How long to run-in new speakers?

I've got a pair of PMC 25.23's a few weeks ago and they say they take 50-80 hours run in. Kept the system ticking over whilst out at work. Sound good now!

Yes put the radio on while you are out, just low volume. I even left mine on overnight very low volume.

It's subjective. You might feel they are run in once the initial audible issues resolve themselves.

Odd that PMCs were mentioned. I felt like my Twenty5.23 easily took 300+ hours. They sounded good (really good) at 48 hours but even at that stage were not the same speaker after months of running in. I had to have the pair replaced by the insurance company so had to go through the whole thing again. Knowing what they should sound like, I was less happy the second time round even at hour 100.

If Sonus Faber say it takes X hours I'd be inclined to believe them or even consider it a lean estimate. As for yoyr Wilson Audio, some companies pre run in components. Anything with moving parts is going to take a bit. Linn used to run in their gear at the factory too. But such practice is rare and crazy expensive for the manufacturer. It effectively requires more than doubling your warehouse space and all the man time in setting up and having the additional stage between production line and warehouse. Not to mention playing havoc with very fine tuned demand based production.

I got 25.23s in October, I played a CD rip on repeat through them for 3 weeks, lowish volume during the day (I work from home) and higher volume during the evenings and when I was out. That works better if it's a second system as mine is, so you're not disturbing normal living and drowning out the TV/conversation. But basically playing music through them at sensible levels for a reaonable number of hours is all it needs to get them working at peak, fit it around your normal life.

Thank you all for the feedback/advice... I understand that SFs take around 250+ hours to run-in - so very similar time frame to the PMCs ...

I have left the speakers playing during the day (Radio Paradise), at a sound level I would normally have as background music... with the living room door closed it's not loud enough to bother other people in the house in any way...

So far had the speakers running for 7 days for about 6 hours a day... so still a lot of time to go...

Actual ‘running in’ applies mostly to the bass driver, because it is the mechanical compliance of the driver diaphragm (cone) suspension that loosens up as it gets used to moving, and the bass driver is where there is by far the most movement. I would expect very little if any change at the top end (ignoring possible degradation over decades).

Was the demo you mention in your own home where the speakers are now (and same rest of system)? If not then the difference very likely is the room and/or speaker/listening placement in it.

I just think there are so many variables that you cannot say you’ve reached run-in.   Just go with it and enjoy the music.  

The demo speakers were exactly the same model (except for the colour of the wood), no change of any of the electronics and the speakers are in exactly the same position.... but the dealer told me that the demo speakers had had many hundreds of hours use... 

feeling_zen posted:

 

Odd that PMCs were mentioned. I felt like my Twenty5.23 easily took 300+ hours.

300 hours??  My Twenty5.23's arrived last Thursday so I'm only 10-12 hours in (family life getting in the way).  The dealer said 100hrs, which is still 2x PMC's guidance.  Are your ears just more finely tuned than the rest of us? What kind of differences do you notice in the sound after this period?

Is there any wisdom in running speakers out of phase and pointed at each other to accelerate the running-in process?

Without wishing to hijack Fernar's thread, interested to know whether anyone else's PMCs are the walnut finish and how they lighten over time.  Mine are much darker than the dealer's pair and any photos I've seen online.

Are you sure the dealer's set is not the oak finish? I wouldn't expect walnut veneer to lighten over time.

I once had Monitor Audio speakers - where the wood got lighter over time - except the parts covered by the speaker grill, which stayed darker... I believe that the wood getting lighter is normal for real wood veneer.... 

I guess it depends on the wood. I've had two sets of PMC floorstanders in cherry veneer, both of which were much lighter under the grills after a few years.

DC71 posted:

Are you sure the dealer's set is not the oak finish?

this would seem sensible to assume. Veneers can lighten over time (usually). As for running-in, PMCs take a long time comparatively. Suspension materials are very durable (designed for 24/7 studio work and don't forget that 20 year guarantee! Mine (four pairs, three still owned) took hundreds of hours to go from 'hi-fi' to 'liquid sonority'.

To the OP, I'm suprised! Play one 'tronblesome' track at the end of each listening session. If there seems to be no improvement in a fortnight there must be a fault somewhere.

Cherry definitely darkens, as does oak. My IMF TLS50s in walnut bought over 40 years ago still look as I remember them new, or at most just a shade darker, though of course that is just from memory - however they are a sort of golden colour - there is also a dark walnut, so no idea what that one does over time

DC71 posted:

I guess it depends on the wood. I've had two sets of PMC floorstanders in cherry veneer, both of which were much lighter under the grills after a few years.

