Disappointed with Star and path moving forward

I assume your Dynaudio are brand new

You should know Dynaudio speakers of that caliber need a good 600 hours to run in. The higher up the dynaudio you go, the more severe is the run in according to dynaudio.

Play a lot of music on them ! and they need some music at good level volumes.

Good luck.

There are also a few other possibilities here...

IEMs are unaffected by reflections and resonances in the room (obviously!), but the sound from speakers can bounce around reflected from the walls, floor and ceiling.  This actually gives a more natural acoustic signature than using headphones, but there's less precise detail in the sound as multiple reflections can 'blur' things slightly in time - using speakers sounds closer to a normal performance venue rather than listening in a recording studio at a mixing desk as you get with good quality headphones.  Using sound absorbent material (such as soft furniture) in the room can help to get the time detail back (but too much sound absorbent material can result in a dull, over-damped sound!).

Another thing is that, particularly with IEMs, the sound is always slightly artificial in nature.  Normally when you hear a sound, what you hear is influenced by your pinnae (the external part of your ears) and by the shape of the ear canals acting together; these form your 'normal' hearing.  Using IEMs, they bypass the pinna completely and also sit in the ear canal altering it's shape and shortening it.  As these effects vary from person to person (peoples ears vary in shape), the designers of IEMs can't properly compensate for these changes, so IEMs always give a somewhat artificial presentation of the music.  As you've got used to this artificial presentation, a more natural presentation of music will, at first, seem odd.

Finally, speakers are mechanical devices, initially the suspensions of the cones are 'stiff', as they get used more they start to loosen up to their designed state.  A major effect of this loosening is to increase the amount of subtle detail that the speaker reproduces.  These subtle details often involve movements in the cone that are less than 100th of the width of a human hair; until the driver's suspension loosens up to it's designed state of relaxation, these tiny movements can't be reproduced properly

analogmusic posted:

I assume your Dynaudio are brand new

You should know Dynaudio speakers of that caliber need a good 600 hours to run in. The higher up the dynaudio you go, the more severe is the run in according to dynaudio.

Play a lot of music on them ! and they need some music at good level volumes.

 

Good luck.

To be frank, I am new to Hi-Fi and seriously did not know it need 600 hours haha.. but I take note of that and let it run.. tks for the advice..

[@mention:36201736971392588] - very helpful explanation and logical to me. I feel now that perhaps this whole issue is me being used to IEM first and then exposed to Hi-Fi speaker next. Unprepared to hear lesser details. Room and sound wave play its part here and I need to look into that.. many tks for this insight. It make total sense to me.

The special 40 has the legendary Dynaudio Esotar 2 tweeter, one of the finest in production. It is capable of very good high frequency resolution.

yup the speaker should not be an issues... if I am not wrong is not Esotar 2 but a different variant called Esotar 40??

analogmusic posted:

The special 40 has the legendary Dynaudio Esotar 2 tweeter, one of the finest in production. It is capable of very good high frequency resolution.

 

They have the Esotar Forty, not Esotar 2. Different animals, although capable enough.

@Mech: Both Dynaudio and Naim sound like crap. Don't listen to anyone else telling you any different. They sound like crap until you reach a certain point, a break in point, when everything fits together and you're immersed.  You'll get good days and bad days in between, but give them time and you'll be rewarded. Play with their position, Dynaudio are notoriously hard to position. Don't give up, you have real gems there!

analogmusic posted:

The special 40 has the legendary Dynaudio Esotar 2 tweeter, one of the finest in production. It is capable of very good high frequency resolution.

 

I owned the special 40s for about 6 months,just recently upgraded to Sopra 1s,but it was not because the S40s were lacking anything at all.Honestly I can not believe you have never owned any HIFI before,and bought such an expensive combo.Klipsch are known to be bright,pair that with inner ear headphones,and I doubt it sounds anything like real music presented in stereo.The Star S40 combo certainly should not be missing anything from the mix,as long as your source is good enough,which you have not talked about?Lots of advice has already been given,S40s will get better with break in,but mine sounded superb right out of the box(brand new).I say get your dealer around,or bring the combo back to him,and point out what is not right,because something is definitely wrong,these are world class components that have been used together all over the world with great results.

