headphones

The budget raises the question: are you planning on spending most of you time listening to headphones instead of the main system? That's really "I'm giving up on speakers" sort of money.

Headphones are like speakers, so personal that recommendations are not hugely meaningful. Plus sound quality has to play second fiddle to comfort at times. I loved how Audeze cans sounded but they hurt like hell. Yet what I chose instead may be uncomfortable to someone else. 

Headphone amps are aplenty. A HiCapDR (or even a SCDR) powering a Headline is hard to beat but it is not the only game in town. Plus there are those that just hate the Headline powered by anything. 

On that budget, I'd go to a specialist hi-end headphone shop that stocks everything and spend a day of it. I spent the day at one such place in Tokyo (4 floors of nothing but headphones and headphone amps). 

FWIW, I use a HCDR/HL2 into Sennheiser HD800 which is a bit of a cliche on this forum but sounds sublime.

How about digital out from your NDS into a Chord Qutest, then a pair of Focal Utopia headphones?

Wow that’s quite a budget meaning you can put a lot on your list. I am not into stages for the headphone. But on the headphone front you owe yourself to listen to the Focus Utopia and some Stax headphones.

docmark posted:

How about digital out from your NDS into a Chord Qutest, then a pair of Focal Utopia headphones?

The Qutest is a Dac only,no headphone amp...you would need the Hugo 2 to drive headphones.I had the H2 for about a month on demo,stunning with headphones directly off my iPad.

As others have said, best is to get out there and go and hear some headphone/amp set-ups. 

With the system you have, your NDS is a superb front end so I would stick to just plain headphone amps rather than combined DAC/amps.

FWIW I recently listened to some Focal headphones, and they are very impressive.  The Utopia is a bit beyond what I would want to pay considering I would only use them occasionally, however, I really enjoyed the Clear and the Elear headphones.  The Elears were a little more "fruity" but really good and not too expensive, so you would need to listen for yourself and which you choose would be down to preference. 

Zackwater posted:

Looking to purchase headphones for my Naim system.   Have nds for source, nac-252, nap-300dr, 555ps and SuperCap.  Need advise on headphones and headphone amp.  Budget up to $7000 total for amp and headphones, but if i can spend less I'm all for it  

Well, its all up to you, much cheaper available

Fwiw I run a Rega Ear amp in my office, partnered with AKG K-701 or Beyerdynamic DT250 amo, really VFM, well below $1000.

Would I go higher I would look at Rupert Neve or Violectric amp with AKG K-812.

Listening first is quite essential as others have pointed out

Zachwater, I'm also using a 252,Supercap and Nap 300dr main source is a NDX with XPSdr and wanted to upgrade my headphone set up from HD600s and Project Headphone Amplifier to something better but decided the headphone amp must have remote volume control.

Been discussing this with my dealer for some time, a couple of months ago he offered me his ex demo DAC V1 to use as the headphone amp and offered a home demo.

I listened to headphones but liked the Focal Elear but said I would wait till later if I decided to purchase the DAC V1 he later installed the DAV V1 and left a pair of Elear headphones to try out at home during the demo of the V1 unfortunately for my credit card neither made the return trip back to the dealer.

The DAC V1 is connected to the NDX digital output and the RC5 codes have been changed on the DAC V1 remote control in order that that is does do not operate the 252 volume control.

Whilst it was a bit more than I wanted to spend the dealer offered a cracking deal on the V1, Focal Headphones and digital interconnect as a package the set up is a joy to use and as Richard said they are rather good.

Forgive me for my ignorance, with my current system in order to listen to headphones what am I required to purchase.  How does it hook up.   I thought (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) I needed a headphone amp with a dac and hook it up to the pre amp, the 252.   Reading on here to hook it up to the NDS, seems to be an option.  Please in layman’s terms what do I need to do.   

Zackwater posted:

Forgive me for my ignorance, with my current system in order to listen to headphones what am I required to purchase.  How does it hook up.   I thought (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) I needed a headphone amp with a dac and hook it up to the pre amp, the 252.   Reading on here to hook it up to the NDS, seems to be an option.  Please in layman’s terms what do I need to do.   

