Speaker Shortlist - Any suggestions

How about some Linn Isobariks?

Second hand nbls might be another option.

Willy.

Good thinking Batman. Tom Tom had some when I last looked at their website. You can get amazing value buying used. 

I’ve just looked and they have some for £1,995. 

Pedro posted:

My present speakers are Shahinian Obelisk Mk1s. These were something of an impulse buy having hear the Mk2 version at a dem for my turntable. The Mk1s are not perhaps the best match for my 135s.

Surely more meaningful, Pete, if you described in what ways the Mk1s are wrong. Otherwise you are just going to get a myriad random suggestions based on what forumers like, which will probably be irrelevant to the specifics of your situation.

C.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I’ve had several pairs of Naim speakers over the years. From IBLs, Allaes, SL2s and SBLs. In fact, these Shahinians are my first non Naim speakers since I had Indexes in the late 80s.

As I mentioned in my intro, I bought the Obs after a demo for my Versalex. The amp was a Supernait in to Obelisk Mk2s. I bought the tt, but was also very impressed with the Supernait and the mk2 Obs. Unfortunately, newish Obs were outside my budget as I’d just bought said Versalex. But I spotted an earlier version and took a chance (private seller).

Hi Chris. Good point. i find the Obs sound a tad ragged at times, especially when the volume is cranked up a little. Also, the bass gets boomy and overwhelms the midrange. Too many years with IBLs perhaps?

The speakers are away from corners and about 18” from the rear wall.

I do like the idea of NBLs. Saw a pair once at a dealer. Haven’t heard them though. Auditioning at Tom Tom may prove challenging due to distance and my health issues. May give them a quick ring.  But they will go on the shortlist. Isobariks may not be wise as I seem to be getting too much bass just now.

Pete

For rock I would give Dynaudio a listen. 

That is a decent size room, so I suggest some decent floorstanders. With a limited budget I would only consider secondhand or ex-dem. (Incidentally, you say dealer only, but sometimes private sellers will accomodate auditions, though admittedly they can be hard to find.

My own experience is that transmission line designs sound best to my ears at the bass end. I therefore suggest PMC. There’s a dealer in Oxford presently selling the twenty-26 at £3k - over budget, but you never know what deal may be possible, though that does seem to be a good price. If they won’t come down, then more realistically you might find the twenty-24 closer to your budget from more dealers. Otherwise the older PMC ranges, do crop up through dealers from time to time.

After making a list of speakers that may suit, it is then a matter of hunting for dealers that have them - bear in mind that secondhand stock is constantly changing, and whilst not there today, could be tomorrow. And be prepared to look at lots of dealers, even ones some distance away. 

spurrier sucks posted:

For rock I would give Dynaudio a listen. 

Me too I am on my second set of Dynaudios remember though they do love power.

Can you give your Mk1s more space?

I've heard Arcs sounding great at a WT, Naim, Shahinian dealer. At 18" your Mk1 Obelisks would have been a bit boxed in, relatively.

C.

PS. Know what you mean about the glorious IBLs

Oh, I didn’t spot your like of IBLs. A friend of mine had themsnd I thought they were, shall we say, less than inspiring. He later replaced them with my IMF TLS50s when I changed to higher IMFs, and discovered what he had been missing. IMFs and PMCs have similar character, at least to bigger PMCs (I haven’t heard the smaller PMCs) - so either you would find PMCs good, as he did the IMFs, filling in the missing bass, or if you are wedded to the IBL sound you may find they are not for you. But then, the fact you’ve been through so many speakers shows you haven’t yet found anything truly satisfying.

Hearing is of course the only way to know.

Pedro, have you ever looked into speakers from Ohm Acoustics? Their Walsh line of speakers perhaps not a radical departure from Obelisks and they offer a range of sizes designed specifically for room volume. Within your price range and they have a 120-day trial. A nice variety of finishes to choose from as well. At the very least, worth perusing their website.

Sounds like something’s not quite right. There could well be something wrong with the Oblelisks. If you’re in the UK, Pear Audio could help with a check-up and service.

But one way or another, I’d wait for the just-serviced 135s to settle in. When was the 52 serviced?

In the meantime, I’d follow Christopher_R’s advice and experiment with positioning. Obs need to be away from walls and corners, but otherwise don’t follow the usual rules in terms of how far apart they need to go to really sing or even how far from the listener. It can also be worthwhile experimenting with toe-in. Make full use of those castors!

I think you may have a room issue here .... shoot me down if  I'm wrong ......these speakers do not directly radiate sound .... they rely quite allot on reflection ........ you need to take some advice from the manufacturer and then experiment with room placement and strategic wall damping. You have a nice size room (jealous!) does it have a hard wood floor with plaster walls..... how high is you ceiling etc etc. I don't think there is anything wrong with the speakers or your equipment - I suspect these speakers are very sensitive - and would be staggeringly good when placed in an optimized room.

Suggestions from the other forum members - are not wrong, they may well work allot better as these are direct firing speakers - and would load the room differently.../ more traditionally. 

