Acoustica hi-fi show 2018.

Thank you for your gracious response - I was a bit worried to contradict you so directly but I had a conversation with Derek about it so I was fairly sure I was correct

I thought that the best sound was the Kudos room, but I hated the music that they were playing. I also enjoyed the Chord cables demo. It showed how their interconnect cable has improved over the years. Finally, I enjoyed the big ATC active speakers in a tiny room and the tiny Dynaudio speakers in a very big room!

Alba1320 posted:

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

SNIP

Not taken with the sound of big focals on a naim 500 system in the main naim room,...

SNIP

What was the source for the 500 series system? ND555, or NDS?

Yes, it was the NDS.

The ND555 was sitting naked on a display stand !   You're even able to wobble its wobbly bits*   if you don't make it obvious  

(* I mean the 2 pcbs mounted on brass slabs)

Yes, I gave it a little wobble too

I've been to the show a couple of times before, and sadly, I too have always been underwhelmed by the Naim/Focal rooms. I've been on a Saturday before, so this time I'm leaving it until Sunday to see if a day of warm-up helps! 

As I missed wobbling the wobbly bits of the ND555 at the Bristol Show (don't titter), I somehow feel incomplete as a person. Is that weird?

The star for me of that show was the 505s being driven by a naked Nova. That was it. Three boxes (plus a server).

I have to say the wobble was quite firm....

iI popped into the Acoustica show briefly today and really enjoyed it. It  felt like a relaxed demo with no hard sell  , I only wish I had more time .... My main port of call was checking out active ATCs which will be my next purchase .  ATC had 2 rooms , Passive 50s powered by NAP 300etc  and  Active 100s next door . The Active 100s were much much better , more natural , controlled and just... stunning  . So in ATC terms its pretty clear to me that Active is the way to go . The room I spent most time in was the Auralic with their  Vega G2 Streaming  DAC feeding yes you guessed it ATC Active 40s , as was mentioned earlier this has to be the most cost effective route to a real sonic heaven ,very impressive and neat to boot . 

I didn't have a lot of time as I had to head back to London  but  I really liked the Kudos 505s even with the abstract music playing  , they look great too ! The little Dynaudios very impressive also . The Naim room had a lovely system on paper but I just don't get the Focals , they don't do it for me sonically or aesthetically , I didn't hang around and really feel Naim is being let down by this . Similarly  the Russell K room sounded very forward and harsh to my ears . 

Thanks to Acoustica and all for putting together a great show at  a lovely venue . I'll make a day of it next time . 

Interesting reports folks - apart from the 555 internals, did anyone take any pictures ?

Not surprised show goers have been impressed with atc active 40s - I've been using Hugo TT direct into a pair for around two years now. There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe how good this combination is. There is a caveat - you need a large enough room to take the low end of the speakers. My room is 4m x 4.3 and struggles. Forget the modest ATC specs, in reality these are full range foor-standing speakers.

I compared the 40 actives to the 19 actives in my room and there was a considerable difference. The 19 actives were pretty ruthless in comparison, sounding too forward/bright for my taste. Interestingly, I've recently tried the 19 passives and from memory much preferred them to the 19 actives. They were much more forgiving and I perceived them to be less forward/bright. I'm not sure why this is but reasons could be the additional 'clarity' that actives bring, better bass driver control, and also the height of the tweeter in comparison to my ears. With the active 19 floor-standers my ears were above the tweeter (not ideal) but with the stand mount 19 passives my ears were just above the woofer but below the tweeter (perfect). Both 19 active and passive were a perfect fit for my room acoustically with no noticeable bass issues.

Due to the bass issues with 40 actives in my room that I've been unable to satisfactorily resolve (I've tried everything that is domestically acceptable!) I've decided to trade in for 19 passives.

Hope this helps folks considering ATC speakers.

Halloween Man posted:

Not surprised show goers have been impressed with atc active 40s - I've been using Hugo TT direct into a pair for around two years now. There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe how good this combination is. There is a caveat - you need a large enough room to take the low end of the speakers. My room is 4m x 4.3 and struggles. Forget the modest ATC specs, in reality these are full range foor-standing speakers.

I compared the 40 actives to the 19 actives in my room and there was a considerable difference. The 19 actives were pretty ruthless in comparison, sounding too forward/bright for my taste. Interestingly, I've recently tried the 19 passives and from memory much preferred them to the 19 actives. They were much more forgiving and I perceived them to be less forward/bright. I'm not sure why this is but reasons could be the additional 'clarity' that actives bring, better bass driver control, and also the height of the tweeter in comparison to my ears. With the active 19 floor-standers my ears were above the tweeter (not ideal) but with the stand mount 19 passives my ears were just above the woofer but below the tweeter (perfect). Both 19 active and passive were a perfect fit for my room acoustically with no noticeable bass issues.

