Chord Qutest - All is well since.....

I lived with a Hugo 1 for a year and found that I hardly played it with anything else except classical music. This is a small percentage of my listening time, so I sold it on. The DAC-V1 resolution can be tremendously improved by cleaning up the USB signal. If you search for 'Hugo of streaming thread..' you will get some pointers there. The Sonore/Uptone Audio products work well with it.

Strange thing is, at least since the firmware update, which for the record I think made a big and positive difference, I've not had much motivation to improve on the DAC-V1.  Since getting speakers sorted out, I've thoroughly enjoyed listening to music like never before.  Curiosity is what lead me to try the Chord, largely based on the immense amount of praise its predecessors generated here.  In the audition, I occasionally felt the same way as now, but I listen differently when trying something out, and tend to play all kinds of stuff that ordinarily I'm not that likely to play.  And really, for the most part, the differences with my analytical ears on, are actually pretty subtle, and easily overlooked when demoing.  But in normal day-to-day listening those differences perceived in the demo as benefits, are not so beneficial, and the shortcomings overlooked, become a bigger deal it seems.  

SongStream posted:

... I plugged the DAC-V1 back in. Yes, it would appear that overall I enjoy music more with a Naim DAC-V1, than the Chord Qutest, both fed via the same dedicated PC via USB. I wrote a fairly glowing account of the Qutest after a week long home demo, and I will stand by much of what I said, but the reality is that living with one slightly longer term, still only a couple of weeks to be fair, has been a bit frustrating. Maybe needs more running in, we shall see, but I kind of doubt that's the issue.

Before I speak of any negatives, let's get one thing straight, the Qutest does not sound bad in any way, and I can absolutely understand why some may prefer it over the V1, I even thought I did. The separation, and space between different instruments, and the way its all layered is notable. And its ability to tame, and even make shine, some of the less dynamic mainstream pop / rock recordings is still something I think is quite impressive. Oh, and increased bass depth will be a big plus point for many too.

Here's the problem though, when I play some of my favourite music where the recording / production quality is what I would consider pretty top-notch, it is much less impressive. For example there are three albums by Tingvall Trio I am really fond of, and with the Chord the piano sounds like it has shrunk. Not more distant, just like it's miniature and a bit clanky too. These albums sound less exciting, too subtle and like everything has been restrained, less slam and rythymic engagement. Also the notes from the middle keys seem to become insignificant, and very subdued compared to listening on the V1. I've found similar to be true many times across many different albums and genres. Again, that's not to say there are not moments where the Chord really shines, but generally, with my normal listening habits and out of evaluation mode, more often than not I find the Chord too laid back and less immersive.

For much of the time the Qutest is less believable when it comes to vocals too, just a touch too much high frequency edge I think, and a lack of the richness that the V1 delivers.
It's a weird thing to try and explain, but I feel as though the Qutest reveals more detail in the sense of what any individual in a performance is doing, and maybe where they're stood, but the DAC-V1 provides the more coherent and indeed detailed musical performance, and more lifelike.

Of course, all of this is a matter for preferences and system synergy etc, and it may be that my view will change again, but switching back to the DAC-V1 has been a relief this morning, and I have to say I was driven to do this not out of curiosity, but because of dissatisfaction, and its interesting how much more I've enjoyed the choons since. For this reason, I suspect that either an NDAC, or NDX2, will ultimately become the upgrade to push the DAC-V1 off the rack.

Glad you trusted your ears, Songstream. It was the ‘hole’ in the midband with the Chord compared to the Ndac that made me keep the latter. So your findings are very much like mine. 

Have a good weekend with enjoyable music.

Fred

I lived with a Hugo for around a year but I much prefer the dac in the 272 for musical enjoyment.

songstream - which interconnects are you using with DAC V1 and with the Qutest? are they the same?

I had a Hugo 1 in my 282 based system on the NDX. Eventually although I found more air and separation I missed the denseness and speed of the NDX bare, I mostly listen to indie rock kind of music, found the Hugo made that sound lighter, not what I was looking for.. Maybe I am an NDAC type of person. Sold the Hugo which part financed some SL cables... 

