Black Diamond Racing.....someone here who try'd this.

I tried the black diamond cones under a naim Nait 5i about 10 years ago - it was during  the tweak phase of my audiophile life.  They didn't last in the setup too long.  I no longer mess around with tweaks - they get expensive (inevitably you try several "inexpensive" options and it adds up), deliver unpredictable results and waste a lot of time with regards to evaluation.  Stick with a good (proven) audio stand and established system/cable synergies.    

Peder posted:

I have seen this alot of times,but never listen to them,anyone here with experience of Black Diamond Racing ?

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Black Diamond Racing
The Pyramid Cones
Have you ever wanted to trade up your speakers to something that will give you tighter, better defined bass, improved upper bass and midrange clarity, more focused soundstaging, but you know you'd have to lay down another one to two kilobucks, or more, to get that notch up in performance. Well, that's the type of improvement I got with $120 worth of cones under my stands!

???? Furthermore, these little fellas improved my DAC! The DAC improvement wasn't nearly as great as with my speakers, but still, compared to what upgrading your DAC (or other electronic components) cost, I think you owe it to yourself to read on.

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/Peder

i use finite elemente cerabases under my speakers, it was a fantastic upgrade for me: better clarity, bass, details....

French Rooster,I have a friend who also have this Finite Elemente Cerabases....and as you, like them. Another friend who has the forum Euphonia Audioforum,has alot of Black Diamond Racing products....and like them.

Everything matters,depends on room,racks and other things in the setup/installation. Darke Bear has a great write-up about this in other threads.

/Peder

I don't have any high end equipment racks/stands. I have a tripod metal and wood stand in the lounge and an entry level Finite Elemente stand in the dining room. I use BDR pucks and cones under my turntable, CD transport and amps. They make a noticeable improvement to my ears and I much prefer listening with them in the system. I had a solid BDR shelf under my turntable, which made the biggest improvement of all, but had to sell it when I needed cash some years ago.

Anything that helps reduce microphonic vibrations like Naim's ball bearing in a triangle fraim design, stillpoints, ceraballs etc can be worth the investment if you like the effect it has. For me, the BDR stuff had only positive effects, but some may find differently in their systems.

Peder posted:

French Rooster,I have a friend who also have this Finite Elemente Cerabases....and as you, like them. Another friend who has the forum Euphonia Audioforum,has alot of Black Diamond Racing products....and like them.

Everything matters,depends on room,racks and other things in the setup/installation. Darke Bear has a great write-up about this in other threads.

/Peder

yes, there are a lot of other possibilities and each is system dependent as you said.  Stillpoints, a bit expensive, have very good press,....hrs damping plates, or isoacoutics gaia( not very expensive), or also townsend stands under speakers.... and very probably the diamond racings.

I order today one set of BDR mk3 cones,and one set of mk4 cones.....shall be fun to try this under my streamer,dac and pre-amp.

Another thing,......about feets and Cisco's,a friend who lives in Gothenburg, called me today and told me about some cheap rubberfeets that he has found to his Cisco-switch. If you know Linn's levels.....Akurate to Klimax level. The different was as big as that if we talk soundquality he told me .

It's all about to find synergy in the system,sometimes......it can be cheap,not often....but sometime .

This guy is a real High End-guy,I mean....he has 100% control what he's doing,so it's not "snake-oil here". Sorry, I can't give you the link to this rubberfeets....forumrules you now.

/Peder

i have already rubber feets under the cisco, but honestly i don’t think it changed something.

Finite elemente cerabases under speakers, cerapucks under the fraimlite and my preamp and amp.

The most effective is under my tube preamp, rack and speakers. Under the nds it changed nothing.

My power block sits on a granite base and also my turntable.

I hope you will enjoy your bdr.

French Rooster,hope too,but...just fun to test it,you don't know before you have test it .

About my friend,he has the famous swedish Harmoni-hyllan rack with the best alu top-shelf.....cost around 40 000:- swedish money. The better soundquality can depends on a combination between alu-shelf and rubberfeet.....maybee,I don't know. But for sure,higher soundquality is there....trust me.

Next thing is to torgue the Cisco's audioboard,I have heard that the Nm shall be between 0,4 to 1,0Nm. Naim have worked a long time with torgue on there speakers,so this shall be fun to try.

As I say earlier,you newer know before you have test it.

/Peder ???? 

torgue the cisco audioboard?   what it is?

Sorry,I mean torque ????...torque-settings.

/Peder ???? 

never heard about it... and Simon in the Suffolk who advise these switches have never talked about torque settings.  But maybe there is something to adjust  , no idea.  But honestly i doubt it will change anything as effective step.  just subtle.

I just observe that you are very polarized on these cisco switches, adding rubber feets, searching if cisco 3560 would be better, now these torque adjustments....

All these tweaks give very minimal effects on sound quality.  Buy a high quality lan as chord indigo, or high quality power cords like chord music t, or kharma reference power cord, if you want effective tweaks.   Good isolation under speakers, like iso acoustics gaia, finite elemente cerabases.... Bdr will have minor effects, these are just simple cheap cones, there are thousands cones like that on the market.

