About to give up with streaming

Let me get this right...

You want  albums by David Bowie to appear after the 'A's, but before the 'C's, yet you want the folder name displayed as 'David Bowie'?

I.e you want 'D' sorted before 'C' but after 'A'?

What about 'Johan Sebastian Bach', or 'Orchestra of the 18th Century'?
What rule are you trying to implement?     This seems... well, problematic to say the least!

The tracks are very likely all over the place because Asset is rescanning. With a large library it can take a couple of hours, and if you look at albums while it is scanning it will look exactly as you are finding. If it is not rescanning, tell it to and it will sort itself out. 

I normally browse by folder view & change the folder names to whatever I prefer in Windows Explorer leaving the album & artist just as whatever the ripping or download metadata is set to. 

I have David Bowie albums in a folder I renamed as 'Bowie, David'.     I've also removed 'The' in names such as The Beatles ('Beatles, The' is the way dBpoweramp rip Beatles)     Changing folder names to whatever you want as an artist works well with rock/pop & to a lesser extent with jazz.     I have all classical folders named by composer,   this way I can browse quickly to find a Beethoven or Vivaldi  or browse by orchestra or specific soloist (artist) as I've reset whatever was required to do that in metadata

I find this as an included part of the fun with streaming & not a reason to give up on it. 

Mike, I believe Bryce is browsing using the <Artist> or <Album Artist> metadata tag, i.e. talking about the folders shown in the app, loaded from the metadata on the media server.

may well of done this but ensure the smart is ticked under artist which means The Beatles appears under B rather than T, gives you all artist under B and the

will have to look at Bowie,

Mike-B posted:

...

I find this as an included part of the fun with streaming & not a reason to give up on it. 

I think this defines us as sad information driven geeks.

Timeo technocrati et donae ferentes!

File metadata can ofterpn be the culprit here, in my experience that prepopulating ripped CDs or downloaded music being neither always complete nor consistent, to rectify which it is necessary always to review the matadata, best when first saving al album.

For consistency you need to decide if you want Bowie albums appearing as Bowie, David or as David Bowie, and sorted that same way or differently.

If the normally provided matadata is present and correct, but you want to do something different, there are options that might be able to be used e.g. to enable one way round be used for display and another for sorting - though depending on your library software there may be a greater or lesser need for manual intervention to set up. E.g any or all of folder name and file name metadata artist, composer, playing artist, album name and track name could be altered to suit your preference.

antony d posted:

may well of done this but ensure the smart is ticked under artist which means The Beatles appears under B rather than T, gives you all artist under B and the

will have to look at Bowie,

Interesting, I wonder what that will do with <Orchestra of the 18th Century>, <The Avison Ensemble> or <Scottish Chamber Orchestra>?

if you are really at the end of your tether it might be worth considering Roon. It views a collection from a whole different perspective. And it has an option to sort by first name or last name. 

Mind you it’s not a pathway I often  use  to browse and there are so many other ways into your collection in Roon. 

.sjb

if in doubt   the is he one .. started streaming with sonos ,loved the app must be over 10 yrs, now iam playing more cds now  plus vinyl   

Huge posted:

Mike, I believe Bryce is browsing using the <Artist> or <Album Artist> metadata tag, i.e. talking about the folders shown in the app, loaded from the metadata on the media server.

Just so,  thats why I view by folder,   its just so much easier,  & it free's up the time needed to be a sad information driven geek.   

And a short story on a 4 Seasons download I recently bought from Qobuz,  (its not only CD rips that have problems)  the metadata was unbelievably all over the place & loaded with the biggest load of rubbish I've ever seen.   The various headers included the full italian, french, german & english translations, solist & conductor names, orchestra & then a list of where recorded & the names of the recording & mixing engineers.       Needless to say its gone into Vivaldi folder & I had some fun sorting the rubbish.

Very early in my streaming experience, I decided that I did not like the way that metadata was organised by ripping software defaults.  I now ALWAYS have my artists in the 'artist' and 'album artist' field listed as surname, first name.  Hence "Bowie, David".

Bit of a pfaff as it means I have to either change it after ripping, or make sure I change the appropriate fields before stripping (I use dBpoweramp).

