FM switch off cancelled

I was reading the same Derek in the Mail & Digital Spy.    I'm not sure how this will work,  I suspect it's a political move to promote discussion.   Its not actually BBC's decision to keep or switch off FM,  it's up to HM.Gov DCMS & for them to direct Ofcom.  BBC don't actually do the broadcasting,  they are the same as all other radio & TV stations, they provide a stream to the transmitter & network owners.        

Copy/past of the Mail  "The BBC has cancelled plans to switch off FM radio broadcasts and force millions of listeners to tune into digital transmissions.   The corporation is set to announce FM will remain as part of a 'hybrid' future that will operate alongside DAB and the internet.   Bob Shennan, the director of BBC radio and music, will confirm the scrapping tomorrow, The Daily Telegraph reports. He will also urge broadcasters to work together to ensure the survival of radio, saying Government plants to switch of analogue broadcast could restrict listeners' choice".

Perhaps the information is provided in a way that the punter can understand, ie it is the BBC they listen to - not the transmission company.  Afterall the story was in the Telegraph and their readership will not understand the technical process.

The way the story was reported in Broadcasting House on Radio 4 was by an almost technically illiterate person whose confusion with DAB and internet was quite interestiing 

A sign! At least there may be hope for the NAT01 owners on here who appreciate the quality of broadcasts on BBC R3 FM.

I see your point about the readership will not understand the technical process & ditto the journalists.  

I read some more & yes it is a political initiative:   Bob Shennan, director of BBC radio and music, is making a speech tomorrow (19th) at a radio industry conference in Vienna in which he will appeal to commercial broadcasters to collaborate with BBC to ensure radio adapts to new technologies. …..... NB “New Technologies”     

He will also say ….... audiences want choice …... DAB is important, but only a part of the story, along with FM and the internet …........ broadcasters should maintain analogue broadcasting indefinitely in part to protect traditional strongholds such as listening in cars.  

Re new technologies, he will open up the changes coming with mobile internet,  streaming apps including Spotify & Apple Music & will suggest that abandoning FM could accelerate their growth at all radio spectrums expense. The Ofcom auction of the 700MHz UHF band coincidentally also starting tomorrow, will lead to better 5G mobile internet.   This will give better internet connections for automotive & that sector is seen as one of the main beneficiaries.  

It seems that a fear at the BBC is that the growing choice for any & all online audio & video services is eroding traditional entertainment.   Shennan will appeal to commercial rivals for the radio industry to work together, echoing BBC deputy DG Anne Bulford who asked the TV industry for collaboration to meet the threat from Netflix and Amazon.

Clive B posted:

A sign! At least there may be hope for the NAT01 owners on here who appreciate the quality of broadcasts on BBC R3 FM.

Great news Clive - years more music from the 01 and A@R. Cambridge T21.

The 01 has certainly made me appreciate classical music.It really is something special as a source component.

Tabby cat posted:

The 01 has certainly made me appreciate classical music.It really is something special as a source component.

Absolutely agreed. I think it's my best source component, certainly the most frequently used. It's the first and last thing I listen to most days.

Clive B posted:

A sign! At least there may be hope for the NAT01 owners on here who appreciate the quality of broadcasts on BBC R3 FM.

And 02 owners.

steve (who is one)

Derek Wright posted:

[UK] will have a dual system ie FM and DAB.

Thanks Derek. 'Hybrid system' was the term I think I heard but it was earlyish.

C.

Derek, I think this thread deserves to be in the Hifi Corner. 

I think this is good news. Except I have a nasty feeling that NAT prices may strengthen on the back of it...

Just as I’ve bought a Qb.  No matter the Nat 05 remains in the main system

I don't want to rain on everyone's parade (including mine)  but I really don't see this happening.  BBC are not the UK radio network & broadcasting authority & they don't broadcast as such.  They are one of the many radio station companies in the UK radio industry, albeit the most significant one.   Given that FM broadcasting is the most expensive & carries the highest ongoing maintenance costs over time,  it really makes no sense to have radio  transmissions on DAB (hopefully DAB+) internet, 5G & FM.     I see this Vienna conference initiative from BBC as a positive in that it will provoke some alternative thinking,  but IMO the best we can hope for is a delay,  & a delay with an actual FM switch off date hopefully sometime after 2025 to end all the speculation.

Clive B posted:

A sign! At least there may be hope for the NAT01 owners on here who appreciate the quality of broadcasts on BBC R3 FM.

If the wankers who've been threatening a shut down could have made their minds up when DAB first came in - I would own, and would have enjoyed, a NAT 01/02 and Naim might have developed a NAT 01 beater.

A timely ray of hope as my 01 is heading back to HQ for the once over.

Adam Meredith posted:

Clive B posted:

A sign! At least there may be hope for the NAT01 owners on here who appreciate the quality of broadcasts on BBC R3 FM.

If the wankers who've been threatening a shut down could have made their minds up when DAB first came in - I would own, and would have enjoyed, a NAT 01/02 and Naim might have developed a NAT 01 beater.

 Say it as it is Adam!

Are all fm broadcasts still pure analogue or are they compressed in a similar way to digital?

7,30 on a Friday evening is not my usual time to listen to BBC radio 3 but domestic circumstances found me doing just that.

