DAC

I don't know if it helps nocker but I also have the SN2 and a CD5XS cd player which I use as a transport with the Naim Dac

I found the Naim Dac a massive upgrade, sound wise, to the CD5XS used on it's own

Oh yes, nDAC big upgrade over HDX that I have.

Perhaps also wait and compare the new NDX2 vs nDAC ? I'll be doing that exact comparison. Trade in your NDX to the mk2 version and what you were going to spend on the nDAC may be very close.

(pending what you like in the demo. of course...)

Filipe posted:

The nDAC, NDS, CDX2 and better CDPs from Naim use the 1704K DAC chip which I understand Naim have secured in sufficient numbers for the future and to repair existing boxes. Such is their understanding and love of that chip that it is to be kept alive in the ND555!

The NDX and others use a different DAC from Burr Browne (?) I believe. There are Naim White Papers for those who want the inside story.

With a PS555DR at nearly 2-3 times the price of the nDAC you get something very special. However as I have never heard a Chord DAC in my system I am not I a position to pass judgement. I just know that I am amazed by nDAC + 555.

So yes IMO the OP would get a significant upgrade if he connected his HDX or NDX via nDAC + PS. Can’t say what would be best VFM for his system.

Phil

The NDAC, 555PS is quite special, I enjoyed mine for severeal years... it certainly has an enjoyable and ‘organic’ type sound... especially with the previous firmware.

However time has moved on as with technology, and there are better in terms of reconstruction accuracy solutions out there now, and to me that is quite evident on how I enjoy and appreciate recordings. More recent technology and engineering has allowed some of the compromises to be narrowed... however better doesn’t necessarily mean more enjoyable to all ... it depends on how you listen and your brain subconciously analyzes  audio and music and obviously how the architecture is implemented... Current recording and replay technology is still light years from reality, ie what some audio scientists and engineers call true high definition.... so it’s about choosing the set of compromises that work best for you.

its also probably fair to say to develop and get the most out of a particular DAC and DSP architecture as opposed to a simple quality functioning one takes many many years of experience... this has been the case for Naim and Chord Electronics for example.... Therefore one can understand why Naim want to stick with the effectively obsolete Texas Instruments PCM 1704K, and focus on the low pass analogue filter and constant current circuitry down stream... and the Analog Devices oversampling and digital low pass filter processor (SHARC) up stream...it’s what they know best ...  I guess one is at the cusp between engineering and craftsmanship here.....

What about a nDAC upgrade on  DVD5 ?

What do you think folks ?

Regards

Roberto

Roberto, I have done this before.  However there are some issues - being DVD, the DVD5 is a bit clunkier to use than a normal CD transport.  Second, you need to ensure that it is set up right - PCM 2 channel out and all unneeded bits switched off (switch off video functions too with display defeat).  That done, the DVD5 worked pretty well, and sounded good, albeit I found that it had a bit of a warmth "bump" that was sometimes nice, but sometimes annoying.  I used a Naim DC1 coax cable for my testing.

Oh yes, one more issue - like any DVD-A player, you couldn't output the MLP (DVD-Audio) Hi-res digital signal via the s/pdif.  So, for DVD-A you were often best advised to output directly from the analogue output of the DVD5.

By the way, when used just as a DVD Audio player, the DVD5 could sound really good.  Take a great sounding DVD-A such as one of the Grateful Dead albums (Workingman's Dead was a favourite of mine) and be amazed...

Do a search, Richard was rather enthusiastic when the NDAC was new I seem to remember.

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your precious info. Actually  i like it very much already like it is alone. Especially the one in my basement system with Nait XS and nSat.

At the moment i' m looking The Catch tv series and it really sounds great.

Regards

Roberto

NOCKER,

if the DAC in the NDX is better than the HDX, have you tried....

1. HDX digital out to NDX;

2. HDX as a server to NDX ?

I wonder what difference/benefits either would/wouldn't have. 

I've owned both, currently NDX & US.  I would consider when funds allowed replacing the US with another HDX just for the hell of it.