How you organise classical  music is very much a matter of personal preference.  I opted to have the composer as artist, and modify the album or track name (for compilations) to have the performing artist in brackets.   Suits my way of thinking very well, but of course YMMV.

Mike-B posted:

Huge posted:

Mike, I believe Bryce is browsing using the <Artist> or <Album Artist> metadata tag, i.e. talking about the folders shown in the app, loaded from the metadata on the media server.

Just so,  thats why I view by folder,   its just so much easier,  & it free's up the time needed to be a sad information driven geek.   

And a short story on a 4 Seasons download I recently bought from Qobuz,  (its not only CD rips that have problems)  the metadata was unbelievably all over the place & loaded with the biggest load of rubbish I've ever seen.   The various headers included the full italian, french, german & english translations, solist & conductor names, orchestra & then a list of where recorded & the names of the recording & mixing engineers.       Needless to say its gone into Vivaldi folder & I had some fun sorting the rubbish.

Yes, viewing, sorting & browsing by folder is so simple, and fully in the control of the user to set up, and avoids all the frustration of metadata. That is very much my preferred approach, too, and is my one (and serious) frustration with my present choice of player, but sound quality holds me to it (for now). Roon was no better, also not facilitating simple use of file structure. This is one area where the ND5XS I used to have excelled, whether with Logitech media player on a NAS, or Serviio UPnP server on Mac Mini...

I spent yesterday  doing just what I think Bryce wants.

I use dbPoweramp, Perfect Tunes and Asset.

I use Windows to rip and iOS to control.

I have QNAP NAS running Asset 6

What is needed to show "David Bowie" as "David Bowie", but sort as "Bowie, David" (works for "The Beatles", "Beatles, The", etc).

For pop/rock (I have no classical so don't know how this would work there), I have Artist and Album Artist set to "David Bowie". I have Album Artist Sort and Artist Sort set to "Bowie, David". 

When you've done all your updates either restart or rescan Asset, then give it time to do the scan.

In the Naim app go to Servers, Asset, Additional, Album Artist/Album. This shows the list of aritsts with Mr Bowie still under "D". Next switch to A-Z view and he moves to "B", but still shows as "David Bowie".

The Naim app doesn't seem to have A -Z down the side of the screen in A-Z mode as it does in "standard mode" . Seems odd, so may be a glitch on my iPad.

Note:

By default dbPoweramp doesn't have Album Artist Sort and Artist Sort as fields you can use. You can add them through the settings for CD Ripper, or you can use Explorer (on Windows), right click a folder (album, not artist - eg "Heroes", but not the "David Bowie" higher level folder) and add fields from the db Poweramp metadata edit option.

You don't need to use these fields for most groups, just individuals, or groups with a "The" as their first word.

Examples:

David Bowie - Artist=David Bowie; Album Artist=David Bowie; Artist Sort=Bowie, David; Album Artist Sort=Bowie, David

The Beatles - Aritst=The Beatles; Album Artist=The Beatles; Artist Sort=Beatles, The; Album Artist Sort=Beatles, The

Pink FLoyd - Artist=Pink Floyd; Album Artist=Pink Floyd; Aritst Sort=Pink FLoyd or leave blank; Album Artist Sort=Pink FLoyd or leave blank

Sorry this is so long, I hope it's clear enough to follow as a result.

David

I wish I had renamed when I started, but I simply used UnitiServe then NS01, so let the software or chosen database decide how to file it. After a while it became too great a task to revamp it all. I do, however, correct errors as they occur or as I find them. In the most part this has been ok, and I know now that artist names are arranged in this way. I've got used to it like that.

The only issue comes when trying to search for a particular version of a classical piece. I have learnt to remember composers' first names, although occasionally I have to do an Internet search first. It can be particularly frustrating when searching for, say, the second disc in Böhm's Götterdämmerung when I have something like nine versions of the opera and they appear all together with the same name. Fortunately I corrected all the cover art to be the same as the original CD. Otherwise there's be a risk of listening to the first part of act one under one conductor, with one orchestra and cast, and the next part under another. 

Huge posted:

Let me get this right...

You want  albums by David Bowie to appear after the 'A's, but before the 'C's, yet you want the folder name displayed as 'David Bowie'?