Due to the bass issues with 40 actives in my room that I've been unable to satisfactorily resolve (I've tried everything that is domestically acceptable!) I've decided to trade in for 19 passives.

Hope this helps folks!

 

Swap out the Hugo for a Linn DSM (suggest Akurate level) and you could deal with the room.

I've been considering swapping out my n272/555 for a KDSM to front my 40A's but the recent update has given the front end a new lease of life.
2 boxes , 2 speakers

sunbeamgls posted:

Halloween Man posted:

Not surprised show goers have been impressed with atc active 40s - I've been using Hugo TT direct into a pair for around two years now. There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe how good this combination is. There is a caveat - you need a large enough room to take the low end of the speakers. My room is 4m x 4.3 and struggles. Forget the modest ATC specs, in reality these are full range foor-standing speakers.

I compared the 40 actives to the 19 actives in my room and there was a considerable difference. The 19 actives were pretty ruthless in comparison, sounding too forward/bright for my taste. Interestingly, I've recently tried the 19 passives and from memory much preferred them to the 19 actives. They were much more forgiving and I perceived them to be less forward/bright. I'm not sure why this is but reasons could be the additional 'clarity' that actives bring, better bass driver control, and also the height of the tweeter in comparison to my ears. With the active 19 floor-standers my ears were above the tweeter (not ideal) but with the stand mount 19 passives my ears were just above the woofer but below the tweeter (perfect). Both 19 active and passive were a perfect fit for my room acoustically with no noticeable bass issues.

Due to the bass issues with 40 actives in my room that I've been unable to satisfactorily resolve (I've tried everything that is domestically acceptable!) I've decided to trade in for 19 passives.

Hope this helps folks!

 

Swap out the Hugo for a Linn DSM (suggest Akurate level) and you could deal with the room.

Nah  Hugo TT is just too good.

I spent most of Saturday at the show and found it busier than the last two years, expanding into a few extra rooms, though still comparatively laid back and accessible to other crowded shows. Thanks to Acoustica for organising the event!

Observations…

- Naim NDS / 500 & Focal in the barn - Not exactly inspiring given the price and scale of the system on show. In Naim’s defence, its a huge unforgiving space to work with, even for that hefty system. I didn’t like the Focal Utopia’s overall sound, but will be contradicting myself later about Focal. Streamers - Only the Naim open case prototypes x 3 on display and not on demonstration - disappointing.

- Dynaudio Room (large) - An exciting, fast dynamic sound, if a little lean. The issue being a bigger room than last year perhaps - as I’ve heard the Contour 30 sound tremendous with a similar Naim system in a smaller room.

- Bowers & Wilkins - Using Naim amplification. Just not for me. Again, could be the space, but I came out of the room a little disappointed. 

- Chord - The usual cable swap, track repeat, hear the difference dem. Effective, to a point.

- Kudos 505 - This was good! We returned three times just to compare and make sure first (and second) impressions were correct. Even slightly restricted with a brand new N272 / 555PS / NAP300, the powerful, yet engaging sound was a real surprise from these prototype standmounts (thought they would be bigger). I can only imagine how good this combination would sound in a domestic environment, and with fully run in electronics. The Titan 505’s look much better than in press photos too - and when the pending (larger) redesigned stands are released this will balance their top heavy stance. Impressive.

- Russell K - Mmm? I’m a fan of this range of speakers so expectations were high. I’ve heard them sound very good with Naim equipment (modest to expensive), but I felt there something was off with this system. Hope it improves for Sunday as my experience was not representative of this new brand. Unexpected.

- ATC - I’ve never heard active ATC speakers before and found it a mixed experience. The room with the (huge) SCM100 active speakers was simply a case of where do I sign. Very very good indeed, even at low volume. Contrasting, the system in the room opposite (with the active SCM19A I think they were?) fed by Auralic had me running for cover with a relentless up front presentation, despite listening to a few (very) different tracks. A proper dem required (obviously).

- Focal Kanta & Naim Nova - I know the Focal sound can be divisive but these speakers played very well with the Nova, creating a simple one box high end solution that just played music (to these middle aged ears). I could happily live with this system as an end game. Plus, they look so much better in a room environment than in the press snaps - exceptional fit and finish too. After seeing and hearing them, I now like and admire their contemporary design even more - especially in such a conservative market.

- Auralic & Spendor - Similarly, another simple one box meets speakers solution that sounded very good indeed. Can see this approach being overshadowed by some of the mega count black box spreads in the other rooms, but this little Auralic unit (and the Nova etc) confirmed that simple one box solutions have developed at quite a pace and now offer astonishing sound quality for outlay. This time round, I liked the sound of the Spendor’s too and will be investigating further.

