Naim price increases April 30th

MangoMonkey posted:

I guess they want the newer Uniti stuff to be competitive - raising the price on the classic is one way of making that stuff competitive...

I'm glad I was able to buy my nap500DR for 14K. Its from 2001, but completely rebuilt and restored. 

Although, after living with it for a year or two, I might just go for a rega apollo + rega brio. Full hifi system for the price of a chord music cable. Fact is, one gets used to anything...

You never would quite get used to dropping the 500DR, in fact, not remotely.

I was just posting about the US price increase in April.

Japtimscarlet posted:

I too have owned naim for a few years ( 1984 infact )

I'm perfectly entitled to say on an open forum..that I think prices are getting too steep .. quality and software is in question ...and I find it all a bit sad

 Tell me to bugger off and buy chord all you like...but the problem with naim still exists

I think the main problem here is that the quality of the product is now in question. I'd have bought a Nova by now if I believed it would be a rock solid quality item but I no longer feel that to be the case. In fact I'm starting to believe that the Classic line equipment pre-new Uniti's will prove to be the high point for Naim quality as the investors start to trade on reputation rather than reality

Drikus posted:

I'm sure you'll be glad when prices drop the moment Naim becomes another "designed in the UK, made in China" company...

At the risk of being flamed, if the quality is better, I don't care if the product was made on the moon.

The issue with design in UK, made on the moon would be the lack of quick feedback loop between manufacturing and design.

So if the design was sent to the moon too, so much the better. There's only so long you can cash in on your geographical lottery.

I buy Naim because it is made in the U.K. All too often we seem to be happy to send our manufacturing base to the four winds which is a tragedy. 

MangoMonkey posted:

Drikus posted:

I'm sure you'll be glad when prices drop the moment Naim becomes another "designed in the UK, made in China" company...

At the risk of being flamed, if the quality is better, I don't care if the product was made on the moon.

The issue with design in UK, made on the moon would be the lack of quick feedback loop between manufacturing and design.

So if the design was sent to the moon too, so much the better. There's only so long you can cash in on your geographical lottery.

I fear you’d lose that important sense of air around the instruments, and you’d lose most of the weight in the bass.

MangoMonkey posted:

Drikus posted:

I'm sure you'll be glad when prices drop the moment Naim becomes another "designed in the UK, made in China" company...

At the risk of being flamed, if the quality is better, I don't care if the product was made on the moon.

The issue with design in UK, made on the moon would be the lack of quick feedback loop between manufacturing and design.

So if the design was sent to the moon too, so much the better. There's only so long you can cash in on your geographical lottery.

Mass production in a Chinese moon factory compared to UK craftsmanship. You're right, not an easy choice to make...

Well none of us have access to Naim’s business plan or accounts but I doubt they are a high profit and given what must be going into product development right now.  

Regards,

Lindsay

analogmusic posted:

Theres no need to recommend Naim to friends mango

in all my gear I love most the Chord Mojo. It’s a little box of magic that does what it does with any amplifier. 

 superb r&d from chord engineering created the mojo and it’s all I need to enjoy my music seriously 

Until the battery goes flat, which happens consistently much sooner than on any other similar device I’ve owned. 

Eoink posted

I fear you’d lose that important sense of air around the instruments, and you’d lose most of the weight in the bass.

Brilliant !! Love that ...

Am I missing something, if Naim prices increase then so does the pre-loved prices.

The residual prices on most Naim boxes is superb, in fact if you wait long enough you will probably get back what you paid ....

MangoMonkey posted:

I had a look at some of the Naim prices starting April 30th. I wonder if the Nac 282 really sounds $1K better now (at 9K).  If Naim can't get their costs under control (or the distributor can't), it's really Naim's problem..

Or maybe they don't expect/want to sell any of the classic pieces anymore... - or want the uniti stuff to appear cometitive.

The 282 was already overpriced 5 years ago - now it's just pricing itself out of the market.

The stageline is $900. That's just a joke - it was already not super competive at the $500 pricepoint.

Just a rant - I'm not in the market for anything, but can't recommend Naim to any of my friends at these prices.

Or maybe dealers will have a bigger margin and will be expected to give 20% off..

The 282 (or any other Naim gear) may be overpriced but the topic is quite subjective. I too feel the mid-level Naim gear NAC 202 and upward to be quite expensive but I wouldn't say it's overpriced. Naim may be pricing itself out of the market but it may also be targeting the affluent market. Putting the issues of value and performance aside (which are usually subjective with respect to sound quality), Naim may want to be seen as the "Rolls Royce" of hifi with the current pricing which always seem to be on an upward trend throughout the years.

There will always be people who will regard Naim to be overpriced when comparison was made to the cheap and cheerful Rega and Exposure which were often touted to sound better than Naim. Nevertheless, there will be others who do not feel that way. Some people who are new to Naim may want to try the Classic gear when the Rega looks too affordable. The high pricing of Naim may not be viewed as a "joke" but a perception of quality and performance (although I'm aware that not everyone will agree with that one). 