Source are pretty much what Star give me. Tidal and Spotify streaming with WIFI and some normal CD from old. I never own any Hi-fi prior to this purchase indeed. Been quitely listen to music on my earphone. I have Weston, Klipsch and etymotic er4 before going the speaker route.

I will ask my dealer in that case. Tks a million

Dan.S posted:

analogmusic posted:

The special 40 has the legendary Dynaudio Esotar 2 tweeter, one of the finest in production. It is capable of very good high frequency resolution.

 

They have the Esotar Forty, not Esotar 2. Different animals, although capable enough.

@Mech: Both Dynaudio and Naim sound like crap. Don't listen to anyone else telling you any different. They sound like crap until you reach a certain point, a break in point, when everything fits together and you're immersed.  You'll get good days and bad days in between, but give them time and you'll be rewarded. Play with their position, Dynaudio are notoriously hard to position. Don't give up, you have real gems there!

Haha sure will not give up 

After three days at last week's Audio Show here in Montreal, my favourite room ended up being that of Codell Audio, who were using a Naim Nova feeding a pair of Dynaudio Special 40s. Sumptuous, easy on the ear, and completely engaging across many different musical genres. The Nova was fed from a Uniti Core, with equipment sited on a Naim Fraim rack. 

As others have mentioned, a lack of run-in could account for what you are hearing, along with the sonic shock of moving from Klipsch IEMs to high-fidelity speakers !

Jan

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

After three days at last week's Audio Show here in Montreal, my favourite room ended up being that of Codell Audio, who were using a Naim Nova feeding a pair of Dynaudio Special 40s. Sumptuous, easy on the ear, and completely engaging across many different musical genres. The Nova was fed from a Uniti Core, with equipment sited on a Naim Fraim rack. 

As others have mentioned, a lack of run-in could account for what you are hearing, along with the sonic shock of moving from Klipsch IEMs to high-fidelity speakers !

Jan

The OP still hasn’t clarified whether he heard the Nova playing through other speakers, and/or the Dyns driven by another amp, and if so how they sounded to him, so we have no way of knowing if this is truly just a difference between his previous in-ear music pkaying fron whatever source and speakers, or whether there might be some more fundamental cause like something faulty, or connections somehow wrong etc.

The Dynaudio is driven by other amps when I listen to them. At the show room it did sound nice to me. I will check on my connection and likely use Naca5 as suggested. Hopefully that helps and let it run in more. 

mech posted:

The Dynaudio is driven by other amps when I listen to them. At the show room it did sound nice to me. I will check on my connection and likely use Naca5 as suggested. Hopefully that helps and let it run in more. 

it has been suggested ( by someone who has good cause to know) that the speaker cable is unlikely to bevthe problem in this case, so changing them woukd seem not to be the first thing to try.

When you say “sound nice”, do you mean you were qipuite happy with them , including the detail they presented? If nit, what made you buy them? And if yes, then this matter clearly is NOT to do with speakers vs earbuds, but why the speakers don’t sound nice to you at home, r which either something is wrong - incorrectly connected or faulty - or the room itself is the issue, and you need to play with speaker and listening positions.

Are the speakers you bought the same ones you heard in the shop (the display model)? If so, then them “burning in” is not the problem if they sounded good in the shop. 

You haven’t answered the questions that were asked about your room, tomwhich I would suggest you give the distances of speakers and listening positions from each other and the walls, as well as the dimensions of the room.

analogmusic posted:

The special 40 has the legendary Dynaudio Esotar 2 tweeter, one of the finest in production. It is capable of very good high frequency resolution.

 

It would appear Google was wrong on this occasion Analogmusic!! 

mech posted:

I now probably know where my deep seated dissatisfaction comes from. Probably prior to owning a Hi-Fi speaker, I always listen to IEM and prefer the immersion and closeness of the music. Tks so much you guys for sharing the insight.

Maybe I will change to NACA5 cable and let it run in for 6 months then see how things goes.

