old ndac or newer dac v1

The dac v1 has its fans, and has features that the ndac doesn't which could sway it if useful to you.   As far as I know the ndac won't need going back for recapping like the amplifiers do for some years, if at all.  As long as it's been looked after an older version should be just as reliable as a new one.    Sound per pound an ndac would get me reaching in pockets.

Some things you may wish to consider:

What other components are you using in your system?

Have you other upgrade plans?

DAC-V1 can be used as a pre-amp and has USB input.

Dave

Well, if age isn't a problem then I think I'll opt for the ndac. That will leave all possible upgrade options open ;-). I suppose all ndac's can be upgraded with the latest firmware....?

Arnold

The NDAC offers greater potential with PSUs.. and is a more accomplished design in my opinion, and effectively was the start of the path that the latest ND555 has evolved to, though at about fifteen years it should be serviced, not least its powersupply caps.

SQwise nDAC 4.11.8 is a no brainer. It is true however that it doesn’t carry Asynchronous USB.  ????

Chag -

Well async USB can be a source of unbalanced spike noise on the twisted pair... probably best to avoid altogether for serious listening... Ethernet or SPDIF are best in my opinion.

aj55 posted:

Dear all,

Given the opportunity to buy 2nd hand, what would be more sensible? A 2009 ndac or - for the same money - a 2016 dac v1? In other words, are there problems with an older dac, caps etc to be expected? I would use it to better my Sonos but that will eventually be changed to something Naim......

Cheers Arnold

It depends, among others, on whether you already have a good S/PDIF source and on whether you plan to use the headphone amplifier that comes with the v1. If your source has only USB outputs, you will need to add a USB to S/PDIF interface to use it with the Naim DAC. Something like a Schiit Eitr would be fine. I have a Naim DAC and it is a great value in my view. I like its reliability and the fact that it has many inputs. It is a very effective way of bringing different sources to a common denominator. If you buy a second hand nDAC, make sure to upgrade to the latest firmware (from Dec. 2015, if I am not mistaken). It sounds better than the previous firmware.

What is the rest of your system?  Do you have a good pre/power amp?  If so I would go for the nDac.  

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Well async USB can be a source of unbalanced spike noise on the twisted pair... probably best to avoid altogether for serious listening... Ethernet or SPDIF are best in my opinion.

Have you heard the USB in on the V1? I don't think most users or Naim would agree with your blanket statement above. 

Yes I have heard USB on the V1...the statement I made  about the unbalanced signaling pulses  is factual as it is a consequence of how async USB audio works across a twisted pair, so it’s not really a case of opinion agreement... now whether RFI and electrical noise  albeit at very small levels  bothers or affects you I entirely agree is a subjective matter, but the engineering dept at Naim are very much aware of the issues of decoupling in these areas in very recent products... I personally prefer not to introduce issues that I then have to remove if I can help it.. but then perhaps that’s how I think as an engineer,and that is what I base my recommendation on.... Naim wish to cater for a wider customer choice..and who can blame them..

I believe you are technically correct, but I think Naim themselves have said the USB on the V1 is better implemented than the SPDIF (my experience). Now whether it’s better than SPDIF on the nDac is another matter. All depends on how you plan on feeding the dac as to which to choose I suppose. 

If I had the V1, then I suspect it is at its best with USB. My point was that I don’t believe it’s a big loss the NDAC not supporting async audio USB in terms of SQ, and given the choice where all other things were equal I would opt for SPDIF over USB.... but perhaps not with the V1

The SQ comparison between the V1 and NDAC (bare) is a matter of preference in presentation IME.

The technical differences between the SPDIF and USB is best left to the lab.  

The key point is that the SPDIF implementation (and USB) in the V1 uses galvanic isolation, making it less prone to the quality of the source (remember the V1 is designed for use with noisy sources). I’m not sure whether the NDAC has this implementation.

Both the V1 and NDAC had updates to firmware in late 2015.

The NDX has galvanic isolation on its SPDIF connections, that is the return  is disconnected from chassis ground , so I’d be surprised if the NDAC doesn’t... I have now sold my NDAC so can’t measure... without galvanic isolation with SPDIF one could get into all sorts of problems with earth loops... that is the whole point of galvanic isolation to prevent earth loops by effectively putting a DC and low frequency break in the return path, but let high frequencies through

i don’t think the ‘lab’ is anything to with USB or SPDIF   They are fundamentally different interfaces with different pros and cons affecting our audio...it’s bit like saying leave the differences between the 552 and the 282 to the lab........ and as one Naim employee told me last week, some of the sound differences that can be heard can’t be measured in their labs.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The NDX has galvanic isolation on its SPDIF connections, that is the return  is disconnected from chassis ground , so I’d be surprised if the NDAC doesn’t... I have now sold my NDAC so can’t measure... without galvanic isolation with SPDIF one could get into all sorts of problems with earth loops... that is the whole point of galvanic isolation to prevent earth loops by effectively putting a DC and low frequency break in the return path, but let high frequencies through

i don’t think the ‘lab’ is anything to with USB or SPDIF   They are fundamentally different interfaces with different pros and cons affecting our audio...it’s bit like saying leave the differences between the 552 and the 282 to the lab........ and as one Naim employee told me last week, some of the sound differences that can be heard can’t be measured in their labs.

Jude2012 posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The NDX has galvanic isolation on its SPDIF connections, that is the return  is disconnected from chassis ground , so I’d be surprised if the NDAC doesn’t... I have now sold my NDAC so can’t measure... without galvanic isolation with SPDIF one could get into all sorts of problems with earth loops... that is the whole point of galvanic isolation to prevent earth loops by effectively putting a DC and low frequency break in the return path, but let high frequencies through

i don’t think the ‘lab’ is anything to with USB or SPDIF   They are fundamentally different interfaces with different pros and cons affecting our audio...it’s bit like saying leave the differences between the 552 and the 282 to the lab........ and as one Naim employee told me last week, some of the sound differences that can be heard can’t be measured in their labs.

Indeeed, so why mention technicalities between the two if only ears can tell the difference in the first place