Noise

yeti42 posted:

What are the speakers, something uncommonly sensitive?

Not sure if this is to me or OP, but if me, B&W CM8 S2, and before that, ELAC BS 244. Same results on both.

yeti42 posted:

What are the speakers, something uncommonly sensitive?

My speakers are Focal Utopia Maestro.   Now that I know I’m not alone hearing the hissing, I’m much better. Misery loves company. 

Zackwater posted:

yeti42 posted:

What are the speakers, something uncommonly sensitive?

My speakers are Focal Utopia Maestro.   Now that I know I’m not alone hearing the hissing, I’m much better. Misery loves company. 

At 93 dB/2.83v @ 1m, not the highest sensitivity around, but higher than average: 6dB more sensitive than mine, which are a fairly average 87dB/2.83v @ 1m, so that is like amplifying the hiss with four times the power, making it more audible.

Not so Got HiFi’s Elacs & B&Ws, both said to be 88dB/2.83v @ 1m.

Yeah, guess we gotta take the bad with the good to get the amazing sound we have. I have considered switching brands once or twice due to insane transformer hums and hissing, but at the cost of losing the "naim" sound, I haven't taken that chance. Good thing is, I never notice any of it when I am listening, only when the room is silent, so play on I say! 

Got Hi-Fi? posted:

Yeah, guess we gotta take the bad with the good to get the amazing sound we have. I have considered switching brands once or twice due to insane transformer hums and hissing, but at the cost of losing the "naim" sound, I haven't taken that chance. Good thing is, I never notice any of it when I am listening, only when the room is silent, so play on I say! 

Is it intrusive when not playing, or do you turn the amp off? 

Innocent Bystander posted:

Got Hi-Fi? posted:

Yeah, guess we gotta take the bad with the good to get the amazing sound we have. I have considered switching brands once or twice due to insane transformer hums and hissing, but at the cost of losing the "naim" sound, I haven't taken that chance. Good thing is, I never notice any of it when I am listening, only when the room is silent, so play on I say! 

Is it intrusive when not playing, or do you turn the amp off? 

I have put an Emotiva CMX-2 on the system to control transformer hum, since then, I rarely notice it. I hear the hiss more, but not enough to be intrusive. I never turn it off. 

Humming and hissing is okay? Just part of the Naim Sound?  Boy, Naim engineers must get a good laugh out of that.  They can't get rid of the noise?  No problem, just charge the customer more & tell us it's something special - The Naim Sound.  Luckily my gear is silent.  If it weren't, I'd sell it to a Naim acolyte in a heartbeat & try something else.

docmark posted:

Humming and hissing is okay? Just part of the Naim Sound?  Boy, Naim engineers must get a good laugh out of that.  They can't get rid of the noise?  No problem, just charge the customer more & tell us it's something special - The Naim Sound.  Luckily my gear is silent.  If it weren't, I'd sell it to a Naim acolyte in a heartbeat & try something else.

Why are you even on this forum then? Surely there is plenty of gear out there that sounds as good as Naim, but it will also sound different. If one chooses to like the sound of Naim, I believe that is their choice, Naim engineers aren't forcing anything on anyone. 

As I have said, my gear is silent, so I'll hang onto it.  I happen to like the way it sounds.  Is it the elusive Naim Sound?  Don't know  & don't care.  I have numerous Naim cables, including Super Lumina, but also use use other ones, such as Crystal Cable & Siltech.  Do they have an effect on the way things sound?  Probably, but on the positive side.  I like Naim gear, but don't but don't buy into the whole Naim philosophy.  It's good gear but not magical - nothing is.  Will I purchase other pieces?  Probably, if I like the way they sound when added to my system.  Have I purchased gear made by another company?  Yes, I have a Chord Dave DAC, which sounds far superior to my 272 DAC.  Maybe it's time to move onto something other than the 272.  Will it be more Naim gear?  We'll see what's out there.

docmark posted:

As I have said, my gear is silent, so I'll hang onto it.  I happen to like the way it sounds.  Is it the elusive Naim Sound?  Don't know  & don't care.  I have numerous Naim cables, including Super Lumina, but also use use other ones, such as Crystal Cable & Siltech.  Do they have an effect on the way things sound?  Probably, but on the positive side.  I like Naim gear, but don't but don't buy into the whole Naim philosophy.  It's good gear but not magical - nothing is.  Will I purchase other pieces?  Probably, if I like the way they sound when added to my system.  Have I purchased gear made by another company?  Yes, I have a Chord Dave DAC, which sounds far superior to my 272 DAC.  Maybe it's time to move onto something other than the 272.  Will it be more Naim gear?  We'll see what's out there.

Ah ok, the way you were talking about Naim, I thought you meant you had other brands of gear and didn't like Naim.  To me, it is magical, I love the way my system sounds, it is not all Naim, just amplification/DAC. If I could find another brand that sounded the same and was silent, would I switch? Maybe! So I get you. 

No, I quite like Naim.   I feel though, as with any other brand of audio gear, that there is always room for improvement, hence the different interconnects (SL DIN-XLR & SL RCA-RCA, Siltech digital cable), power cables (3 Powerline, 1 Siltech, 1 Nordost Odin), and a Furutech power distributor. 