- Hegel Röst & Dynaudio Contour 20 - Considering the source was an iPad playing Tidal via Airplay, this system sounded so much better than I expected. Even at low volumes it was thoroughly engaging and not overshadowed by the thunderous sound from the competing bigger rooms. I liked the minimalist design of the one box Röst too, and the Contour speakers looked lovely in white. Yet again, a very impressive one box meets speakers.

If anyone’s planning on visiting today, I’d make a point of visiting the Kudos room - the sound of the show for me.

Yetizone posted:

- Naim NDS / 500 & Focal in the barn - Not exactly inspiring given the price and scale of the system on show. In Naim’s defence, its a huge unforgiving space to work with, even for that hefty system. I didn’t like the Focal Utopia’s overall sound,

- Bowers & Wilkins - Using Naim amplification. Just not for me. Again, could be the space, but I came out of the room a little disappointed. 

- ATC - I’ve never heard active ATC speakers before and found it a mixed experience. The room with the (huge) SCM100 active speakers was simply a case of where do I sign.

If anyone’s planning on visiting today, I’d make a point of visiting the Kudos room - the sound of the show for me.

Firstly Yetizone, appologies for the drastic editing of your post, but you touched on 3 items I wanted to comment on...

The Focals in the barn - I've always said a speaker looking like this would never cross my threshold... and the sound did nothing to pursuade me otherwise.

Bowers & Wilkins - this gentleman appears to think he owns the upper floor and is entitled to leave the door of his dem room open, with complete disregard for anyone else with the volume wound up high.  The Revox guy outside was totally drowned out and in my opinion would be justified in having his stand cost returned.  The B&W speakers themselves were, as you say, 'just not for me'.  ..which is why, when considering a change from my B&W 802 D2's, the D3's were a real disappointment, and why I now have the ATC 100 actives in place of the 802 D2s.

Your experience with ATCs was the same as mine six months ago when I first heard the active SCM 100's at an Acoustica store demo... "Where do I sign?".  Well, I signed (after borrowing them for a couple od weeks) and have absolutely no regrets.

Roger

Just back from an enjoyable couple of hours at the show and it was great to hear a few products i've been looking forward to listening to.

Standout for me has to be the passive ATC SCM50 speakers. They might be ugly (not to these eyes but i haven't put them in front of my good lady for approval yet) but wow, i'm quite literally blown away.....

...although, when confronted with the active 100s across the hallway i did wonder if that might actually happen and i dread to think the amount of air those things can move if you crank them up

The ATC 100 Actives are very special indeed , If only I had the space  and no neighbours ... What was equally impressive was that it was fed by ATCs own DAC/Pre Amp at around £3k , that would make whole the system just north of 20k , not pennies obviously but space and finance permitting I doubt anyone needs more . 

I hope that when the NAC 272 is refreshed or the fabled 372 appears  they will feature XLR outputs for those of who do go down the Active ATC route . 

I had a good informative chat with Richard from ATC and the most refreshing thing I learned is that ATC don't have a marketing department , they let their products sell themselves and everything is designed from an engineering  first principle . I really like that approach which also explains their very good value .

A home audition of Active 40s is on the cards and also tempted to sell up and move somewhere to accommodate the 100s ...

Halloween Man posted:

sunbeamgls posted:

Halloween Man posted:

Not surprised show goers have been impressed with atc active 40s - I've been using Hugo TT direct into a pair for around two years now. There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe how good this combination is. There is a caveat - you need a large enough room to take the low end of the speakers. My room is 4m x 4.3 and struggles. Forget the modest ATC specs, in reality these are full range foor-standing speakers.

I compared the 40 actives to the 19 actives in my room and there was a considerable difference. The 19 actives were pretty ruthless in comparison, sounding too forward/bright for my taste. Interestingly, I've recently tried the 19 passives and from memory much preferred them to the 19 actives. They were much more forgiving and I perceived them to be less forward/bright. I'm not sure why this is but reasons could be the additional 'clarity' that actives bring, better bass driver control, and also the height of the tweeter in comparison to my ears. With the active 19 floor-standers my ears were above the tweeter (not ideal) but with the stand mount 19 passives my ears were just above the woofer but below the tweeter (perfect). Both 19 active and passive were a perfect fit for my room acoustically with no noticeable bass issues.

Due to the bass issues with 40 actives in my room that I've been unable to satisfactorily resolve (I've tried everything that is domestically acceptable!) I've decided to trade in for 19 passives.

Hope this helps folks!

 

Swap out the Hugo for a Linn DSM (suggest Akurate level) and you could deal with the room.

