What is the best input level to use?

Posted by: NJB on 24 March 2018

I have bought a DAC with a choice of 1/2/3v outputs.  As you might expect, given that I need to end up with a normal listening volume, my 282 volume dial is either at around 9 o’clock (1v input) and down to barely off the stop for a 3v input.

Is there any science to say which is best?  3v seems to give me almost no travel on the volume dial, and there is a bit of me that wonders if the 282/250.2 combination is truly linear when it is right at the bottom, i.e. am I losing some SQ (most likely the bass).  I am currently using the 1v, as it feels better to get the amplifier working a bit harder.

Sound wise, I cannot hear much difference, but with a new DAC then it all sounds different at the moment!

Thoughts?

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by SongStream

2v is the best match, most Naim sources seem to output 2.1v, including my DAC-V1 when in fixed output mode.  When I demoed the Qutest with my SN2, there was no notable difference in volume level vs the DAC-V1 at all with Qutest set at 2v.

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by ChrisSU

The 2v output from my NDX makes the volume control of my 282 tricky to use at best, and pretty much unusable via the app with system automation. So I can’t imagine how much worse it would be with 3v. My speakers are easy to drive in a smallish room, which I suspect doesn’t help. In fact, I’m thinking or trying a Hugo or Qutest (which I assume is what you are talking about here) as a sort of attenuator, or maybe a Townsend Allegri, to see if that improves things. 

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by yeti42

1V is closer to what you’d get from a vinyl source via a phonostage. CD adopted a higher output level to try to give it an edge in comparison demos. Were I to give a Chord DAC another chance I’d select 1V if available.

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by Ardbeg10y

1v works best into my SN1. It seems that the volume knob around 10 gives the most balanced sound. For what it's worth, SN is a different beast than a 282.

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by NJB
yeti42 posted:

1V is closer to what you’d get from a vinyl source via a phonostage. CD adopted a higher output level to try to give it an edge in comparison demos. Were I to give a Chord DAC another chance I’d select 1V if available.

I am using 1v, and it is sounding very impressive.  Still burning it in, and yet to play with coax vs optical!

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by SongStream

Interesting.  I didn't experiment with the output level, just used 2v as I thought that made the most sense.   I didn't try any of the filters other than the default (can't remember what that's called, but it was white).  I just liked it enough with those settings, it didn't really seem worth messing with it.  However, the unit I had, was already burned in, so perhaps that could be why it sounded so good from the off.  

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by Simon-in-Suffolk

I find around  750mV pk to pk about optimum with some of my sources driving the input of my NAC552... so I would go for the 1 V (not sure whether that is  pk to pk or RMS). I set the level on my Chord Hugo to match this. [ which incidentally is the turquoise colour level]

 

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by SongStream

Does 1v work better in terms of SQ, or just improve usability of the volume control the higher-end pre-amps?  I have read that they are more sensitive. 

Apologies if this reply ends up a bit out of sync with the conversation.

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by joe9407
SongStream posted:

Does 1v work better in terms of SQ, or just improve usability of the volume control the higher-end pre-amps?  I have read that they are more sensitive. 

Apologies if this reply ends up a bit out of sync with the conversation.

i have a Hugo 2 and set the output level at "turquoise," per Simon's suggestion. for me, the benefits are a bit more travel on the volume knob, as well as addressing my 282's slight channel imbalance at low gain levels. 

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by jsaudio

With a 272,pre-amp-streamer, is there an output level choice?

Posted on: 24 March 2018 by kaydee6

I remember Mr Watts don’t recommend 1v. Google it. 

Posted on: 25 March 2018 by Chag...

Do we have any way then to reset the outputs levels of our streamers and DACs below the factory set value of 2.1V ? ????

Chag -

Posted on: 25 March 2018 by audio1946
joe9407 posted:
SongStream posted:

Does 1v work better in terms of SQ, or just improve usability of the volume control the higher-end pre-amps?  I have read that they are more sensitive. 

Apologies if this reply ends up a bit out of sync with the conversation.

i have a Hugo 2 and set the output level at "turquoise," per Simon's suggestion. for me, the benefits are a bit more travel on the volume knob, as well as addressing my 282's slight channel imbalance at low gain levels. 

i found with hugo1   turning down alittle was benifical too

Posted on: 26 March 2018 by Adam Meredith
SongStream posted:

Does 1v work better in terms of SQ, or just improve usability of the volume control the higher-end pre-amps?

In one respect - these are the same thing.

Most analogue volume controls work best between 9 - 12 (possibly further) and so the normal output of phono stages or cards was designed to allow for this. CD and other, newer, sources seem stuck (why?) with a higher output - necessitating the volume control being used somewhat below its optimum range.

It also pushes the lowest level settings closer to the volume track end stop, where one can find greater channel imbalances. Further, it makes fine volume control (especially with motor-driven remote use) harder to achieve.  

If you input 3v you'll just have to 'throw away' more of it to achieve the desired, and bearable, output from the speakers.

Which may (should) then prompt this question. 

Posted on: 26 March 2018 by yeti42

Mr Watts no doubt designed his DACs for his own amps (and maybe to sound louder than anyone elses), otherwise they'd have a more compatible output level. Naim only have the excuse for the level of their CD output (in relation to what their amps work best with) that everyone else was doing it, same for the streamers and DAC, which is very odd as they used to plough their own furrow with confidence.