It's not the speaker cables but you can try the NACA5 if you wish to. I have both Chord Epic Twin and Naim NACA5 and have frequently compared them before. They are quite close in sound signature with the Chord Epic sounding *slightly* more detailed in the highs with added refinement. The NACA5 is less detailed at the top. If you aspire to hear the missing zzzz sound from the speakers as you did with the IEMs, the NACA5 may do worse than the Chord Epic. 

My suggestion is to try some detailed speakers from the likes of Proac which will let more of the top-end detail through. 

[@mention:41551091830475636] and [@mention:1566878604025788] Yup I would guess the EPIC cable should be fine, as is the speaker.. 

When at the Dynaudio I have to admit that is sort of a few time I've heard Hi-Fi speaker. Previously I heard the LS50 Wireless through Spotify and is very disappointed by it.

So when I heard the Special 40 through their amp (sorry I did not really ask them what amp), it is crystal clear to me at that time.

To be honest, I am not very analytical to music, but as a normal person I believe everyone can heard good musical thing and feel it when they are at the scene. Not sure how to describe it. Just feel right I guess.

The room is a straight long rectangle, I did not put the speaker on center because on the left side is block by a entry door.

Here's the room pic I draw badly

I own the Star and Dynaudio Focus 260s - the Dyns need some good break-in I’d say about 3 weeks is good. The Star started out great then lost the bass response and a few days later came back strong and has been great since; total I’d say about 2 weeks break in. Plus you need to break in to the new sound. If you’re use to IEMs then you’re now getting a different sound all together, plus Klipsch is known for being more forward and slightly brighter which may be part of the issue too. 

Callas01 posted:

I own the Star and Dynaudio Focus 260s - the Dyns need some good break-in I’d say about 3 weeks is good. The Star started out great then lost the bass response and a few days later came back strong and has been great since; total I’d say about 2 weeks break in. Plus you need to break in to the new sound. If you’re use to IEMs then you’re now getting a different sound all together, plus Klipsch is known for being more forward and slightly brighter which may be part of the issue too. 

Great to hear someone with Star pair with a Dynaudio also. I guess need to break it in well

I think you have 2 problems:

1. The amp and source and cables used at the dealer made an enormous impact on how the dynaudios sounded (given they have a more laid back almost dark kind of sound, compared to others), so you need to investigate. Most of the time, dealers try selling you a piece of kit, which they pair with electronics many many times more expensive and when you finally get home and hook it up, it doesn't rise to your expectations. Maybe you need to change your power cables, these can give a huge difference. Anyway, as time passes, the tweeters will continue to open and give more details.

2. However, your room is likely to be the culprit, most of the sound energy goes in the SE side of the room. Try to relocate your speakers to a more central to the room position and remember to cover your large window with a curtain or something. Fiddle with the position of the speakers and fiddle a lot. Dynaudio gives spectacular results but you have to work a bit for it.

Unfortunately the central position will smack the speaker directly to the open door Will close the door and try different positioning to try... 

Hi Mech,

Thanks for the drawing of the room.  There are a few problems with that layout.

First, is there any chance you could completely change the layout of the room, putting the speakers either side of the window about 0.5-0.7m from the wall and putting the sofa about 0.3-0.5m from the opposite wall? Could you do this the other way, with the sofa about 0.3-0.5m from the wall with the window, and the speakers about 0.5-0.7m from the wall opposite?

Failing that, can you reverse the arrangement, putting the speakers symmetrically at the other end of the room?

If you can't do that you are going to need to deal with reflections from the large window, as this probably cause a lot of smearing to the sound.  The most obvious solution is to use heavy curtains, such as velvet.

Finally, you need to move the TV back as near to the wall as you can get it.  If it's between the speakers there's a large air gap behind it that will act as a resonant chamber.

mech posted:

 

What (if anything) is in the space behind the sofa?

Hi @Huge, Curtain may help, but we I don't have the tradition of putting one since it make the room super dark Hmms.. I will try your suggestion of moving the TV more behind. I also plug the speaker back-port with some sponge or else the bass is too boomy sometimes. Seems like the 50cm from the back wall is not enuff..

[@mention:1566878603952052] - there is no much behind the sofa really, mostly empty space. Besides the glass window is the main entry door which I did not draw and sad to say speaker can't put at that side with no main socket at that place.