers having removed a certain midrange prominence). Personally I’d consider maybe with Wilson Benesch Torus sub, rather than the ones shown here.

But might not be good with Naim amps, as they some people say tend to have somewhat more prominent hiss than ideal for such efficient speakers. Maybe that is where tubes come in?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear, for me, loosing the wow factor has to do something with getting older. Music isn‘t the same as music with twenty, and sometimes i miss this intensity very hard. Maybe it is time for something totally different, a nait 2 with Spendor BC 1 or LS 3/5 and a good turntable or a tube based system with horns ????. Christoph

Speak for yourself Christopher, I am not getting old and certainly not ready for the pipes and slippers yet. I have no intention of going out and buying a soft valves and horns based system 

sorry, maybe it is my bad english, nothing with slippers and pipes ????the valve and horns based System i have in mind is fast and brutally clear. 

No, sorry it was me making a tongue in cheek comment about getting old, seriously though I am more than happy with the Prat that Naim gives and I like that upfront exciting sound.

For upfront exciting sound, possibly horns are a solution. I quite fancy trying these one day:

Ferguson Hill FH001 (apparently vasly improved after the already comlimentary reviews, changing to Voxativ drivers having removed a certain midrange prominence). Personally I’d consider maybe with Wilson Benesch Torus sub, rather than the ones shown here.

But might not be good with Naim amps, as they some people say tend to have somewhat more prominent hiss than ideal for such efficient speakers. Maybe that is where tubes come in?

They may not be great with Naim amps but I would certainly like to give that system a listen. It may not be something I could live with and Karen certainly wouldn't live with them. They certainly look like fun though 

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear, for me, loosing the wow factor has to do something with getting older. Music isn‘t the same as music with twenty, and sometimes i miss this intensity very hard. Maybe it is time for something totally different, a nait 2 with Spendor BC 1 or LS 3/5 and a good turntable or a tube based system with horns ????. Christoph

Speak for yourself Christopher, I am not getting old and certainly not ready for the pipes and slippers yet. I have no intention of going out and buying a soft valves and horns based system 

sorry, maybe it is my bad english, nothing with slippers and pipes ????the valve and horns based System i have in mind is fast and brutally clear. 

No, sorry it was me making a tongue in cheek comment about getting old, seriously though I am more than happy with the Prat that Naim gives and I like that upfront exciting sound.

Me too, i love my naim, better than most, i know i will never Go to another brand, but sometimes it is nice to Play with something totally different. It is hard to read and write  in an english forum, because humor and irony is totally different from german and sometimes it is nearly impossible to read between the lines. But i like it, i can learn, and the tolerance in this forum is much greater than in german forums. Thanx for that!

Graham Russell posted:

Has anyone suggested Avalon speakers yet? Very neutral and transparent, simply a window into the music. The range extends upwards to 6 figure prices so certainly a tall enough upgrade ladder for most normal people

Yes I am biased because I bought a pair last year

Which ones did you go fro Graham, they do some lovely speakers 

I went for the "lowly" Transcendent. Such a massive improvement and has really opened up the clarity and transparency in the system. For more "welly" the Compas or Time woud hit the spot, obviously with associated price tags.

I was the first to respond to your plea, tentatively suggesting the new Kudos Titan speaker range. Now I have a better idea what you are after from a new speaker set, being inevitably that elusive musical engagement thing that we all seek more of as we scale the system capability ladder.

You have also more recently in this thread mentioned specifically the impressive Kudos Titan 505. I recently spoke of this speaker on another thread having heard it in the poor conditions of the Bristol show being powered by 'just' a bare Nova, in turn fed directly by a Innuos Zenith server. That was it, no other boxes present. Not sure if this is also where you heard the 505, but I was stunned how wonderful this simple system sounded in such an unhelpful listening room. It made me feel that my multi black box separate Naim Classic system was in need of new speakers. I think I said in the other thread that if I was starting out, I would get a Nova and a pair of 505s, no doubt about it.

I returned to this room at the show 3 or 4 times. To me it was the best room I visited, embarrassing systems many times the price I heard that day. As I have no access to your ears or brain, I cannot be sure these speakers (or their larger siblings) will engage you more in the music. All I know is when I was listening to the Nova/505 system all I was thinking was how great the musical performances were and trying desperately to leave the room so I could get around more of the show. I kept hearing a voice in my head saying...'just one more track, then I'll move on to another room'....and that is the very best sign to me of a great music-making system.

Graham Russell posted:

I went for the "lowly" Transcendent. Such a massive improvement and has really opened up the clarity and transparency in the system. For more "welly" the Compas or Time woud hit the spot, obviously with associated price tags.