HedgeBre posted:

I had a Hugo 1 in my 282 based system on the NDX. Eventually although I found more air and separation I missed the denseness and speed of the NDX bare, I mostly listen to indie rock kind of music, found the Hugo made that sound lighter, not what I was looking for.. Maybe I am an NDAC type of person. Sold the Hugo which part financed some SL cables... 

It sounds like you are a Ndac person. Ndac as I remember when I had the NDX, it is even darker, more powerful bass and more pleasant than the NDX. 

Fred

HiFiman posted:

I lived with a Hugo for around a year but I much prefer the dac in the 272 for musical enjoyment.

Especially since 4.6 !

Japtimscarlet posted:

HiFiman posted:

I lived with a Hugo for around a year but I much prefer the dac in the 272 for musical enjoyment.

Especially since 4.6 !

Even on firmware 4.4 I prefer the presentation of Naim, 4.6 is a bonus

I can see where you’re coming from with the shrinking piano comment. Last year I posted that after switching from good quality vinyl on a good quality turntable to the MoJo, the musicians sounded like they where playing toy instruments.

Although to be fair, the chord DAC is a must have, for anybody who mainly gets enjoyment from analysing to how the sound is presented.

analogmusic posted:

songstream - which interconnects are you using with DAC V1 and with the Qutest? are they the same?

 

Interconnects and all other cables (USB / optical) have been identical.  Literally, the Chord replaced the DAC-V1 in every sense, and this morning is the first time, since I took delivery of the Qutest, that I have swapped back.  Likewise with the demo, I didn't switch back to the V1 until I'd disconnected the Chord ready for return to my dealer.  For the record the interconnects used with both DACs is Van Den Hul D102 MkIII, as its been serving me for a long time.  I've tried other interconnects, some at twice the price, and that includes while demoing the Qutest, but to date it never takes long for me to realise that the VDHs win, and easily.  I am curious to try Hi-Lines though, if between in a Naim to Naim set up.

fatcat posted:

I can see where you’re coming from with the shrinking piano comment. Last year I posted that after switching from good quality vinyl on a good quality turntable to the MoJo, the musicians sounded like they where playing toy instruments.

Although to be fair, the chord DAC is a must have, for anybody who mainly gets enjoyment from analysing to how the sound is presented.

Well quite.  There is no doubt that the Chord reveals, or emphasizes, things that the V1 doesn't, and it's all to easy to get sucked into thinking that is better.  What I've realized is there's just as much, possibly more, that the Chord misses the other way around, and largely in the critical mid-range.  

SongStream posted:

analogmusic posted:

songstream - which interconnects are you using with DAC V1 and with the Qutest? are they the same?

 

Interconnects and all other cables (USB / optical) have been identical.  Literally, the Chord replaced the DAC-V1 in every sense, and this morning is the first time, since I took delivery of the Qutest, that I have swapped back.  Likewise with the demo, I didn't switch back to the V1 until I'd disconnected the Chord ready for return to my dealer.  For the record the interconnects used with both DACs is Van Den Hul D102 MkIII, as its been serving me for a long time.  I've tried other interconnects, some at twice the price, and that includes while demoing the Qutest, but to date it never takes long for me to realise that the VDHs win, and easily.  I am curious to try Hi-Lines though, if between in a Naim to Naim set up.

I use vertere interconnects (DFI  RCA) for my Chord Mojo, which really allows the Dynamics to flow of the Chord Mojo.

All I can say is that it changed completely the performance of Mojo, it's completely addictive musically "goosebump" thrills.

Chord for Classic, v-1 to rock would be the best Solution! İ ilke to hear minimal details in Classic recordings, feels ilke a Concert

Chord dac is great for rock music, but really needs the right interconnect to shine.

Listening to a live rock recording now and watched one yesterday - flawless - just as I remember those live shows I attended.

