N272 versus nDAC

NDac is very nice. You could also consider a Chord Hugo. 

Although Chord Hugo and NDAC are like chalk and cheese.

I have both. I like the performance of the Hugo but find that I don’t really use it anymore. I do however use the Naim DAC day in day out. They both sound great, albeit somewhat different, but I think the Hugo isn’t really very convenient for use in a system, whereas the Naim DAC is an excellent digital hub and no need to mess around. So if you fancy a Hugo do consider carefully its use ability in the real world. 

Hi Peter, I had a 272/200 in one of my systems. I bought a pre loved ndac and a 282 and decided to try them with the 272 acting as renderer. So it was 272/ndac/282/200. The SQ difference was very impressive (in that room, speakers are nSat/nSub). The ndac is really nice and if you are lucky at auction, you can get a recent one for less than a new Hugo.

I’m unclear as to what usability issues there are with the Hugo in a system - plug it in, connect to preamp (or direct to power amp if you prefer and have no analog sources), connect digital source to input, plug it in, turn on and forget it - however it does have the nuisance value of needing its battery running down periodically to keep in good condition.

if you have multiple digital sources, it could be a bit limiting as it only has three, and not of the same type, but if you only have one digital source, as many people do,  it is not limiting at all.

OK thanks all. From just looking at the circuit board, the nDAC looks like a much more thorough design. Yes, I could sell the 555PS and 272 and settle on (say) a Chord Qutest, but I like what the 272 does. I just want more; more PRaT, more timbre and realism, a bit more soundstage width, and more detail. Will the nDAC do this, or should I just release some equity and buy the Qutest or similar (I can't stretch to DAVE)?

In your present setup, and if you can get hold of one at a decent price, you might well be surprised at the uplift in quality achieved by moving your 555 PS from the 272 to a newly acquired nDAC.

When my main source was an HDX, powered by a 555 PS, I bought the Naim DAC, moved the power supply to it, and was very impressed with the resultant SQ.

I'm not familiar with the 272, but I can say that the nDAC / 555 PS combination is very musical.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that the right standalone DAC would be a good upgrade, whether you go for NDAC/555, Hugo, or something else. The problem is that the choice will be highly subjective. I would be tempted to look out for a used Hugo and NDAC, and listen for yourself. You should be able to sell on either of them with little or no loss. 

Interested to hear how you get on, as the Allegri is on my radar!

Already I love the Allegri+. By having it I have lost remote control of volume, but I'm not that fussed. It's transformational in many ways. It allows me to enjoy what the N272 does best, what Naim equipment does best IMHO, which is listen to musical interplay, content, dynamics, an excitement coming from the DAC section. I'd like to stick with Naim for the DAC hence my original enquiry, but happily remove the preamp now that the Allegri+ is in circuit. *So* much more detail, but not in a bright and hard way.

The Pi/Allo Digione (with SLIC S/PDIF cable) running Volumio also extracts the most from the 272 DAC.

Presumably, using Chord‘s Hugo 2 could provide a remote control to an Allegri set-up. Or is there any reason (from a technical point of view) why one should avoid the Hugo’s volume control with an Allegri?

[Sorry for a possibly naive question, and slightly getting off topic — but I am intrigued as to whether that is a sensible option. Unfortunately, my technical hifi knowledge is close to zero...]

Timo 

Simon - which is which?  I don't that's a fair statement to make.  Chord-made DACs sound just fine, especially the Dave.  The nDac is no slouch either, and sounds even better with a 555PS, but then again, what Naim product wouldn't?

docmark posted:

Simon - which is which?  I don't that's a fair statement to make.  Chord-made DACs sound just fine, especially the Dave.  The nDac is no slouch either, and sounds even better with a 555PS, but then again, what Naim product wouldn't?

I think Simon means they are different,I know he owns a Hugo.and likes it a lot.

FAO Timo

If you have remote control on the Hugo 2 (I don't know) then yes, however the point is that the volume control of the Allegri+ is supposedly superior to others. I don't know if the Chord implements a digital or analogue volume control (probably the former) and some would argue this may be less effective in terms of SQ. 

Rob Watts, the designer of Chord DACS, would argue that the digital volume control of his dacs is superior to any analogue volume control as it offers complete transparency.

As an aside - how good is the Allo one compared to using the streaming section in the 272?

Peter Earnshaw posted:

FAO Timo

If you have remote control on the Hugo 2 (I don't know) then yes, however the point is that the volume control of the Allegri+ is supposedly superior to others. I don't know if the Chord implements a digital or analogue volume control (probably the former) and some would argue this may be less effective in terms of SQ. 

Halloween Man posted:

Rob Watts, the designer of Chord DACS, would argue that the digital volume control of his dacs is superior to any analogue volume control as it offers complete transparency.

Thanks Peter -- yes, as Halloween Man pointed out, the Hugo's volume control is digital. No surprise that Rob Watts believes that his volume control was better -- might be true but there is also this "vested interest" thing with Rob Watts...   