Ooo, interesting Graham! Did you post about it? Would love to read about your thoughts etc.

Nothing to see here..back on topic...as you were...now PB about those speakers........!!

Polarbear posted:

Graham Russell posted:

Has anyone suggested Avalon speakers yet? Very neutral and transparent, simply a window into the music. The range extends upwards to 6 figure prices so certainly a tall enough upgrade ladder for most normal people

Yes I am biased because I bought a pair last year

Which ones did you go fro Graham, they do some lovely speakers 

And some not so lovely ones. Not so keen on the ‘Emperor Palpatine joins the KKK’ model

But on a more serious note, I’ve known 2 friends with Avalon Transcendants, one in the UK and one in Japan, but both used American components. One had a Valve preamp with solid state power, the other a solid state pre with Valve power. Both sounded lovely. No idea how they’d work with Naim. My hunch would be that with old school Naim, probably not a good match, but the more recent DR’d stuff could possibly be a combo worth investigating. 

Polarbear posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear, for me, loosing the wow factor has to do something with getting older. Music isn‘t the same as music with twenty, and sometimes i miss this intensity very hard. Maybe it is time for something totally different, a nait 2 with Spendor BC 1 or LS 3/5 and a good turntable or a tube based system with horns ????. Christoph

Speak for yourself Christopher, I am not getting old and certainly not ready for the pipes and slippers yet. I have no intention of going out and buying a soft valves and horns based system 

sorry, maybe it is my bad english, nothing with slippers and pipes ????the valve and horns based System i have in mind is fast and brutally clear. 

No, sorry it was me making a tongue in cheek comment about getting old, seriously though I am more than happy with the Prat that Naim gives and I like that upfront exciting sound.

For upfront exciting sound, possibly horns are a solution. I quite fancy trying these one day:

Ferguson Hill FH001 (apparently vasly improved after the already comlimentary reviews, changing to Voxativ drivers having removed a certain midrange prominence). Personally I’d consider maybe with Wilson Benesch Torus sub, rather than the ones shown here.

But might not be good with Naim amps, as they some people say tend to have somewhat more prominent hiss than ideal for such efficient speakers. Maybe that is where tubes come in?

They may not be great with Naim amps but I would certainly like to give that system a listen. It may not be something I could live with and Karen certainly wouldn't live with them. They certainly look like fun though 

My wife doesn’t like the look either - however I suspect that may be different if she saw them for real, as they are less visible than ‘normal’ large speakers.

I’ve always liked the idea of horns, but whilst they did wonderfully when I ran a rock disco (on my 50w hifi amp - but that’s another story), and truly sounded the part, in domestic surroundings the ones I’ve heard have tended to have a distinctive ‘shouty’ sound that I dislike - but they are renowned for a certain unevenness causing that problem, and good ones can be hard to find. I’d also prefer horn all the way down, but 8ft mouths for the bass are a non-starter. However, these particular ones do intrigue me, and now they’ve got that better and hugely more expensive) drive I would like to experience them.

another vote for pmc mb2's, I run a pair with 555 552 300 all dr and love them. well worth a dem

Dustysox posted:

Graham Russell posted:

I went for the "lowly" Transcendent. Such a massive improvement and has really opened up the clarity and transparency in the system. For more "welly" the Compas or Time woud hit the spot, obviously with associated price tags.

Ooo, interesting Graham! Did you post about it? Would love to read about your thoughts etc.

Nothing to see here..back on topic...as you were...now PB about those speakers........!!

No sorry I didn't post anything. I'd previously moved away from 552/500 so not really appropriate here.

And the solution

https://www.pbteen.com/m/produ...versized-polar-bear/

I’m not sure what I can say, as it’s a well established fact that I know nothing about loudspeakers...

Guru QM10s - Look like black speed cameras, but a useful little LED to tell you they’re really rocking!

Ovator S600s - Bloated bass with no midrange Integration. Not a REAL Naim speaker...

Focal Scala Utopia V2s - OMG! Nasty glassy metallic sounding treble, and worst of all they’re French!

So, I will watch quietly and enjoy the debate... but if you ever want to hear nasty French loudspeakers in a decent room, let me know :-)

Dave.

A pair of IBLs on the long wall.

Chris

Christopher_M posted:

A pair of IBLs on the long wall.

Chris

Peter has already offered me a pair 

nigelb posted:

I was the first to respond to your plea, tentatively suggesting the new Kudos Titan speaker range. Now I have a better idea what you are after from a new speaker set, being inevitably that elusive musical engagement thing that we all seek more of as we scale the system capability ladder.

