The Great Ethernet Showdown 2

Posted by: Bryce Curdy on 20 March 2018

Perhaps unsurprisingly, my original post appears to have been deleted (unless I've missed it). Not surprising to me because it got hijacked by a collection of several selfish self indulgent individuals who had never listened to the cables in question and therefore had absolutely zero to contribute to the debate. These individuals can feel free to start their own post about their scientific supremacy, but leave me and the rest of us who trust our ears in peace. Perhaps the mods could sort this out.

So in my home today listening with an Atom and Totem Tribe In-Wall speakers (second system) we went from bog standard CAT5 to Chord Epic to Chord Signatue to Chord Sarum T. At this point we kept the Sarum T from Atom to home network and used the Signature to connect the NAS to the home network. And then we reverted to the original bog standard for both.

There was a clear and broadly speaking roughly similar improvement as Epic, Signature, and Sarum T were substituted. With the standard CAT5 the Music sounded somewhat muddled which Epic resolved . Signature added fluidity and effortlessness, and Sarum T simply raised it all again in every way. Dealer and I agreed that any improvement adding a posh cable between NAS and network was very marginal.

So my head says Signature, and my heart Sarum T. Definitely better (although Signaure very good), but one posh cable rather than two+ Is something I can afford, or I suppose Shoreline is an option for the NAS.

PS If I follow correctly there was some sort of challenge submitted. Subject to agreeable conditions etc I am 100% up for it.

Posted on: 28 March 2018 by charlesphoto

FWIW Uptone Audio have announced that they are working on a bespoke switch, built from the ground up. Won’t be cheap, but sounds like sub $500 minus the power supply. Same form factor as their LPS-1 power supply the and the Sonore UltraRendu. Should be interesting - four “dirty” ports in, and one “clean” port out, as well as a SFP port out (that’s not clean, but they said they’re including it because they could).

Posted on: 28 March 2018 by Seth

Mike-B posted:
I'm confused ......... in your post you wrote: Awful! My system sounds terrible. Sharp, overblown, no bass. An anecdote is a brief, revealing account of an incident. So is your SQ change description accurate or not. ???

Mike-B, I’m not sure you and I are coming from the same direction here and I don’t really think anyone else would be all that interested in this conversation. There is some artistic license in my post, so perhaps I have confused you. Either way, I hope you’re having a grand day and that we don’t need to analyse it too deeply.

Regards,

Seth

Posted on: 03 April 2018 by Beachcomber

I thought I'd have a go at some changes to the Ethernet. I have replaced my Netgear switch with a Catalyst 2960. I have a reasonable Ethernet cable between the switch and the NDX. The difference in sound is...undetectable. I can hear no change at all. Of course, I'm sure that's because my hearing is rubbish, otherwise I would hear the night and day improvement...

Posted on: 03 April 2018 by Bryce Curdy

Beachcomber posted:
I thought I'd have a go at some changes to the Ethernet. I have replaced my Netgear switch with a Catalyst 2960. I have a reasonable Ethernet cable between the switch and the NDX. The difference in sound is...undetectable. I can hear no change at all. Of course, I'm sure that's because my hearing is rubbish, otherwise I would hear the night and day improvement...

Well done for taking the time to listen and properly add to the debate. Could you provide more details about your 'reasonable Ethernet cable'.

Posted on: 03 April 2018 by French Rooster

Beachcomber posted:
I thought I'd have a go at some changes to the Ethernet. I have replaced my Netgear switch with a Catalyst 2960. I have a reasonable Ethernet cable between the switch and the NDX. The difference in sound is...undetectable. I can hear no change at all. Of course, I'm sure that's because my hearing is rubbish, otherwise I would hear the night and day improvement...

you don’t hear more body, bass, and involvement? i had the netgear gs105 before and heard these differences with my nds and cisco 2960. ( using same lan cables).

Posted on: 04 April 2018 by Beachcomber

Bryce Curdy posted:
Well done for taking the time to listen and properly add to the debate. Could you provide more details about your 'reasonable Ethernet cable'.

Yes - was AudioQuest RJ/E Cinnamon 0.75 m Black Network Cable Cat7 RJ45 Network Cable

Posted on: 04 April 2018 by Beachcomber

French Rooster posted:
you don’t hear more body, bass, and involvement? i had the netgear gs105 before and heard these differences with my nds and cisco 2960. ( using same lan cables).