Nah  Hugo TT is just too good.

Try Roon with DSP or room correction?

.sjb

rjstaines posted:

Your experience with ATCs was the same as mine six months ago when I first heard the active SCM 100's at an Acoustica store demo... "Where do I sign?".  Well, I signed (after borrowing them for a couple od weeks) and have absolutely no regrets.

Roger

Hi Roger,

I'm vaguely thinking about moving on from my Neat MF 9's, and venturing into active speakers, so I wondered if I might draw on your experience with your SCM 100's.

First of all, do you think that removing my present 300 DR will result in my losing that, (often misused term), signature "Naim sound", or 

is that likely to survive, given that I'll be retaining my 552 DR?

As my listening room is not the ideal shape, are the SCM's in any way "tuneable", or are they fully analogue?

I'll contact Geoff to arrange a proper demo, and drive over, since I don't see Pete trundling over to North Yorks. for a home demo of a pair of these fairly large speakers!

Who knows, if I'm sufficiently impressed by them, making the change could be fairly painless, given the trading in of my 300 DR, and private sale of the MF 9's.

The fun never stops.

Dave.

pete T15 posted:

The ATC 100 Actives are very special indeed , If only I had the space  and no neighbours ... . 

.

Not sure what neighbours have got to do with it? They don’t have to be played loud  - indeed someone commented on how well they do at playing quietly. Space of course is another matter...

dave marshall posted:

 

I'm vaguely thinking about moving on from my Neat MF 9's, and venturing into active speakers, so I wondered if I might draw on your experience with your SCM 100's.

 

Go large Dave, go large... 

Innocent Bystander posted:

pete T15 posted:

The ATC 100 Actives are very special indeed , If only I had the space  and no neighbours ... . 

.

Not sure what neighbours have got to do with it? They don’t have to be played loud  - indeed someone commented on how well they do at playing quietly. Space of course is another matter...

 

That is of course true  but temptation after a glass of red or 2 is another thing . I've never had any complaints and just had some insulated and acoustic plasterboard installed between the fireplaces so I need not worry . 

Space is an issue as my room is 3.7m wide but now 14m long . The 40s will fit perfectly and maybe the 50s but after 6 months of renovations I'm thinking very much along aesthetic lines .

james n posted:

dave marshall posted:

 

I'm vaguely thinking about moving on from my Neat MF 9's, and venturing into active speakers, so I wondered if I might draw on your experience with your SCM 100's.

 

Go large Dave, go large... 

As they say, in my neck of t' woods ..................... 'Ow mooch? 

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

PB - I thought they were sounding rather lovely. But I don’t have anything much to compare them with - they didn’t play any music that I have, it was an unfamiliar room and I don’t know how the 272/300dr compares with my nds/52/300. And Derek told me the 272 etc was brand new yesterday so not even warmed up.  I stayed for 40-odd minutes because it was the first time I have heard Kudos speakers and I wanted to listen to enough different tracks to have some sort of idea what they were like - I liked what I heard. They are on my list anyway. Do I remember you saying you had heard them and quite liked them?

Yes, you did. I have had the pleasure of hearing them twice now. The first time on the end of a Naim Nova at the Bristol Hi-fi show. For me that was the best system at the show, pure and simple. Just how music should be. Perfectly balanced with wonderful tomes.

The second time at Cymbiosis when I just called in for a quick chat and there was Derek with the 505's, we sat and had a good listen and again, it was almost perfection, the only thing missing was a bit of weight and scale.  

If I had a smaller room and system, the 505's would be top of my want list right now.

dave marshall posted:

rjstaines posted:

Your experience with ATCs was the same as mine six months ago when I first heard the active SCM 100's at an Acoustica store demo... "Where do I sign?".  Well, I signed (after borrowing them for a couple od weeks) and have absolutely no regrets.

Roger

Hi Roger,

I'm vaguely thinking about moving on from my Neat MF 9's, and venturing into active speakers, so I wondered if I might draw on your experience with your SCM 100's.

First of all, do you think that removing my present 300 DR will result in my losing that, (often misused term), signature "Naim sound", or 

is that likely to survive, given that I'll be retaining my 552 DR?

As my listening room is not the ideal shape, are the SCM's in any way "tuneable", or are they fully analogue?

I'll contact Geoff to arrange a proper demo, and drive over, since I don't see Pete trundling over to North Yorks. for a home demo of a pair of these fairly large speakers!

Who knows, if I'm sufficiently impressed by them, making the change could be fairly painless, given the trading in of my 300 DR, and private sale of the MF 9's.

The fun never stops.

Dave.

Tread very carefully Dave, you know how I feel about the MF9's and replacing them. 

Make sure you do the right thing,

Regards

PB