Zackwater, you have a couple of options you can use the record out on your 252 with a Headphone amplifier (No DAC Required) or the digital out on your NDS with a suitable Headphone/DAC suggest you visit your dealer to explore various options of Headphone and Headphone Amplifier combinations.

To connect up a normal headphone amp other than Naim's own, you just need a tape patch lead - 4 xRCA Phono - DIN5.  You connect to one of the tape IN/OUTs on the NAC. Naim or Chord would be my best recommendation for this.

I use a special Flashback made cable in such configuration

Moonaudio 430 - it sits on the Fraim with utopia

with dac Hugo2 / utopia - clear

Without dac violectric 281 / utopia - hd800s

if you need closed Fostex 900s

a dap with iems maybe ? Good sound everywhere

astell Kern sp1000 with noble encores ör 64 audio  u18t

Many choices without entering tube amps 

Zackwater posted:

Forgive me for my ignorance, with my current system in order to listen to headphones what am I required to purchase.  How does it hook up.   I thought (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) I needed a headphone amp with a dac and hook it up to the pre amp, the 252.   Reading on here to hook it up to the NDS, seems to be an option.  Please in layman’s terms what do I need to do.   

1. Signal cable, (from preamp out to Headphone amp)

2. Headphoneamp,

3. Headphones

I live in a relatively compact two bedroom apartment in Oslo, together with a female. I made some larger investments and got the Focal Utopia headphones, Naim HeadLine and a preloved Supercap. For me and my situation it has been a fantastic solution, and I use them every day, especially late at night when the female has gone to bed. But also during the day when the female is working from her home office and I happen to be home from work a bit earlier. I sometimes crave a larger apartment, but real estate prices in Oslo are very high, and even a 10 sqm larger apartment (with the same location) would easily cost 80.000 GBP more. With this in mind I find my investments to yield very high returns, since I absolutely love listening to music from my headphones, and it enables me to do so 24/7 at the volume I prefer (which is low anyway, but not low enough for the female). I have NDS, 252/300, LP12/Superline on SBLs. I would recommend to demo the Focal Utopia since the budget allows it. I did a home demo and I realized I could not return them. 

Even focal utopia can be loud in a small apatment 

Violectric 200 into Sennheiser HD 800S...literally leaves nothing to be desired (for me) 

A important consideration re headphone choice: you need to listen close to someone and not annoy them with leaking sound, or in a room with say TV on and not have that intrude? If yes to either thern you need closed back headphones (especiially in scenario 1 if you listen loud, and scenario 2 if you listen quietly). From what I’ve seen (I have no experience), closed back tend to be quite a bit more costly for good sound quality because it is harder to get the sound right with the closed back.

As with speakers,  hearing headphones for yourself is critically important. But an advantage with headphones is that it may be easier to find places with a good range than it is with speakers, so I second that suggestion even if it means waiting until you’re travelling somewhere where there is such a dealer (there’s a good one in Bedford UK, and a couple of years ago I stumbled across one so somewhere in Kowloon (Hong Kong) when on holiday. Doubtless there will be others.

If you want headphones that you can enjoy all day and all night without fatigue then try AudioQuest Nighthawk. Great sound, on the warmer side of the tonal spectrum, nice bass, and very comfortable. Don't think that because they are relatively inexpensive they must be inferior to other more expensive brands.

Indeed the Focal Utopia can be loud in a small apartment since they are not closed! It all depends on the individual situation. The sound leaking out from my headphones is totally fine in my situation. Even with headphones a home demo could be important. 