Just my opinion, but always searching little tweaks kills the enjoyment of music and adds very subtle changes.    Effective sound upgrade have a cost.   

Peder posted:

Next thing is to torgue the Cisco's audioboard,I have heard that the Nm shall be between 0,4 to 1,0Nm. 

This sounds like stuff on the Lejonklou forum. There are lots of things that can make a difference to our enjoyment of music from our systems but you have to draw the line somewhere...

Sorry,I don't have time now to write....but can say,....every thing matters "Attention To Detail".

Naim has used torque-settings for a long time,my sons Allae-speakers from 2003 has recommended torque's for stand,tweter,bas/mid .

If you haven't try'ed,.....do that,....after that we can talk ????????....."Be Openminded".

This is things you do when you do a real systeminstallattion,,if you don't know about this things, you have alot to learn about system-setup. I will don't offended you,just talk clear about this.

I just write a little about this under Streaming-thread.....Interconnect.

We can talk later,must go .....see you ???????? 

little tweaks can have never end:  some are changing fuses in their amps, some are going to entreq components, or changing the tweeters, changing the racks, or adding different bass traps...it can never end.

I had this tweakery mania before, but today i am tired of it and prefer waiting for major upgrades and enjoy music in the moment.

james n posted:

Peder posted:

Next thing is to torgue the Cisco's audioboard,I have heard that the Nm shall be between 0,4 to 1,0Nm. 

This sounds like stuff on the Lejonklou forum. There are lots of things that can make a difference to our enjoyment of music from our systems but you have to draw the line somewhere...

James, I agree,but before you draw the line you must know about it,otherwise you can't draw the line ????.

If you do this things right,you can get a £5000:- system sing more than a £20 000:- system.

French Rooster posted:

little tweaks can have never end:  some are changing fuses in their amps, some are going to entreq components, or changing the tweeters, changing the racks, or adding different bass traps...it can never end.

I had this tweakery mania before, but today i am tired of it and prefer waiting for major upgrades and enjoy music in the moment.

 

Short,this isn't tweaks.......this is parts in a real system-installation. As I said earlier,Naim also do this....se what I write about speaker.

Peder posted:

Sorry,I don't have time now to write....but can say,....every thing matters "Attention To Detail".

Naim has used torque-settings for a long time,my sons Allae-speakers from 2003 has recommended torque's for stand,tweter,bas/mid .

If you haven't try'ed,.....do that,....after that we can talk ????????....."Be Openminded".

This is things you do when you do a real systeminstallattion,,if you don't know about this things, you have alot to learn about system-setup. I will don't offended you,just talk clear about this.

I just write a little about this under Streaming-thread.....Interconnect.

We can talk later,must go .....see you ???????? 

I am upgrading and optimizing my system since 20 years now, having tried a lot of different components, with different dealers....i don’t think i have to learn more about system set-up today, because i have optimized a lot of things in my room:  experiencing different power cords, interconnects, racks, bass traps, decoupling components, different cartridges, full network optimization....and i feel it is enough today. My system is well balanced today.

For me it is time to enjoy the system i builded.

In the future i will upgrade my speakers and all interconnects and power cords.  But these upgrades are not tweaks or optimization.  

.But if  you want to take the route of never ending optimization, it is your choice:   you can rebuild your roof, test different room acoustics tweaks, add entreq components, test different power conditioners, change some components in your amps,  try different cisco switches, experiment different racks...and the list will never end.

French Rooster posted:

Peder posted:

Sorry,I don't have time now to write....but can say,....every thing matters "Attention To Detail".

Naim has used torque-settings for a long time,my sons Allae-speakers from 2003 has recommended torque's for stand,tweter,bas/mid .

If you haven't try'ed,.....do that,....after that we can talk ????????....."Be Openminded".

This is things you do when you do a real systeminstallattion,,if you don't know about this things, you have alot to learn about system-setup. I will don't offended you,just talk clear about this.

I just write a little about this under Streaming-thread.....Interconnect.

We can talk later,must go .....see you ???????? 

I am upgrading and optimizing my system since 20 years now, having tried a lot of different components, with different dealers....i don’t think i have to learn more about system set-up today, because i have optimized a lot of things in my room:  experiencing different power cords, interconnects, racks, bass traps, decoupling components, different cartridges, full network optimization....and i feel it is enough today. My system is well balanced today.

For me it is time to enjoy the system i builded.

In the future i will upgrade my speakers and all interconnects and power cords.  But these upgrades are not tweaks or optimization.  

.But if  you want to take the route of never ending optimization, it is your choice:   you can rebuild your roof, test different room acoustics tweaks, add entreq components, test different power conditioners, change some components in your amps,  try different cisco switches, experiment different racks...and the list will never end.

+1

Tweaking is an absolutely fantastic way of finding out what's "right" for your own ears and discovering aspects that suits for your tastes.