MangoMonkey posted:

As an aside - how good is the Allo one compared to using the streaming section in the 272?

That I would like to know as well -- I am thinking about ordering an Allo Digione to experiment with Roon and to explore non-Naim control apps for a life after my ND5XS... I hoped to stay in the Naim "eco system", but 5K for an NDX2 put me off... Mortgage, child and then the wife wants to have vacations in foreign countries... So, the Qutest and an Allo Digione is on my radar. Or maybe a Hugo 2 -- but for that I need to establish the quality for the Hugo's volume control/preamp section -- a Hugo 2 straight into a 250DR sounds tempting to me... 

Timo posted:

MangoMonkey posted:

As an aside - how good is the Allo one compared to using the streaming section in the 272?

That I would like to know as well -- I am thinking about ordering an Allo Digione to experiment with Roon and to explore non-Naim control apps for a life after my ND5XS... I hoped to stay in the Naim "eco system", but 5K for an NDX2 put me off... Mortgage, child and then the wife wants to have vacations in foreign countries... So, the Qutest and an Allo Digione is on my radar. Or maybe a Hugo 2 -- but for that I need to establish the quality for the Hugo's volume control/preamp section -- a Hugo 2 straight into a 250DR sounds tempting to me... 

You could be a prime candidate for a ‘sidegrade’ to ND5XS2. It will be a Roon Endpoint, with SPDIF out for a DAC upgrade, but no external PSU option. As a digital transport only, I would guess that moving up to NDX2 would be hard to justify. 

Yeah, but the Allo Digione is less than $300 and measures extremely well....

ChrisSU posted:

Timo posted:

MangoMonkey posted:

As an aside - how good is the Allo one compared to using the streaming section in the 272?

That I would like to know as well -- I am thinking about ordering an Allo Digione to experiment with Roon and to explore non-Naim control apps for a life after my ND5XS... I hoped to stay in the Naim "eco system", but 5K for an NDX2 put me off... Mortgage, child and then the wife wants to have vacations in foreign countries... So, the Qutest and an Allo Digione is on my radar. Or maybe a Hugo 2 -- but for that I need to establish the quality for the Hugo's volume control/preamp section -- a Hugo 2 straight into a 250DR sounds tempting to me... 

You could be a prime candidate for a ‘sidegrade’ to ND5XS2. It will be a Roon Endpoint, with SPDIF out for a DAC upgrade, but no external PSU option. As a digital transport only, I would guess that moving up to NDX2 would be hard to justify. 

Well, I hope to move up the ladder...   That's why I had an eye on the NDX2, with a view to exchange my XS2 for an SN2... That would have been a marvelous two-box system. 

Timo, the existing NDX/Supernait is a great 2 box system, upon which the NDX2 will hopefully improve further. My point is that if using the streamer only as a transport into an external DAC, an ND5XS2 may well prove up to the job, and it will free up an extra £3,000 towards a better DAC and/or amp. 

Richard Dane posted:

I have both. I like the performance of the Hugo but find that I don’t really use it anymore. I do however use the Naim DAC day in day out. They both sound great, albeit somewhat different, but I think the Hugo isn’t really very convenient for use in a system, whereas the Naim DAC is an excellent digital hub and no need to mess around. So if you fancy a Hugo do consider carefully its use ability in the real world. 

Richard, can you expound a little bit on this? I don't want to potentially hijack the thread, but I am interested in what is "inconvenient" (or less convenient) about the Hugo, especially if one were to use it just as a DAC for streaming.  Hopefully the answer here will prove instructive to the subject at hand.

Having had the nDac twice, with and without 555PS, I wouldn’t change my 272 for one.

G

[@mention:1566878603894290] - Thanks, can you elaborate on why, please? I have to say I very much like the DAC in the 272, its just that I could liberate some equity for other purchases by buying one secondhand or else trading in the 272 against a new one, with the expectation that the nDAC is like the 272 in what it does well, but just better overall. Unless that's not actually true, in  your experience?

[@mention:17757776930523932] and [@mention:63936634726737555] regarding the Allo digione; I have to say I am very impressed. Even with a no-name, cheapo S/PDIF cable it matched the internal streaming section of the 272 on Spotify, and improved (slightly) on my existing setup based on Macbook/Audivarna/USB/Audiophilleo technologies. I then bought an S/PDIF cable from SLIC Innovations and am extremely pleased with the outcome. I have never heard such levels of natural, unforced detail from any digital rig. It's the old adage of improving the source, and very gratifying to be able to spend so little compared to other solutions. I'm using Volumio, which is free (donations requested). There are niggles but the SQ is worth a niggle or two.

Peter Earnshaw posted:

[@mention:1566878603894290] - Thanks, can you elaborate on why, please? I have to say I very much like the DAC in the 272, its just that I could liberate some equity for other purchases by buying one secondhand or else trading in the 272 against a new one, with the expectation that the nDAC is like the 272 in what it does well, but just better overall. Unless that's not actually true, in  your experience?

Heresy alert - Simply, I think it sounds better.

G