You have also more recently in this thread mentioned specifically the impressive Kudos Titan 505. I recently spoke of this speaker on another thread having heard it in the poor conditions of the Bristol show being powered by 'just' a bare Nova, in turn fed directly by a Innuos Zenith server. That was it, no other boxes present. Not sure if this is also where you heard the 505, but I was stunned how wonderful this simple system sounded in such an unhelpful listening room. It made me feel that my multi black box separate Naim Classic system was in need of new speakers. I think I said in the other thread that if I was starting out, I would get a Nova and a pair of 505s, no doubt about it.

I returned to this room at the show 3 or 4 times. To me it was the best room I visited, embarrassing systems many times the price I heard that day. As I have no access to your ears or brain, I cannot be sure these speakers (or their larger siblings) will engage you more in the music. All I know is when I was listening to the Nova/505 system all I was thinking was how great the musical performances were and trying desperately to leave the room so I could get around more of the show. I kept hearing a voice in my head saying...'just one more track, then I'll move on to another room'....and that is the very best sign to me of a great music-making system.

Evening Nigel, yes I was talking about the Naim/Kudos room at the Bristol show, one of the best show showings I have heard for a long time. So simple, clear and musical. Karen I were blown away with the sound. We only visited a handful of rooms, the Kudos two, the Neats and the Naims, we didn't visit any other rooms as the sound coming from the rooms was appalling.

We sat there listening for many tracks, chatting to Derek and Dave of Kudos, Bristol is more of a socialising event for us nowadays and great music is a bonus.  It was a shame to hear the bigger Kudos murdered next door by the Audioquest room, shocking sound!

Graham Russell posted:

I went for the "lowly" Transcendent. Such a massive improvement and has really opened up the clarity and transparency in the system. For more "welly" the Compas or Time woud hit the spot, obviously with associated price tags.

There is nothing lowly about the Transcendent speakers Graham, they have a beautifully balanced open sound.

I would certainly liked to have read about your experience :-)

Innocent Bystander posted:

Polarbear posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear posted:

christoph posted:

Polarbear, for me, loosing the wow factor has to do something with getting older. Music isn‘t the same as music with twenty, and sometimes i miss this intensity very hard. Maybe it is time for something totally different, a nait 2 with Spendor BC 1 or LS 3/5 and a good turntable or a tube based system with horns ????. Christoph

Speak for yourself Christopher, I am not getting old and certainly not ready for the pipes and slippers yet. I have no intention of going out and buying a soft valves and horns based system 

sorry, maybe it is my bad english, nothing with slippers and pipes ????the valve and horns based System i have in mind is fast and brutally clear. 

No, sorry it was me making a tongue in cheek comment about getting old, seriously though I am more than happy with the Prat that Naim gives and I like that upfront exciting sound.

For upfront exciting sound, possibly horns are a solution. I quite fancy trying these one day:

Ferguson Hill FH001 (apparently vasly improved after the already comlimentary reviews, changing to Voxativ drivers having removed a certain midrange prominence). Personally I’d consider maybe with Wilson Benesch Torus sub, rather than the ones shown here.

But might not be good with Naim amps, as they some people say tend to have somewhat more prominent hiss than ideal for such efficient speakers. Maybe that is where tubes come in?

They may not be great with Naim amps but I would certainly like to give that system a listen. It may not be something I could live with and Karen certainly wouldn't live with them. They certainly look like fun though 

My wife doesn’t like the look either - however I suspect that may be different if she saw them for real, as they are less visible than ‘normal’ large speakers.

I’ve always liked the idea of horns, but whilst they did wonderfully when I ran a rock disco (on my 50w hifi amp - but that’s another story), and truly sounded the part, in domestic surroundings the ones I’ve heard have tended to have a distinctive ‘shouty’ sound that I dislike - but they are renowned for a certain unevenness causing that problem, and good ones can be hard to find. I’d also prefer horn all the way down, but 8ft mouths for the bass are a non-starter. However, these particular ones do intrigue me, and now they’ve got that better and hugely more expensive) drive I would like to experience them.

Karen's open to all sorts of idea's and in the right house she would love a pair, Karen is more futuristic than I am. We have heard some great horn based systems, mainly at the HI-fi Wigwam Scalford show, if you ever get the chance to go you should. There are loads of eclectic systems, some are bloody awful but some of them memorise you with their sound. Its a great way of seeing so many weird and wonderful systems under one roof :-)

DaveBk posted:

I’m not sure what I can say, as it’s a well established fact that I know nothing about loudspeakers...