Last Friday there was a live broadcast from  Cadogan Hall, London, of a Beethoven concert of which both audio and musical quality were stunning. Partly thanks to my Naim 01 Tuner and full marks to the BBC engineers involved. Little background hiss, no feeling of compressed dynamics and a quality to match CD and LP, I listened right the way through. And no "birdies"!

My usual R3 listening is 9/12 Essential Classics weekdays, which is really a programme of classical CDs with studio introduction. I think the time of day may compress dynamics so its not a patch on the live relay  above. Since Rob Cowan left the show its gone downhill for me.

I had some R3 Freeview recording of last years Prom Concerts. The audio quality was dire, sufficiently so for me to wipe them.

So please do not dump FM whether its the government or the BBC!

Douglas

Richard Dane posted:

Derek, I think this thread deserves to be in the Hifi Corner. 

I think this is good news. Except I have a nasty feeling that NAT prices may strengthen on the back of it...

I have a friend here in the US who has just picked up his 4th NAT01 on the cheap. Maybe this is now the time to start putting them back into the market? Actually, he loves his NAT01 so much (playing into Saras with 42/CB250) that he wanted to keep at least one unit as backup should his main unit fail beyond repair. 

Bob the Builder posted:

Are all fm broadcasts still pure analogue or are they compressed in a similar way to digital?

Yes all FM broadcasts are analogue & YES they all use compression to varying degrees.   The low end pop type stations seem to compress the life out of it,   BBC national & local stations use it to varying degrees,  the exception is R3 where to me it sounds like they use it but not that much or maybe not at all depending on the broadcast type.   I have yet to find anywhere that published who uses what,  but thats not relevant other than the answer is yes.    

The other thing that FM radio has,  but DAB & webradio doesn't,   is FM is transmitted with a stereo 19 kHz pilot tone.  To avoid audible interference from this, the transmitted audio band is limited to 50Hz-15kHz & the receiver also needs to have a pilot tone blocking filter.  Ideally this should block from 15 kHz,  some do,  but some curtail the signal at a lower fs, some as low as 10 kHz - Leak Troughline for e.g..       

Considering all this dynamic compression & top end suppression,  its surprising that it sounds so good.  

Mike-B posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

Are all fm broadcasts still pure analogue or are they compressed in a similar way to digital?

Yes all FM broadcasts are analogue & YES they all use compression to varying degrees.   The low end pop type stations seem to compress the life out of it,   BBC national & local stations use it to varying degrees,  the exception is R3 where to me it sounds like they use it but not that much or maybe not at all depending on the broadcast type.   I have yet to find anywhere that published who uses what,  but thats not relevant other than the answer is yes.    

The other thing that FM radio has,  but DAB & webradio doesn't,   is FM is transmitted with a stereo 19 kHz pilot tone.  To avoid audible interference from this, the transmitted audio band is limited to 50Hz-15kHz & the receiver also needs to have a pilot tone blocking filter.  Ideally this should block from 15 kHz,  some do,  but some curtail the signal at a lower fs, some as low as 10 kHz - Leak Troughline for e.g..       

Considering all this dynamic compression & top end suppression,  its surprising that it sounds so good.  

Virtually all source material though is digital either from CD or digital files and is processed to a greater or lesser extent by digital compressors to make it sound 'good' on FM, and is then distributed around the country to the various transmitters and relays using NICAM or in some rare cases a satellite feed. 

I'm oblidged ChrisR_EPL,   I should have included this info   .........    Yes all FM broadcasts are analogue & YES they all use compression to varying degrees in the digital domain prior to distribution.  

Ridiculous that Jazz FFFM does not broadcast on erm FM

Mike-B posted:

Considering all this dynamic compression & top end suppression,  its surprising that it sounds so good.  

I use my NAT01 (with Ron Smith Galaxie 17) to listen to BBC Radio 3 FM almost exclusively. The NAT01 is probably my best source. Whilst a live broadcast can be stunning, I am surprised that many times I'll hear a CD being played on, say, Record Review, which sounds better than the CD which I've ripped to NS01 and streamed through the NDS. Long may BBC Radio 3 continue to broadcast such fine quality on the FM waveband.

BTW, I'm listening to 'In Tune' as I type.

Through out my late teens and all through my twenties I listened to a lot of analogue radio as pre internet it was the best way to access new and live music.  There is something very special about pure analogue transmissions on valve radio's I have owned a few over the years but as the quality has lessened I've listened less I still own a Heathkit fm unit that is sometimes connected up to my main system but I've found it has lost much of what made it so great.

The good news is that with a decent streamer and dac there are some excellent 320kbs internet stations out there and the variety is so much better than the old fm days so although glad fm will stay I think I'll be sticking with iRadio.

Ridiculous yes,   Jazz FM iRadio is 128kb/s,   you could say its not doing justice to SQ for jazz as a serious music genre.   DAB+ on my big stick is about as bad as it gets @ 32 kb/s  & forget the kb/s numbers & the pro/cons of DAB+ (AAC+)   it just sounds plain & simple bad.    

If this is the case - at last sense prevails and is very good news... and I agree there may be a spike on NAT01s and perhaps some niche  UK consumer development again on hifi tuners.

However I do slightly smirk when analogue stereo radio is referred to as FM as opposed to VHF Broadcast or Band II - because as you may know Stereo VHF transmissions use both FM and AM together to provide the stereo signal    .... mono is pure FM. Where would we be without labels....