I.e you want 'D' sorted before 'C' but after 'A'?

What about 'Johan Sebastian Bach', or 'Orchestra of the 18th Century'?
What rule are you trying to implement?     This seems... well, problematic to say the least!

There are Sort tags.  They just don't seem to do what they say on the tin.  I set Album Artist (which I use in preference to Artist as I find this is the best way to manage multiartist compilations) to Johan Sebastian Bach.  I would then set Album Artist Sort to Bach, Johan Sebastian and Johan Sebastian Bach should appear under B.  And I could, if I so wished, set Album Artist Sort to Richard, Cliff and Johan Sebastian Bach should appear under R!

Hungryhalibut posted:

The tracks are very likely all over the place because Asset is rescanning. With a large library it can take a couple of hours, and if you look at albums while it is scanning it will look exactly as you are finding. If it is not rescanning, tell it to and it will sort itself out. 

I hope you're right, thought I'd tried that.  Asset doesn't tell you when it's finished and I'm not sure how long 21000+ tracks takes.

Sheesh.

Put a record on.

Mike-B posted:

I normally browse by folder view & change the folder names to whatever I prefer in Windows Explorer leaving the album & artist just as whatever the ripping or download metadata is set to. 

I have David Bowie albums in a folder I renamed as 'Bowie, David'.     I've also removed 'The' in names such as The Beatles ('Beatles, The' is the way dBpoweramp rip Beatles)     Changing folder names to whatever you want as an artist works well with rock/pop & to a lesser extent with jazz.     I have all classical folders named by composer,   this way I can browse quickly to find a Beethoven or Vivaldi  or browse by orchestra or specific soloist (artist) as I've reset whatever was required to do that in metadata

I find this as an included part of the fun with streaming & not a reason to give up on it. 

And maybe that's the best way to do it, but no fun whatsoever when you're 21000 tracks into your library and have to change everything.

Innocent Bystander posted:

 

If the normally provided matadata is present and correct, but you want to do something different, there are options that might be able to be used e.g. to enable one way round be used for display and another for sorting - though depending on your library software there may be a greater or lesser need for manual intervention to set up. E.g any or all of folder name and file name metadata artist, composer, playing artist, album name and track name could be altered to suit your preference.

The options don't seem to work, or they delete the Album name!

Another vote for folder view. I feel fortunate that I was advised to go this route when I started ripping my CDs approx 8 years ago.

I rip using dBpoweramp and settings are such there is a main header folder for 'Rock, Pop & Jazz' and then sub-folders are created for Album Artist then further sub folders for each Album. The folder structure is identical to the way my CDs are organised on the CD shelf and I can find any particular album on the App in seconds. Compilations have their own sub-folder ('Various') under the main Rock, Pop & Jazz header folder with each compilation album having its own sub-folder.

'Classical' is another main header folder with sub-folders for each composer and then further sub folders for each album. Classical compilations have their own sub-folder ('Various') under the classical main header folder with each compilation having its own sub-folder.

No first name problems as you just use the folder name you want to use for viewing and 'The' problem is dealt with in a setting in dBpoweramp so that The Beatles is found under 'B'.

I use metadata, Artist and Album artist set to the same, a small number of Genres, Composer (classical only) , Album. I find it easy to find what I want from that. I think I’m unusual to like The [Band Name] in that format, I’ve got 50 or so bands with the in their name, and am often inspired to follow the one I went to find with another after scrolling down the Thes.

David, thanks for your explanation will need to try tonight for "The" issues. Would like to have The Doors under D but listed as The Doors so that the Naim App will show the other The Doors albums in Tidal. It won't if its listed as Doors,The.

Do you Asset set on Smart mode or something else?

Also how do you know when its done rescanning? I have a Mac and QNAP NAS

thx

Open your QNAP's webpage by clicking on Login in QFinderPro and sign in. Click on the Asset icon to open Asset. Asset will open in a new webpage. If Asset has finished rescanning it will show the number of Albums and Tracks contained in your library.

Since having Roon never had to worry about any of this does it all without worrying. May get the odd one wrong but its so easy to fix and the other sort order methods it offers are superb.