Guru QM10s - Look like black speed cameras, but a useful little LED to tell you they’re really rocking!

Ovator S600s - Bloated bass with no midrange Integration. Not a REAL Naim speaker...

Focal Scala Utopia V2s - OMG! Nasty glassy metallic sounding treble, and worst of all they’re French!

So, I will watch quietly and enjoy the debate... but if you ever want to hear nasty French loudspeakers in a decent room, let me know :-)

Dave.

You have owned some great speakers Dave and have so much to offer potential speaker buyers, you also have a great taste in shoes 

tony abraham posted:

another vote for pmc mb2's, I run a pair with 555 552 300 all dr and love them. well worth a dem

Noted, I will have another listen at some point 

yeti42 posted:

I heard the Ktemas at a show a couple of years ago and they were the most enjoyable I heard all day, however, they only played jazz and some vocal music, intriguing though, can you still buy them?

Yes, the company is still around and has introduced a third speaker posthumously. It is called Lignea and can be seen as a modern Minima, just as the Accordo is the modern Cremona Auditor. The last Serblin designed Sonus faber speakers, like the Auditor, were clearly able to handle non-acoustic music, at least to ears. The Serblin named company is run by a son in law of Franco Serblin.

Polarbear posted:

nigelb posted:

I was the first to respond to your plea, tentatively suggesting the new Kudos Titan speaker range. Now I have a better idea what you are after from a new speaker set, being inevitably that elusive musical engagement thing that we all seek more of as we scale the system capability ladder.

You have also more recently in this thread mentioned specifically the impressive Kudos Titan 505. I recently spoke of this speaker on another thread having heard it in the poor conditions of the Bristol show being powered by 'just' a bare Nova, in turn fed directly by a Innuos Zenith server. That was it, no other boxes present. Not sure if this is also where you heard the 505, but I was stunned how wonderful this simple system sounded in such an unhelpful listening room. It made me feel that my multi black box separate Naim Classic system was in need of new speakers. I think I said in the other thread that if I was starting out, I would get a Nova and a pair of 505s, no doubt about it.

I returned to this room at the show 3 or 4 times. To me it was the best room I visited, embarrassing systems many times the price I heard that day. As I have no access to your ears or brain, I cannot be sure these speakers (or their larger siblings) will engage you more in the music. All I know is when I was listening to the Nova/505 system all I was thinking was how great the musical performances were and trying desperately to leave the room so I could get around more of the show. I kept hearing a voice in my head saying...'just one more track, then I'll move on to another room'....and that is the very best sign to me of a great music-making system.

Evening Nigel, yes I was talking about the Naim/Kudos room at the Bristol show, one of the best show showings I have heard for a long time. So simple, clear and musical. Karen I were blown away with the sound. We only visited a handful of rooms, the Kudos two, the Neats and the Naims, we didn't visit any other rooms as the sound coming from the rooms was appalling.

We sat there listening for many tracks, chatting to Derek and Dave of Kudos, Bristol is more of a socialising event for us nowadays and great music is a bonus.  It was a shame to hear the bigger Kudos murdered next door by the Audioquest room, shocking sound!

Yes, it was the 606s I really wanted to hear and it is a shame they were 'wasted' on an Audioquest cable and power block demo, even though they were powered by an active Linn rig. On previous occasions, I have heard the 707s powered by full Naim rigs (Classic and 500 series) in both passive and active modes. On both occasions and they too were extremely impressive. But that Nova/505 demo was something else - magical. Possibly because, as HH intimated, expectations were relatively low.

Clearly there is a chemistry (others might call it a synergy) between the new Kudos Titan range and Naim kit IMHO. Indeed Derek, at the show, told me how he had used Naim gear in the design and refinement of the new Kudos Titan range. I am guessing these are on your shortlist and I would be fascinated to hear if these speakers give you the x factor, the engagement, you now seek. Speakers form other manufacturers are of course available!

I think Christopher M has it! Moth ball the Arts. Buy some legacy classic speakers (Kan, SBL etc). Enjoy the ride and switch the Arts back in when you start to crave some more refinement. 

Cheap solution too!

Stu

I forget your taste in music, Nigel, and have not heard the by all reports much improved Kudos ~Titans. I was very underwhelmed by the 1st generation ones compared to my SL2s. If you mainly listen to music that is played through amplification and box speakers in live performance, then the new ones could be a great choice and you obviously enjoyed the presentation of their younger siblings. However, if you like live acoustic and large-scale classical in particular, you owe it to yourself to listen to some big Shahinians. They have completely transformed my satisfaction with hi-fi.