I used to be active on HeadFi back in 2003/2004 at which time the only headphones around were the Sennheiser 650 and Grado's

2003-today spent mostly with my Naim 552/500 and LP12/KDS

Last year I decided to get back into headphones for some fun - my have things changed!  My experiences have been as follows:

Focal Utopia - this summer is the two year anniversary of their introduction.  They burst onto the scene and immediately became the absolute king of dynamic headphones.  I was not a fan of the Elear - I hear that the Clear are supposed to be rather impressive.  The Utopia's still rule

Sony Z1R - closed back headphones which do not leak sound and allow use in the same room as others.  Considered to be the top closed back headphone.  Sennheiser is releasing their first closed back headphone next month

Stax -  now this is interesting.  Stax has always been held in high esteem on the Naim forum (right Richard?).  Now I can understand why!.  I just took delivery of my first set - the 80th anniversary L300Limited Lambda series w/ Stax 353xBK 80th anniversary amplifier

WOW-WOW-WOW

For $1700 headphone/amplifier vs. Utopia headphone at $4000 the Stax setup is amazing vfm.  I could easily live with it and abandon all my others above 

Needless to say Stax is also a slippery slope.  They have just announced the update to their TOTL 009 - the 009S which will be delivered sometime in September.  Initial production around 100 units (Stax are small).

As I said  - it is a slippery slope.  My pair of 009S is already on order.  I will be using a third party amplifier as most Stax aficionados do likewise.  Kevin Gilmore designs - the top two are the Blue Hawaii SE (tube) or the CARBON (solid state).  No tubes for me  - too much of a pain!

Have fun.  I have found that Stax is addicting - very Naim like ie loads of PRAT

Best

Gregg

I actually have exactly the same system and I went left-field with the headphones.

I use a Headline (powered by NAPSC for now). Headphones: AKG K812. Probably the best headphones I’ve heard or used.

Two words of caution on the AKGs:

1. They are available only via AKG Pro dealers - they are used and sold to studios, musicians, producers, etc

2. Run-in time: 100+ hours. And they really need those hours.

Sony Z1R mentioned by Gregg. These are controversial as you'll see quickly from any internet search. I love them. They are supremely comfortable, tuned for PRAT rather than analytical. I bought them after a comparison with the Utopias – they just sounded more musical. My headphone system is separate from my main (Naim) system, and I ended up buying the top Sony headphone amp (it has a ridiculous alphabet soup name) which I far prefer to the Mytek amp it replaced. If you like Hugo detail, probably not for you, but it keeps me compelled.

John

Sony TA-ZH1ES is the amplifier

I own it with the Z1R.  I also bought the WM1Z Walkman which is so over the top that I might move on the Sony desktop amp and just keep the walkman.

The Utopia's (and the Z1R) are amazing partnered with the Walkman.

When I get old and decide I no longer want my Naim 500 system I think I could easily live with the 1Z Walkman and Utopia.  Anyone who is not familiar with the Sony and just hears the word "Walkman" should Google it.  A statement over the top piece.

Oh - and by the way - 256gb internal memory and a slot for a 512gb card means 1000 FLAC resolution albums on the go

Wilko

Nice description for the Sony cans - tuned for PRAT rather than analytical.  There is just something about them!

I have an Astell & Kern SP-1000 DAP.  It, too, sounds phenomenal with my Focal Utopia headphones.  I also use a portable tube amp - the Continental - made by ALO Audio. The overall sound is wonderful.  Of course the Utopia headphones aren't exactly sized for portable use.  I'll try some smaller headphones or ear phones to use, such as the Audeze LCDi4 in-ear headphones.

Worth noting that headphones generally have a flavour of the year. Right now, Sennheiser is not the hot fashion. But things like HD600 have been in and out of favour for nearly 25 years on cycles of a few years. There is a reason why people come back to some classics that stand the test of time.

It's cliche and a bit tired to recommend HD800 or HD800s ever since Focal entered the market but counting them out would be silly. HD800 are a highly unconventional driver and they can do things that most other headphones cannot. In fact they can do things more closely associated with electrostatics like STAX (massively transparent soudstage that seems to go to infinity). I'd not count them out due to the cliche factor - but give them a listen on the end of a serious headphone amp to find out why they got that status. They are great VFM too. You have to fork out a lot more to get a sizeable jump in performance.