There might be something in the interconnect thing.  The VDH does seem to particularly suit the DAC-V1, and may not be the best for the Chord.  When I demoed the Chord, I also borrowed a Linn Silver Interconnect, but that didn't survive long, a bit too bright for my liking, and almost the entire audition was completed using the VDH cables.  That said, I tried the Qutest this morning with a Cambridge Audio RCA interconnect I had lying about; I don't know where it came from, or what spec it is.  Anyway, the Qutest actually sounded less miniature with this cable, but the bass presence and depth, and the level of separation and detail, was no comparison to either DAC using the VDH cable.  However, it did make cymbals more crisp and ring, rather than hiss, which is another annoyance that's been developing over the last few weeks.  it also sounded a bit punchier and generally lively, so while this is not the right cable by any means, the right one to better suit the Chord than my long serving Van Den Hul interconnects is probably out there.

It does seem a bit bonkers though, that I seem to be chasing after trying to make the Chord Qutest sound more like a DAC-V1, I have one those, so there's not much point in that.  I think what this has revealed is that i struck a remarkable synergy about 9 months ago, and it's going to take a lot more than a Qutest to better it.  And possibly that Naim presentation just rocks my world more for whatever reason.  On technical aspects perhaps the Qutest is better than the DAC-V1, but one of them sings from the heart, and despite any imperfections (not that I can really hear any in the end) that's how Naim gear seems to win mine.

if you can try either the Naim Hi-line RCA to DIN, Superlumina RCA to DIN, Vertere RCA or a Chord cable from Clearway upwards or the old Chyrsalis (very good) you will find the performance of the Qutest flawless and addictive as I do.

I use Vertere DFI range, and it suits the dynamic nature of the Chord DAC extremely well, but Hi-Line was also superb.

I used to have a DAC V1, which I sold and don't miss. But yes I would concede it is a very musical machine.

If you want to make the Qutest sound like the V1, just buy a Chord interconnect or better still, a Naim interconnect ( the standard RCA to DIN cable). 

If you want to hear the full potential of the Qutest, Vertere or Superlumina . It is capable of sounding like live music experience with these cables whch is why the cables are so expensive.

I use the Hanz Zimmer Live in prague album for my tests - it quickly tells you what is going on with cables- particularly the track from Superman "what are you going to do" 

I get boosebumps and thrills every time with the Vertere cable listening to that track.

Obsessed by i/c

HiFiman posted:

I lived with a Hugo for around a year but I much prefer the dac in the 272 for musical enjoyment.

May be that the 500 series is needed to truly appreciate what a Hugo can do - https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ly=75342530431803228

Absolutely not

Hugo sound amazing on any amplifier Naim or other

I have had the qutest in my system for around a month now, and have found that in my system, the interconnect and speaker cable combination became critical in order to get the sound just right. During my experiments I lived with each combo for a week, not really AB testing.

I started with vdh the sea interconnect and Mogami speaker cable which is a nice combination, but slightly over energised the bass, exacerbated by the 50hz bass mode I have in my room. Could be perfect if I get some room treatment.

I switched out the vdh ic for the slightly lighter sounding groneberg quattro ref IC cable. This made a good combo, maybe 2% towards the lighter end of the spectrum from my ideal, but I could easily live with this as I still found myself enjoying the music rather than feeling like I was listening to the system.

Next I switched speaker cable to vdh Magnum. This pairing was not so good. Things got slightly harsh and less dimensional, and vocals seemed to get a bit recessed or closed in. Overall less real and less engaging. This combo also gave me the shrunken piano which others have noted.

Next, vdh IC and speaker cable to see if there was better synergy. This brought back the engagement and natural sound. Instruments sound the right size and timbre, overall sound is big, dynamic, and vocals seem to be open again, the right place in the mix. Overall slightly warm sound but doesn't feel like it's overblown bass or making anything muddy.

Long story short, in my system the qutest makes cable differences more obvious and therefore selection of the right combo more important. With the right cables in the system it can really sing, sounding more real and engaging than any of my previous DACs (schiit gumby, nad m51). So anyone trialling this DAC would do well to have 3 or so different sounding interconnects and maybe an alternative speaker cable to try with it in order to find their perfect balance.