Hope this helps.........

Shahinians seem to be pretty room insensitive compared to a lot of speakers. They do have a different sound to direct radiating speakers and so after a life of old school Naim speakers they may not be the best fit for you. Given your equipment, it may be worth giving John at Midland Audio X-change a call.

James  

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I did some experimenting with room positioning last night. The room itself has solid walls (old brick built house) and a solid tiled floor with a large rug in front of the speakers.

I moved the speakers further out in to the room (easy with Obs) and toed them in to varying degrees. There was some improvement in that the bass became a tad more controlled. There is a large coffe table (effectively a big box with drawers) that sits between the speakers (just behind them) that may be a contributing factor and I plan to try again this evening with further experimentation. Also need to discuss table removal with my better half.

With reference to servicing and the bedding in that’s necessary. The issue existed before the service. The amps sounded so ‘off’ I just didn’t address the issue until now. The amps have been regularly used since the service and have had a few weeks to settle.

I’ll try more positioning options this evening.

PMC and Dynaudio look interesting. But I will also be phoning Tom Tom re NBLs. Pear Audio have been very helpful in the past. May also chat with them if this evening’s efforts don’t resolve the matter before anything else.

Pete

If you can pursuade TomTom to install the NBLs in your room it's probably a good idea, it takes two to lift them anyway and takes a bit of care to adjust their position once the transit bolts are out. Ideally you wan't to be able to slide them across the floor until their final position is identified (a 5mm change from the 5.5cm mine ended up from the back wall made a significant difference). Mention to TomTom you have a tiled floor and they might be able to supply something for the purpose. Fraim chips will be great once the position is known but not great for moving speaker on.

Hi Pete - yeah take the table out temporarily - windows .... do you have windows ie down long side ......... this could be causing an issue try drawing curtains as a test. You could try adding damping down side walls  -  pictures/posters without glass  (avoid mirrors) Also - where is your 'hot' seat maybe you are at too much of a null point making the system sound thinner..... exposing midband .... try moving around to see how that effects overall balance.  The hard floor will not help......try a clap test (not the clinic variety!) .... if you have an issue you ... will get an effect like 'crack echo' immediately after a sharp hand clap.... Its shame as your system should be excellent... maybe you will have to go to direct radiating speakers - with a richer balance.

It would be interesting to temporarily try your system in another room ... I know this is not a practical solution - but it could help you understand why. 

keep us posted.

NBL's love a bit of power to fuel them which 135's are probably man enough.

I semi-retired mine due to a feeling that my room is a bit of a pig for them.  But for £2k or less, they are an absolute bargain.  They can produce a truly inspiring sound and I'd endorse the opinion to give them a listen.

Peter

Being an old house, it’s a bit rickety and most rooms have a suspended floor. This includes the ground floor as there’s a cellar underneath all rooms except the room I use and the kitchen/utility area. All these rooms suck the bass away completely. I tried them when we first arrived here.

Failed on the negotiations to have the big coffee table removed, even temporarily. Outmanoeuvred when my wife reminded me that one of the WAFs when purchasing the speakers were the castors ????‍♂️. Will focus on the tweaks for now and will start thinking about an entirely new set of WAFs to justify the purchase of a pair of NBLs.

The Shahinian website is heavily biased towards classical music in their recommended section. So I set about finding an album that hinted at classical music. Discarded ELP and went for Days Of Future Passed from The Moodies. I chose the Friday Music pressing which I think betters the MOFI pressing. Just kicking off so will report back and continue efforts to get this right.

Pete

Have total sympathy - WAF's are very difficult to obtain.......my  'Hi Fi ' was banished to the study .......... and a white trendy home cinema system now resides in the lounge. This works for me I do allot of work in my study and thoroughly enjoy the music in the process..... so we are both happy...

White and trendy sounds like it's asking some of those Eclipse things.

Not that posh ...... Q acoustics 7000i ...... its ok (actually quite good) for films - poor for music....but importantly domestically unobtrusive.....agh..

A degree of success after last night’s faffing about (not my phrasing, but oddly familiar). Moving the table from between the speakers albeit slightly behind) has opened up the sound previously muddied by the bass. The midrange : bass balance has improved, and the natural flow and rhythm of the music has largely returned. In addition, bringing the speakers further out in to the room by another 12” has also helped restore musical balance. Also, I moved the large rug forward with the speakers in an attempt to dampen the impact of the tiled floor. The bass doesn’t now overwhelm everything else. At least not to the same degree.  

It’s a great feeling when you know the music sounds right and the foot tapping returns alongside the grin. I’ll try a few more tweaks this evening, but it looks like I’ll stick with the Obs for now and put the NBLs on the back burner. Thank you all for your contributions.

Pete

Bear in mind that with castors it is dead easy to reposition, so they can be moved into optimum sound position for listening, and optimum visual position at other times. I am seriously considering having some plinths with castors made for my speakers, probably with either the castors and spikes with one or other retractable to allow the best of both worlds.