 

I presume you are saying that the parts not under the grilles had darkened, as is usual with cherry. I'd say that oak would perhaps darken slightly with age, but not nearly as much, and walnut, if anything, would lighten a little.

DC71 posted:

Are you sure the dealer's set is not the oak finish? I wouldn't expect walnut veneer to lighten over time.

The dealer had oak 23's - which I borrowed for a few days - and walnut 24's which I took photos of in their shop in different light conditions. I got walnut as my previous speakers were maple (Totem) and oak (Spendor) so I fancied a change and thought the walnut ones looked particularly cool on PMC's website.  That and the fact my wife and daughter both said of the demo 23's "but they look exactly the same as your last speakers!".

Thee dealers' were lighter, as are those on PMC's website.  Walnut does lighten thankfully - a good example here https://www.roomandboard.com/b...-changes-color-time/ - I was just curious over what time period, and how much impact sunlight has as my living room gets little direct sun.

Most colour changes to wood are caused/accelerated by light, and I wouldn't expect walnut to change all that much without fairly bright light on it. Many wood finishes have UV filters in them which are intended to slow down colour changes, so it will depend on what finish the speaker cabinets have on them, too.

I used to find that cherry finishes suffered the most. My new speakers are black Focal Sopra 2s so no such problems anymore....

It's not that I dislike the current shade of walnut, maybe still a little jarring to the eye after 10 years of lighter wood.

*Anyway* - has anyone done this reversing polarity/out of phase thing to accelerate speaker burn-in?

Catcat posted:

*Anyway* - has anyone done this reversing polarity/out of phase thing to accelerate speaker burn-in?

Yes, but ideally, you should have the speakers as close together as possible, and facing each other, so not very practical while you are listening. Good if you are going away for a week or more and can leave them on.

ChrisSU posted:

Catcat posted:

*Anyway* - has anyone done this reversing polarity/out of phase thing to accelerate speaker burn-in?

Yes, but ideally, you should have the speakers as close together as possible, and facing each other, so not very practical while you are listening. Good if you are going away for a week or more and can leave them on.

Ok thanks ChrisSU.  I trust you wouldn't have embarked on this if there could be any negative effects, which is more what I was wondering.  That said, I'm enjoying the current constant system use, so will continue as is.

I can't think of any reason why there would be side effects, other than the temporary inconvenience of having the speakers in a daft position, and running out of phase.

I agree with Chrissu, many woods change colour due to UV, one of the most dramatic is purpleheart which very quickly goes brown. Yew often has rose to red streaks which go brown. Laburnum can be green when fresh cut and changes to yellow or dark brown.

My grandparents had a birdseye maple cabinet that turned from off white to yellow. My parents walnut bedroom suite bleached to grey, proved when we had to clear the house and the panel that had been next to a wall for fifty years was a rich warm brown.

My cherry speakers, despite not being in direct light have gone from reddish to golden brown in three years.

Some woods darken due to chemical reaction, especially oak exposed to ammonia, going from off white to gold, then almost black.

Fingers crossed for Ravenswood, black bleaches, ok, that's mainly cars and cellulose laquer, but I've seen it on a guitar as well.

Couldn’t be bothered with that and SWMBO would complain. Not only that, the speakers weigh a ton so I just used them every day and accepted that they’d take a few weeks to come fully on tune. Patience is a virtue so they say....same reason why I don’t  use cable burn in services.

Hi,

Choosing some music that is quite demanding in the frequency extremes can speed up the running process too. Something like some electronic music such as Massive Attack is what I used when I was running in my speakers. Massive Attack do tend to use quite deep and low rolling basslines with plenty high frequencies and dynamic sweeps thrown in for good measure, which do help to get the drive units moving somewhat, even at low to average listening levels. After i played the Mezzanine album all the way through and when I moved on to something softer/acoustic familiar type material I could definitely hear a more coherent sound coming to the fore than before the Mezzanine album was played. I don't know if I was experiencing running in or if it was psychoacoustics?  but it definitely improved the overall listening experience for me, more detailed & a open mid-range spring to mind.

I do remember reading through old hi-fi magazines from yesteryear and they did suggest (as others here have already suggested) to wire the speakers out of phase and have them facing close to each other which supposedly does cancel out the sound, allowing for greater travel with the volume control without disturbing the neighbours. Personally, I have not tried this out of phase option myself and just let mine break in naturally, so can't comment on that side of things. Might be worth trying if your patience do get the better you and it is safe to do so. I would check with the manufacture if you're unsure.

 Or I guess it's a matter of playing lots & lots of different types of music and just enjoying the process for the time being, which is not a bad idea of course.

Oh and I forgot to mention that the treble became smoother too, something I was told from a reliable source that this is what generally happens after the break in period.