For digital cable I have settled on DH labs d750 RCA-BNC which I'd highly recommend.

I'm not a fan of using cables as tone controls, but for me it's been an essential part of getting qutest to sound great in my system. I may try a Vertere Dfi to see if it brings it closer to perfection, but already I am massively enjoying what the chord DAC is giving me. Effortless, natural sounding and engaging music!

Sorry for the super long post..

Dylan

Perol posted:

Obsessed by i/c

Not really. I didn’t spend 3800 per Meter on Chord Music. 

Vertere DFI is a fraction of that price

DC71 posted:

I have had the qutest in my system for around a month now, and have found that in my system, the interconnect and speaker cable combination became critical in order to get the sound just right. During my experiments I lived with each combo for a week, not really AB testing.

I started with vdh the sea interconnect and Mogami speaker cable which is a nice combination, but slightly over energised the bass, exacerbated by the 50hz bass mode I have in my room. Could be perfect if I get some room treatment.

I switched out the vdh ic for the slightly lighter sounding groneberg quattro ref IC cable. This made a good combo, maybe 2% towards the lighter end of the spectrum from my ideal, but I could easily live with this as I still found myself enjoying the music rather than feeling like I was listening to the system.

Next I switched speaker cable to vdh Magnum. This pairing was not so good. Things got slightly harsh and less dimensional, and vocals seemed to get a bit recessed or closed in. Overall less real and less engaging. This combo also gave me the shrunken piano which others have noted.

Next, vdh IC and speaker cable to see if there was better synergy. This brought back the engagement and natural sound. Instruments sound the right size and timbre, overall sound is big, dynamic, and vocals seem to be open again, the right place in the mix. Overall slightly warm sound but doesn't feel like it's overblown bass or making anything muddy.

Long story short, in my system the qutest makes cable differences more obvious and therefore selection of the right combo more important. With the right cables in the system it can really sing, sounding more real and engaging than any of my previous DACs (schiit gumby, nad m51). So anyone trialling this DAC would do well to have 3 or so different sounding interconnects and maybe an alternative speaker cable to try with it in order to find their perfect balance.

For digital cable I have settled on DH labs d750 RCA-BNC which I'd highly recommend.

I'm not a fan of using cables as tone controls, but for me it's been an essential part of getting qutest to sound great in my system. I may try a Vertere Dfi to see if it brings it closer to perfection, but already I am massively enjoying what the chord DAC is giving me. Effortless, natural sounding and engaging music!

Sorry for the super long post..

Dylan

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences there.  I personally think that interconnects can make more difference than they're generally credited for, but I don't think that's the problem here.  From a bit of experimenting, the effect of any interconnect is much the same with either DAC, their basic character rules, and the interconnect either enhances or diminishes the respective qualities, which of course stands to reason.  The interconnects that sounds better, sound better with either DAC.

I took the Qutest round to a friend's house last Saturday, who has a system that is influenced by my own, so DAC-V1 - XS2 - PMC 20.21 vs my DAC-V1 - SN2 - Kudos X3s.  Now despite the the crossover of same, or similar, components here, these two systems sound radically different, not just down to electronics and speakers, but room, listening position etc.  However, the basic difference in performance between the DAC-V1 vs Qutest was the same.  While there is much crossover in musical taste, we lean in different directions in terms of general listening.  That said, his observations were much the same as my own.  

listened to many dacs, finally listened qutest last week  .its unbeatable at price.alittle biased i had the hugo 1  .until if failed....now i have the auralic vega that iam very happy with.

Thanks for your thoughts Songstream... as someone who may have considered a move from Hugo1 to a Qutest, reading this has probably reduced my motivation further. Hugo 1 seems to hit the spot in so many ways for the price point. I myself moved from a DAC-V1 to Hugo 1 and thought it was a very significant upgrade, however this was pre firmware update so I suspect that things could have been different had I listened to Hugo 1 after that DAC-V1 update. It would certainly be interesting to know your thoughts of the DAC-V1 versus the Hugo 1