Interconnects and cables should be first

Yes, Lottery win permitting - I would just love to go and order £80.000 + on a Reference loom. Then spend the next twenty years upgrading a system around it. But there lies the rub. Maybe something sometime later won't be compatible or swim in an entirely different direction.  

I think it’s natural for people to belief that box upgrades bring the big benefit and only later realize that room acoustics, cabling and electricity play an evenly important role in the overall picture. However you also have to realize that some of these upgrades only start to make a lot of sense when the boxes are up to a certain level.

I also have to admit that my journey had the things mentioned above more towards the end of the journey. Looking back I would have liked to address the roomacoustics and electricity first.....

I remember a trade show in the 90's. The AudioQuest booth in Earl's Court. They sent out someone with 100 quid to buy a couple ghetto blasters at Dixons or Curry's and bring them back. They would then have an engineer rip out all the cabling (speaker cables, some of the internal signal path wiring) and solder in AQ cables and demo the units. Cheap ghetto blaster modded with a few grand worth of exotic cables. The differences were amazing.

Total gimmick and I'm not a huge AQ fan but:

• Great showmanship
• Best example of standing by your product I've ever seen.

Yes cables make a differnce. Context matters though. Some systems seems to respond hugely to any change in cable (Arcam) while others (Naim) do respond but it takes a massive cost outlay to get the same shift in performance. I've come to appreciate that for whatever reason, the lower cost the system as a whole, the bigger percentage of the cost should go towards cabling. 

TOBYJUG posted:

Yes, Lottery win permitting - I would just love to go and order £80.000 + on a Reference loom. Then spend the next twenty years upgrading a system around it. But there lies the rub. Maybe something sometime later won't be compatible or swim in an entirely different direction.  

In twenty years hifi cables will be all wifi.  hwifi sounds too Welsh to catch on.

Consciousmess posted:

I have been upgrading my system to its present and final level, but just changed the interconnect to Chord Company Indigo and the upgrade is like a box upgrade. Granted, I’ve been enjoying the electronic upgrades, but stifling what was being output.

 

Ah yes, I remember getting there myself - the final level.   That was about seven years ago, maybe more, I remember clearly proclaiming proudly to SWMBO that she need have no more worries about me spending loads of money on the hifi... this was it, the final level.

I suppose we can all fool ourselves for a while 

Consciousmess posted:

.

. Why don’t people just upgrade cables first? Such a Doh moment!

 

You mean with the cheapest possible source, amp and speakers, gradually  interconnects and speaker cables and only when you have Superlumina (or whatever) start to consider box upgrades? 

I suppose at least that is ikely to have good non-audiophile partner appeal...

I remember asking my wife permission to blow a chunck of cash on what is basically my current system sans the SC. Source to Speakers with racks and cabling. I had no problem. Apparently she felt that the cost of all this plus several grand to have it shipped halfway around the globe on an aircraft pallet was a drop in the ocean compared to what she spent on shoes and handags over a couple years (sounds sexist but her explanation, not mine). So yes, she might look at minor details like a HiLine and think "700 quid for a wire?!" but then the HiLine does something. Her dinky Chanel handbag cost as much as a SCDR and cannot even fit her smartphone in it.

I am sure the fact that she was jetlagged after a 12 hour flight and then disorientated by finding herself sitting on the couch in a dealers dem room also helped the decision making process. 

Fast forward several years and 2 kids later and a job in the finance district seeming like a dream that happened to another person. Her handbags are more likely to be any shopping bag without a hole in it and a fancy meal is a trip to Denny's where the kids do not spill anything. And suddenly, the prospect of buying SL cables or Chord cables I am sure would be met with "No f&%$ing way Mr.!"

Bert Schurink posted:

Looking back I would have liked to address the roomacoustics and electricity first.....

In hindsight, I'd first address racking then room acoustics, although I consider both equally fundamental basics of building a proper system. Boxes fall into place next, then interconnects. I'm fortunate to have a good power supply where I live, but finding good mains cables, a quality wall outlet, and power strip would be my next tweaks. Once there you can go back and revisit interconnects if desired. From there any further box upgrades should simply fall into place. I say this having had NACA5 as a constant in my systems - no desire to move from it.

All the disparate parts (source, amp, speakers, cables, electricity supply, room acoustics, racks & vibration control, and even the listener's own characteristics & preferences) all contribute to the balance and the overall result.

Huge posted:

All the disparate parts (source, amp, speakers, cables, electricity supply, room acoustics, racks & vibration control, and even the listener's own characteristics & preferences) all contribute to the balance and the overall result.

Well yeah, who could dispute such a sweeping statement? The priority of cables was the OP's focus.

Thanks for the wise comments. I’m going to start another thread with a further question which has arisen in me - spurring off from this!

Since they all play a part, then if any one item is particularly problematic, it's defects could come to dominate the overall sound; in those circumstances that's the one that should be fixed first.  This could apply to any of those items.

However the listener is usually a given - although their hearing and preferences will change over time and that may affect decisions in respect of other contributors to the overall sound.  In my case, taking account of changing hearing characteristics has changed my decisions at times.

The importance of serious expenditure on the infrastructure around your black boxes cannot be overemphasised.Wise purchases on dedicated mains supply,the best racks you can afford, SL full loom or partial will bring out the best in any system. I know we’re talking significant cost here but spreading the purchases over time as you upgrade can get you to a better place ultimately.

I'm with Bert insofar as believing that you need a certain level of boxes before cable upgrades make sense. That rather aligns with the source first approach too. You could have the best interconnect in the world, but if the source feeding that interconnect is lacking then so too will be the result.

But then you could argue for the mains lead or the mains network etc. which are upstream of the source. I guess the only solution is to upgrade progressively, keeping each element at the same level (whatever that may mean).