I'm thinking up-grade time for my Olive set up!

A 52 would make a lot of sense and make the most of the Supercap. I take it all the Naim kit is recently serviced (or not due a service) - worth doing if they need doing.

You may also want to look at the front end too, the new Lingo 4 seems to be a big step up on previous offerings. If you're happy with the D18's then no need to go here at the moment.

Some food for thought 

The 52 is just very natural. 

A good few years ago people talked about the 52 in the same way as the 552 is now!

Which would make the most of the proac's natural sound, more detail then I take it?

Would it be a noticeable difference and worth the money as per the jump to the SC i did or not?

I think that comparing the 82 to the 52 is similar to comparing the 282 to the 252. There's a lot of discussion on here about this and it's something I found when I went from 82 to 52. The 82 with Supercap is a great preamp for rock music and jazz, whereas the 52 is more refined. The 52 is better for classical and acoustic music in my experience.

Another option for upgrade might be to swap the 250 for two 135s. That would certainly increase the scale, giving a much 'bigger' sound.

Also my naim kit is fully up-to-date on the service.

raggaman posted:

Which would make the most of the proac's natural sound, more detail then I take it?

Would it be a noticeable difference and worth the money as per the jump to the SC i did or not?

 

Adding the Supercap to the NAC82 (instead of two HiCaps) was one of the biggest upgrades I've ever experienced. Changing to the NAC52 was far more subtle. An overall refinement. Better? I'm not too convinced as I think it depends what you want.

If you do go for a 52 make sure it has the POTS8 upgrade already. 

To swap the 250 for two 135s. I like that idea, so not necessary louder but a bigger sound!

So Clive you think If I'm not so much into classical then upgrade the 250 would give me the best experience?

I listen to mainly 70's jazz funk, rock, folk & alt pop mainly.

I think 135s could be a good investment for your system.. They are really nice amps. I used them, albeit with a 52, for nearly 20 years. If you buy some, check the service history and have them serviced if necessary. 

Could I add another 250, does this work as well?

I'd get a better cartridge first, then a 52.

Ragg, I sit at top of Olive line- 01/cds 2/52/supercap/135s. I’ve done it all in stages-i have had 102/82/250 in my system over the years. I have a very large room. I use Focal 1038bes. For me, the move from 82/supercap to 52 was not as big an improvement as the move from 250 to 135s. Not louder- fuller and better able to drive my speakers - again in a large rom.

Ultimately I would do both moves. Both were upgrades of significance.  

David

Hi Raggaman, Davidf is wise indeed. Another 52/135 owner here. We also have a 82/SC/250 in the family.

My first observation would be that you have a lovely, balanced system. Whoever specified it knew what they were doing, so change it with care. You may find that if you upgrade one part of the system, you end up changing several other boxes to rediscover that sense of balance that you have today.

If vinyl is your main source, then I’d be tempted to Radikalise the LP12 first. This won’t upset system balance but will give you a richer musical experience.

Keep the P75, as it’s brilliant with a DV cartridge. It took me ages to find a phono stage that materially bettered my P75, as opposed to made a small improvement, and that was when looking at £2k+ phono stages.

A pair of 135s will properly grab hold of the D18 speakers (I still have a pair of Proac too!)

Then, much as I like the Proac D18, I would go for the D30RS in a heartbeat (having heard them as well). They do everything a step or two better than the D18, at least they did when I heard them.

At that point, a 52 would be lovely, as would a better cartridge.

Or, just service what you have and be happy!

Hope this helps, FT

davidf posted:

Ragg, I sit at top of Olive line- 01/cds 2/52/supercap/135s. I’ve done it all in stages-i have had 102/82/250 in my system over the years. I have a very large room. I use Focal 1038bes. For me, the move from 82/supercap to 52 was not as big an improvement as the move from 250 to 135s. Not louder- fuller and better able to drive my speakers - again in a large rom.

Ultimately I would do both moves. Both were upgrades of significance.  

David

This was my experience too. Moving from 82/SC to 52 was nowhere near as big a jump as 250 to 135s.

I don't know if it's the best use of your money, but replacing the 82 with a 52 would be a great use of your money. It's in a different class altogether. I don't buy the "better for rock and roll" vs. "better for classical" talk. Better is better. 

Sorry I'm not sure how to Radikalise the LP12

Foot tapper posted:

Hi Raggaman, Davidf is wise indeed. Another 52/135 owner here. We also have a 82/SC/250 in the family.

My first observation would be that you have a lovely, balanced system. Whoever specified it knew what they were doing, so change it with care. You may find that if you upgrade one part of the system, you end up changing several other boxes to rediscover that sense of balance that you have today.

If vinyl is your main source, then I’d be tempted to Radikalise the LP12 first. This won’t upset system balance but will give you a richer musical experience.

Keep the P75, as it’s brilliant with a DV cartridge. It took me ages to find a phono stage that materially bettered my P75, as opposed to made a small improvement, and that was when looking at £2k+ phono stages.