Ray.

The nDac is only special to only the most blind (deaf) die-hard NAIM fans. I've auditioned it and of course found it needed an external PS to sound its best but the reality is that its technology is about a decade old and there are other brands that offer orders of magnitude better detail retrieval. 

Compare with a Schiit Yiggy/Yggdrasil (with the Analog2 board fed by EITR). If you have to stick with a British brand, try Chord Dave or Metrum Acoustics Pavane and/or Onyx.

I'm seriously thinking about getting a Chord Dave to run between my Core & 272.  It's either that or a 555PS for my 272.  An out of town Naim & Chord dealer thinks that I'll get the biggest bang for my buck with the Dave.  I've read a lot of positive comments about it, some from Naim owners.  Yes, it looks a little weird - guess that gives it character.  I can live with it.  Another thing that motivates me is that I'm getting a good deal on a black demo Dave & stand.  Decisions, decisions.....

If I was looking at acquiring the Dave, I would also be considering TotalDac, dCS, Nagra, possibly PS Audio and.. ND555 for I still believe the streaming function should be integrated with the DAC section. 

Chag -

DynFan160 posted:

The nDac is only special to only the most blind (deaf) die-hard NAIM fans.

 

Why do you think you can just come onto the Forum and insult people? Your views are your views only.
You have absolutely no reason to impose them by derrogating views of others.
This Forum is about mutual help and respect - clearly the values you seem to have fogotten.

Chag... posted:

If I was looking at acquiring the Dave, I would also be considering TotalDac, dCS, Nagra, possibly PS Audio and.. ND555 for I still believe the streaming function should be integrated with the DAC section. 

Chag -

I disagree: in my view the streaming function is better combined with the music store, to remove the network from the equation - whilst some people have even very basic networks that work perfectly, it is clear from many posts on the forum that it not infrequently is a cause of problems - and also then there is no need to fret about whether better ethernet cables, better switches, better power supplies for the switches etcetera will make a difference (of course, on the downside that removes an area of tweakery for those who like to do that!)

DynFan160 posted:

The nDac is only special to only the most blind (deaf) die-hard NAIM fans. I've auditioned it and of course found it needed an external PS to sound its best but the reality is that its technology is about a decade old and there are other brands that offer orders of magnitude better detail retrieval. 

Compare with a Schiit Yiggy/Yggdrasil (with the Analog2 board fed by EITR). If you have to stick with a British brand, try Chord Dave or Metrum Acoustics Pavane and/or Onyx.

 

Dynfan160,

you may not prefer the Naim DAC compared to other DACs, but that's your own opinion and your own preference. Please try to avoid the mistake of thinking that anyone who does not agree with your preference is thus wrong (or in your words "blind" or "deaf").  Such an attitude might well be taken as a projection on your part...

Utmost "detail" is not the be all and end all behind great sound, and the age of the technology is immaterial here - after all many (including myself)  still love the performance of some players that used the ancient Philips TDA1541A DAC chipset - and that's a dinosaur by comparison. 

Personally, I like the Naim DAC very much, even in its plain vanilla form. I have a few other DACs too (including Chord Hugo), and get to listen to others from time to time.  The Naim DAC does what it does well (play music in an engaging way), very well indeed, and within the context of my all-Naim system, is still my preferred DAC to pair with the Uniti Core. 

That's my preference at the moment.  If you prefer something else, then by all means, after all, I'm sure you aren't "deaf" or "blind" either...

DynFan160 posted:

The nDac is only special to only the most blind (deaf) die-hard NAIM fans. I've auditioned it and of course found it needed an external PS to sound its best but the reality is that its technology is about a decade old and there are other brands that offer orders of magnitude better detail retrieval. 

So you're saying that DAC can't sound special if it's designed 10 years ago? This also means that any CDP designed over 10 years ago can't sound special. Also you're judging DACs by how much detail they can retrieve from the recording? Protip: Judge them by how well they play music. 

If I understood correctly, Naim is using the same "obsolete" DAC chip (1704K) in the upcoming new streamer range. Must be something special there.