Once you have it under focus "that" which pleases - making choices in upgrades is easier.   More easier if those upgrades do not require tweaks to fulfill its potential.

Less tweaks, less faff and less nervous moments wondering if it's been successfully optimised.   But it is always reasonable to keep an open mind. 

«  finding what’s right for your own ears «  and « discovering aspects that suit our tastes » is exactly where i am today and «  making choices in upgrades is easier «  now for me.  The time for tweaking and optimization has ended for me.  Time for clear upgrades now, when money will permit ....

Peder posted:

French Rooster posted:

little tweaks can have never end:  some are changing fuses in their amps, some are going to entreq components, or changing the tweeters, changing the racks, or adding different bass traps...it can never end.

I had this tweakery mania before, but today i am tired of it and prefer waiting for major upgrades and enjoy music in the moment.

 

Short,this isn't tweaks.......this is parts in a real system-installation. As I said earlier,Naim also do this....se what I write about speaker.

you are right Peder, these optimization -tweaks are essential, very important.  But for me it has ended now.    If you think there is never end, i think it is a problem.....as for my point of view.

I'm 60 years old,so I  know where I shall "spill my beans" in this interest. I do a proper system installation and than listen to music,but under the years a have learned alot......and every day I learn more. An example.........

◾ about feets and Cisco's,a friend who lives in Gothenburg, called me today and told me about some cheap rubberfeets that he has found to his Cisco-switch. If you know Linn's levels.....Akurate to Klimax level. The different was as big as that if we talk soundquality he told me◾ 

It's you who talk about a never ending optimization,....not me❗ You put words in my mouth that I never had say.

But pot up a top-level system can take up to a year, if you shall take care of everything in your home. As I say in another thread,the method Tune-Dem, is extremely good to use when you do a system-installation. Coming from the Linn/Naim world. It's a little difficult to learn,but when you are familier with the method,the result is often extremly good.

/Peder ???? 

There is a fine line between tweaks and due care to system installation I think. If you can fit it, forget it and not be able to put up without it, then it's all good.

It's fine with me if some here don't will have out the most of there system,...however, I and my friends will. The forum I have here in sweden,we have never had a discussion like this.

If you don't believe in torque-settings,....fine,don't do it.....but,Naim use it and Darke Bear here,has also write about how important it is to do that on your speaker. The decision is yours,can only say....sorry for your lost of soundquality and musicality in your system.

An example,.....If you have an ordinary mec-guy who do a good job with your car engine,the same guy can't do a good job on a FI-race car engine. We talk about FI car-engine here, if you understand what I mean.

That's the level I and my friends are on,excuse me to be so clear. A question,what method do you use when you do a system-installation ❓ 

/Peder ???? 

Peder posted:

I'm 60 years old,so I  know where I shall "spill my beans" in this interest. I do a proper system installation and than listen to music,but under the years a have learned alot......and every day I learn more. An example.........

◾ about feets and Cisco's,a friend who lives in Gothenburg, called me today and told me about some cheap rubberfeets that he has found to his Cisco-switch. If you know Linn's levels.....Akurate to Klimax level. The different was as big as that if we talk soundquality he told me◾ 

It's you who talk about a never ending optimization,....not me❗ You put words in my mouth that I never had say.

But pot up a top-level system can take up to a year, if you shall take care of everything in your home. As I say in another thread,the method Tune-Dem, is extremely good to use when you do a system-installation. Coming from the Linn/Naim world. It's a little difficult to learn,but when you are familier with the method,the result is often extremly good.

/Peder ???? 

 

i say never ending because you are always wanting to upgrade the cisco switch since more than one year now.  Sorry, but you were asking the same last year if cisco 3560 is better than 2960 you already have, now rubber feet under the cisco and some torque optimization on the cisco.....  For me i have this cisco 8tc factory reset, the sound is very good, and i am happy with it.    

Peder posted:

It's fine with me if some here don't will have out the most of there system,...however, I and my friends will. The forum I have here in sweden,we have never had a discussion like this.

If you don't believe in torque-settings,....fine,don't do it.....but,Naim use it and Darke Bear here,has also write about how important it is to do that on your speaker. The decision is yours,can only say....sorry for your lost of soundquality and musicality in your system.

An example,.....If you have an ordinary mec-guy who do a good job with your car engine,the same guy can't do a good job on a FI-race car engine. We talk about FI car-engine here, if you understand what I mean.

That's the level I and my friends are on,excuse me to be so clear. A question,what method do you use when you do a system-installation ❓ 

/Peder ???? 

 

Peder - i can understand why torque settings are important on electro mechanical devices such as speakers and turntables which rely on well defined energy transfer and energy dissipation paths - this all makes sense. For a device like an Ethernet router and the tightness of the PCB fixings, then that takes it a bit far for me -  If it works for you and your friends then that's good. I take a lot of care with the installation of my own kit to get the best out of it. Constant fiddling would become detrimental to the enjoyment of my music collection and (to me) would point to more serious issues elsewhere. 

James