No - nothing different. This is NDX/52/Supercap/NAP500/S600. Source is a PC with Asset server.

Posted on: 04 April 2018 by Mort2k

Morning All

Following this thread with my audio 'head' on it all makes sense. Following with my IT 'head' on it sounds like a load of rubbish . So I had to conduct some tests.

First I bought a 2960 for £50 on eBay. Cheap enough test and i needed a new switch anyhow.

Second I bought a AQ Vodka Streaming Cable from a good online source that accepts returns

First Test - insert switch between rest of the network and the Streamer using basic cheap cat5
Second Test A-B Test the Vodka cable against a basic CAT5 cable I have

The aim was to trust a pair of ears and not technical ‘facts’ in the testing. My wife has a great set of ears, loves music and the HiFi but also does not care about the tech stuff, just what sounds better/worse/same etc so made the perfect 'blind' tester. In each test i did not reveal what was being tested or what order i was changing cables/device and not everytime did i make a change. We use the first 30s of a single track for the test.

First test was repeated a number of times and while subtle the differences the switch made where obvious and detectable each time the change was made. Every time my chief listener picked the test with the switch as the 'best' option. Slightly more punch in the base, bit wider sound stage and separation. Nothing groundbreaking but it was there and worth £50.

Onto the Vodka ! I was very skeptical about this so ran the new cable and old basic cable from the cisco and made the change over a quick as possible. The story is very similar to the switch above. The expensive cable was better, the basic cable was a tad slower and a bit less defined. The Vodka just opened things up a tad. Again nothing major, not like adding a PSU or changing a power cable.

In the scope of this hobby a £350 upgrade is 'cheap' so both have stayed in place !

Rob

Posted on: 04 April 2018 by Nick Lees

Interesting. I blind tested my wife on network cables (generic, Cinnamon, Meicord, Chord Indigo) and she picked the most expensive (which isn't even able to call itself "Ethernet") as sounding best. And I had the same view as yourself - there didn't seem to be any reason there'd be a difference.

However, this (and my own listening tests) were invalid because:

a) Neither she nor I are certified Cisco Network Engineers and therefore don't *know* there can't be any difference

b) We're not posters from elsewhere come here to poke fun and who, despite not having tried things, *know* there can't be any difference

But it sounds good to me... (and my wife doesn't give a hoot)

Posted on: 04 April 2018 by Mort2k

Nick

Great Post. Made me chuckle.

Rob

Posted on: 11 April 2018 by Huge

OK, results of my (previously promised) test...

Yes, in my system* I can tell differences when swapping the cable from the switch to streamer, but they are relatively small.
So, in ascending order...

3m Generic Cat6a SFTP
Slightly 'veiled' sound, slight reduction in apparent dynamics, less clarity of instrumental timbres, a bit less 'involving' to listen to.

3m Chord C-Stream
Still slightly 'veiled', less clarity of instrumental timbres, very slightly less 'involving' to listen to.

3m Meicord Opal, Cat6 UTP
Slightly less clarity of instrumental timbres otherwise fine.

5m StarTech Cat6 UTP (type N6PATC5MWH, a generic UTP patch cable from CPC Farnell)
This beat all the rest, and is the reference to which the others were compared.

So in my system*, it now appears that UTP wins.

* Synology NAS (Synology Media Server) -> Cisco 2960G 8TC-L switch -> NAC-N272/555PSDR + 300DR
This applies only to my system in my environment - no guarantees that you're going to find the same thing!

Posted on: 11 April 2018 by Mike-B

.............. & at £5.99 for 5m the Star Tech cannot be worthy, anyone got a 5m ChordMusic ???

Posted on: 11 April 2018 by Huge

Oh dear! It seems that my ears must be broken.

Perhaps I should sell the entire system and buy another car with the proceeds... However, why I should actually want two cars escapes me for the moment.

Posted on: 03 June 2018 by yeti42

pecifically the music flowed more easily, as if it had been “ deconstipated”.

A “musical laxative” no less, superb imagery you have there, I hope it catches on.

Posted on: 03 June 2018 by rjstaines

Mike-B posted:
.............. & at £5.99 for 5m the Star Tech cannot be worthy, anyone got a 5m ChordMusic ???

I think I might have one somewhere Mike. Mind you, after the grandkids have been round, it's difficult to find anything in this house.