Patu, good points, but you don’t need to put quotes around the word obsolete, according to its manufacturer, Texas Instruments, it is indeed obsolete, but that doesn’t stop Naim wishing to use it  and obtaining a supply of the chips if they feel it is the right component for them to provide the type of sound and performance they are familiar and experienced in designing for.. As I say I believe this starts to transition from engineering into craftsmanship .. There is a lot of technical community fondness, support and interest still in the PCM1704, so being obsolete definitely doesn’t  mean it’s dead.

Now, if you want to talk about obsolete DAC chips, perhaps it's worthwhile going back in time to the launch of Naim's first CD player, the CDS. That used a DAC chipset that was by then considered obsolete and curiously old fashioned.

I seem to recall though that most who heard the CDS quickly forgot any thoughts of old fashioned tech once they listened to it..

I had the super duper Deltec PDM1 courtesy of Mr Rob Watts of Chord fame in those days, it as renowned for very clean sound. I was quite happy with that until the Naim CDS came along, not sure looking back how I managed to afford it, BUT I had to have it. It was so musical by comparison, obsolete chips or not.

Gazza posted:

I had the super duper Deltec PDM1 courtesy of Mr Rob Watts 

Yes - some interesting stuff came out of DPA. 

james n posted:

Gazza posted:

I had the super duper Deltec PDM1 courtesy of Mr Rob Watts 

Yes - some interesting stuff came out of DPA. 

It did. My first Dac was a DPA Little Bit, to which I later added its companion mains filter.  Using a Philips CD player as transport, that combination kept me happy for quite a few years.

My first was the little Audio Alchemy ‘Dac in the box’. It was pretty good I recall. Later upgraded to a Roksan transport & dac. Again pretty good...then Cyrus transport & dac which was not such a smart move.

G

out of all the D/A conversion solutions out there I have to say Chord Mojo is the one I love the most and use the most as it just goes everywhere with me.

It's priced to be accessible at 400 GBP and sounds great

NDAC just can't do the things Mojo can do.

Now if Naim would kindly release something like the Mojo?

analogmusic posted:

out of all the D/A conversion solutions out there I have to say Chord Mojo is the one I love the most and use the most as it just goes everywhere with me.

It's priced to be accessible at 400 GBP and sounds great

NDAC just can't do the things Mojo can do.

Now if Naim would kindly release something like the Mojo?

 

Wow, you prefer Mojo to Dave? I haven’t heard Mojo, but I’m astounded!

Alba1320 posted:

Remember, Adam, that according to some, anyone who has the 'temerity' to like a Naim  product is, by definition, a brainwashed/brain-dead/deaf, 'Naim sheep'... apparently.

It appears to me that some here like any product that has a Naim logo on it, and treat considering alternatives like an irrational impulse as “nothing is ever better than the Naim equivalent”. 

Perhaps Dynfan phrased things a bit too trenchantly but I certainly understand where he’s coming from. 

As I said earlier in this thread I consider a new nDAC a very poor proposition in 2018. Of course it still sounds as good as it did 10 years ago, so does the NDX but no one would be recommending to buy one new today (but were 2 months ago). 

.sjb

Innocent Bystander posted:

analogmusic posted:

out of all the D/A conversion solutions out there I have to say Chord Mojo is the one I love the most and use the most as it just goes everywhere with me.

It's priced to be accessible at 400 GBP and sounds great

NDAC just can't do the things Mojo can do.

Now if Naim would kindly release something like the Mojo?

 

Wow, you prefer Mojo to Dave? I haven’t heard Mojo, but I’m astounded!

I much prefer Dave, but then look at the costs. 400 GBP for Mojo, and it goes everywhere, 8000 GBP for Dave.

My point is that Mojo is for everyone. good Music replay should be accessible to everyone.

Because Mojo is so small and portable, I tend to use it a lot more than Dave.

Can't complain though, Chord have made Dave small enough (compared to say a full stack of DCS) - or even the NDS/555 which is a very heavy piece of equipment !