I actually have no issues with the price increases since I have settled down with Naim. I currently have two setups, NAC202/NAP200 and NAC282/NAP200/HicapDR with the latter bought new 2 years ago. As a matter of fact, I encourage Naim to increase the prices every year as I want my gear to appear premium. :-)

wenger2015 posted:

Am I missing something, if Naim prices increase then so does the pre-loved prices.

The residual prices on most Naim boxes is superb, in fact if you wait long enough you will probably get back what you paid ....

I wish. But not my experience here.

ryder. posted:

MangoMonkey posted:

I had a look at some of the Naim prices starting April 30th. I wonder if the Nac 282 really sounds $1K better now (at 9K).  If Naim can't get their costs under control (or the distributor can't), it's really Naim's problem..

Or maybe they don't expect/want to sell any of the classic pieces anymore... - or want the uniti stuff to appear cometitive.

The 282 was already overpriced 5 years ago - now it's just pricing itself out of the market.

The stageline is $900. That's just a joke - it was already not super competive at the $500 pricepoint.

Just a rant - I'm not in the market for anything, but can't recommend Naim to any of my friends at these prices.

Or maybe dealers will have a bigger margin and will be expected to give 20% off..

 

I actually have no issues with the price increases since I have settled down with Naim. I currently have two setups, NAC202/NAP200 and NAC282/NAP200/HicapDR with the latter bought new 2 years ago. As a matter of fact, I encourage Naim to increase the prices every year as I want my gear to appear premium. :-)

Until you start looking into the 252 or the 250DR. You have a nice system but not end game yet.

In the UK the price of the 282 in Jan 2017 was £4488 and in Jan 2018 was £4778 - a rise of 6.5%

Mango - you’re no doubt a clever chap but what is your judgement with regard to Naim pricing based on?  Have you visited the factory, seen the production and quality control process, reviewed the provision and cost of components?

The CB and Olive Naim products used to be a little expensive at the time but nobody complained because most people could afford even the best of their amplifiers and other stuff.

With the inescapable annual price rise over the years I feel like they are now asking Rolex prices for a Tudor product.

Drikus posted:

I'm sure you'll be glad when prices drop the moment Naim becomes another "designed in the UK, made in China" company...

Actually, I think this is a very good point made indeed. Value can be seen in a variety of ways.

Stephen Tate posted:

Drikus posted:

I'm sure you'll be glad when prices drop the moment Naim becomes another "designed in the UK, made in China" company...

Actually, I think this is a very good point made indeed. Value can be seen in a variety of ways.

It can't drop because the biggest cost is the waste of money in the digital section of the Naim products, like the fantastic App.

I have no company information, but an app developer - even the most amateurish ones - simply costs 4-5 times more than some young lady soldering capacitors on a print.

 

MangoMonkey posted:

The stageline is $900. That's just a joke - it was already not super competive at the $500 pricepoint.

Just a rant - I'm not in the market for anything, but can't recommend Naim to any of my friends at these prices.

Or maybe dealers will have a bigger margin and will be expected to give 20% off..

Where are you getting your information? The Stageline sells for US$695.

I always thought Stageline brilliant for the price can’t think of any others are or around the price that clearly outperform it.   

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Mango - you’re no doubt a clever chap but what is your judgement with regard to Naim pricing based on?  Have you visited the factory, seen the production and quality control process, reviewed the provision and cost of components?

I have visited the factory, it was an unforgettable experience.  The pride exhibited by everyone was palpable , there are no conveyer belts or assembly lines just diligent , skilled people concentrating on the task at hand.  Can you imagine the overhead involved it  must be staggering. Running a business of this sort , employing hundreds of people whilst paying taxes is a monumental endeavor.Taking everything into account , Naim might be considered a relative bargain?

mcjt posted:

 

MangoMonkey posted:

The stageline is $900. That's just a joke - it was already not super competive at the $500 pricepoint.

Just a rant - I'm not in the market for anything, but can't recommend Naim to any of my friends at these prices.

Or maybe dealers will have a bigger margin and will be expected to give 20% off..

Where are you getting your information? The Stageline sells for US$695.

It's 900 post price increase April 30th.

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Am I missing something, if Naim prices increase then so does the pre-loved prices.

The residual prices on most Naim boxes is superb, in fact if you wait long enough you will probably get back what you paid ....

I wish. But not my experience here.

Agreed. Seems that residuals have dropped here in the U.S as well.

Lovely product from a great company but competition is fierce here in North America. Before he retired my friend sold Naim which he first heard after I purchased a Naim CD-5 and Nait5i.  At the end, the Unitis, basic CD players, and Naits sold in good numbers but not the separates. I think I was probably his only devoted Classic Series buyer over the years. Absolutely know I was the only person who bought Naim speakers. 

It tells me something about naim that this debate is happening on its forum and its customers care enough to have the debate - in that sense, naim is clearly more than a consumer electronics company.  I for one don’t feel as strongly about, e.g. premium-price batteries.

Here’s a perspective on the pricing - if naim raised investment capital by offering shares or bonds to loyal customers, would you invest? I’d certainly think about it. I know a heralded UK manufacturer of niche but expensive metal shelves did something similar a few years back and it seems to have worked for company and investors alike.