Huge posted:

Indeed, provided you can't hear it from the listening position, don't worry about it, it's normal for some designs (such as Naim).

If Naim were to design out the low level of noise, doing so would have a detrimental effect on sound quality (but quite how much detriment is difficult to say - the difference may actually be quite small but Naim's philosophy is to always maximise sound quality).

Well, how is a hissing sound maximizing the sound quality? I feel it’s more like the opposite, a kind of distortion that’s polluting the sound quality... to be honest..

but I don’t mind, my foot is tapping..

It's not the removal of the noise per say that would be detrimental (I agree that, in itself, would be an improvement), but it's the circuit and component changes that would be needed to remove the noise sources - that's where the detriment would come.

It does seem odd that some people report the hiss loud enough to be very clearly evident at the oistening position, yet others say only audible right up by the speakers - and with the two who have identified their speakers it doe not seem to be purely with particilarly sensitive speakers. Maybe it would be worth people with Naim amps identifying here what amp, the sensitivity of their speakers, listening distance, and some indication of how loud the hiss is at the listening position. With a number of responses people may be able to work out if their amp is atypically hissy, suggesting a possible fault that could be worth having it looked at.

As suggested in the post above, I run a Naim 82/Supercap/135s rig into B&W 804S, nominal sensitivity 90db (1 watt at 1m), listening position about 4m away, no audible hiss until I have my ear within 2-3 centimetres of the tweeter. No audible hum from the transformers either, although I admit I haven't tried lying beside the bottom of the rack to get very close.

I also have a Uniti Nova into PMC twenty5.23, nominal sensitivity 86.5db 1W 1m, listening position about 3m, no audible hiss at listening position. Again no hiss until really close, 1-2 cm from speaker.

Just started playing around and located the source of me noise.  When I turn the amp off, nap 300dr, it goes away.  I also noticed it was worse from thee speaker closest to my components. Plus there is a faint music/talk mixed with the noise only on this speaker.  There is noise from both speakers, but the music/talk is only from one speaker.   Say what you want, but this is not right.  I can hear this from about a meter away, not from my listening position.  If I wanted this bs, I should have spent 2K at Best Buy.   I do have a dedicated circuit just for this system plus fancy power strip and the high dollar cables connecting the components.  Also, my dealer hooked it up.   Anyone want a deal, I’m in Arkansas.   

OK, that's not right it shouldn't do that.

You shouldn't be getting breakthrough (the stray music/talk you hear is referred to a breakthrough rather than noise - noise is quite specifically random fluctuation i.e. the hissing sound).

Just a thought...  Have you checked the routing of cables; try keeping all the interconnect cables and speaker cables (and even the Ethernet cables) away from the mains cables (they can cross at near to 90°, but shouldn't be placed close and parallel)

Also unlike noise, breakthrough CAN be related to a poor earth connection, either in your 'fancy power strip' or in the house wiring.  It's also worth trying the system with a simple power strip (rather than the 'fancy' one) or even better plugging the 300 and your source component(s) directly into the wall outlet(s).

Can you recognise the stray music/talk signal, is it a local radio station perhaps?

I hope one of these suggestions helps rather then having to change the whole system.

As per Iver’s noise could it be a result of internet over power cables, either yours or a neighbour’s.

Talk about screwing up a one car funeral.

I contacted Naim’s customer service and the “hissing “  was normal and goes away when the music starts.  I guess I choose to believe them.  Especially after my local McIntosh dealer offered me $11,000 trade in allowance on $60,000 worth of 8 month old Naim equipment buying McIntosh at full retail.  I’ll just keep it and buy a 552 preamp.  

Zackwater posted:

I contacted Naim’s customer service and the “hissing “  was normal and goes away when the music starts.  I guess I choose to believe them.  Especially after my local McIntosh dealer offered me $11,000 trade in allowance on $60,000 worth of 8 month old Naim equipment buying McIntosh at full retail.  I’ll just keep it and buy a 552 preamp.  

Well, it doesn't exactly "go away" .. the music just drowns it out. You will still hear it between songs and on quiet passages. 

As I wrote before - my take on this is that the wiring in the house’s circuit or the power strip is off. Most likely the ‘earth’ in either. It’s enough if one of the connections is a bit loose.

Done correctly, a system of this caliber, should emit a very faint hiss, when unmuted. When I write ‘faint’ I do mean that - audible perhaps when putting one’s ear close to a tweeter. This means it’s alive and ready for action. 

Grounding issues do not cause hissing, they cause hum. Also, in my case, I have tried different circuits, different conditioners etc. even another pre. All have the same results, it is normal of Naim gear. 

Got Hi-Fi? posted:

Grounding issues do not cause hissing, they cause hum. Also, in my case, I have tried different circuits, different conditioners etc. even another pre. All have the same results, it is normal of Naim gear. 

And how do you know which one is exactly troubleing the OP?

I don’t think you shouldn’t be so dismissive of any suggestion.