A pair of 135s will properly grab hold of the D18 speakers (I still have a pair of Proac too!)

Then, much as I like the Proac D18, I would go for the D30RS in a heartbeat (having heard them as well). They do everything a step or two better than the D18, at least they did when I heard them.

At that point, a 52 would be lovely, as would a better cartridge.

Or, just service what you have and be happy!

Hope this helps, FT

Thank you for this reply, you're right it's a really nicely balanced system and brings me so much enjoyment so I don't want to mess this up.

My room size which isn't the any bigger than 5m x 7m and as much as I'd love the deeper bass from the D30r's I may not gain the benefit from extra boom!

The Radikalise of the LP12 has completely lost me, could you explain what I'd have to buy and would it replace something or be an extra bit of kit? It does make sense to improve the front end and I've tried to do that but I have to admit I've looked at the Linn site and most of it goes over my head. I've already upgraded my Linn Sondek LP12 through good advice with the kore, lingo 3, phono stage and new cartridge and it did make a big difference.

Raggaman - you haven't said what your budget is but a couple of points to make without consideration of the costs involved:

FME experience the 52 is night and day better than the 82 - it is not a case that the 82 is better at this at less good at that. If you can find one trade your 82 and if necessary have it serviced - you will be knocked out.

2 x 135 are FME significantly better than 1 x 250 (Olive) and work a treat with a 52/SC - as indeed you might expect. BUT - I would do the 52 upgrade before the 135 upgrade.

The LP12 upgrade road is not hard with the right "guide".  Subject to financial considerations the biggest improvement you can make to your system is going to initially come from upgrading the LP12. It appears that you have a vinyl only system so you would reap big benefits. The Radikal is a much improved power supply that makes a surprising difference to the performance of the TT. The Ekos in one guise or another is a big improvement over the Ittok and a used example would be considerably less than a new Ekos SE.

+1 for swapping the Ittok for an Ekos. A Tiger Paw Tranquillity should be borrowable if you have a Linn dealer around. It's a fairly cheap upgrade. Have you taken the dust cover off the TT and put it in the attic? 

And BTW, what is all this sitting on? A decent rack isa huge upgrade. Get the basics sorted first.

Plus 1 on the Radikal before stepping up to a 52. These to steps would be profound in your system IMHO.

Stu

Hi Raggaman,

Apologies for the term Radikalise. Historically, Linn turntable motors have all been ac electric motors.  A few years ago, Linn introduced a new, top of the line dc motor and power supply called Radikal.  It is a significant improvement for the LP12, even one powered by a Lingo 3 power supply.  This Radikal power supply would be my first recommendation.

You can also improve the tonearm and/or cartridge if you wish.  Equally, there is a turntable magnetic bearing support called the Tranquility, made by Tiger Paw. I haven’t heard the impact of this but others rate it highly, especially for the relatively low price.

re speakers, I remember well the D18 and its bigger brother the D28.  While the D28 did go deeper than the D18, its main advantage to me was the better quality and control of bass.  I didn’ recommend the D30 (successor to the D28) for its deeper bass. If anything, it will be less prone to bass boom than the D18.  It’s just a much clearer, more articulate speaker, good though the D18 is.  However, if you love the D18, then keep them and continue to enjoy them.

I hope this helps. Enjoy the journey!

Best regards, FT

hi Raggaman,

i too would consider the Radikal power supply.

like you, i have a 20x2 and P75 -- except i use Dynavector's SUP-200 step-up transformer between the cartridge and phono stage (set in MM mode). perhaps your dealer can lend you one along with some appropriate phono cables. a bit of a "left field" suggestion, i know, but i really do think this setup sounds fantastic.

have fun!

--joe

joe9407 posted:

.....i have a 20x2 and P75 -- except i use Dynavector's SUP-200 step-up transformer between the cartridge and phono stage (set in MM mode).

Not a criticism, Joe, but this looks a bit niche, as you say, 'left field'. In what way is it preferable to the 20x2Low straight into the 'Phono enhanced' DV p75?

To the OP, if the Radikal does what others say then, on the basis that if you haven't got it off the record no amount of amplification can help you, it would seem that the Radikal would give you the biggest gain.

Chris

Another vote on the 135’s making a big difference from the 250. Have you considered sending the 82 to Witch Hat Audio for their ‘Superlink’ mod? It realises the potential of the 82 by utilising the full 10 rails of the supercap and it really does bring it close to a 52 but at a fraction of the cost.

Without hesitation a 52 is the way to go with that!

I arrived at 52/135s after 252/300. There was something about the 252 that just didn’t work for me. So I decided to go Olive and I’ve had no regrets. The 52 really is a class act. I’ve noticed a rise in prices recently, perhaps not surprising as the 52 is a very fine pre and nice ones are getting rare. 

Peter