Dropping Network in Hardwired System.

ROOG posted:

Hi Simon, thank you for your recent post, i do appreciate all of the help offered by the forum members. 

I took my SU to my dealer today to audition some speakers with it. The dealer connected a network cable and ran tidal for my audition, apart from one brief drop out at the start it seemed to work ok. I didn't delete the wifi password but I did remove the antenna for transport. The SU also ran ok from a USB stick at times during the trial.

back home I optimistically plugged it back into my network, the issue re occurred.

currently working on WiFi connection 

I would like to explore the Cisco from the management layer and I will try to read up on this before bothering you guys, I may be able to get some help from work IT people who are familiar with this Cisco kit, although I suspect a Naim SU I likely to be alien to them.

odd that it should work fine with new switch for a few weeks then start doing this.

Absolutely not at all odd ROOG... electronic devices fail most often in their early life (and then in their very late life, years later).  That's why manufacturers do 'soak testing' on new products before shipping.

(I think)

ROOG posted:

Hi Simon, thank you for your recent post, i do appreciate all of the help offered by the forum members. 

I took my SU to my dealer today to audition some speakers with it. The dealer connected a network cable and ran tidal for my audition, apart from one brief drop out at the start it seemed to work ok. I didn't delete the wifi password but I did remove the antenna for transport. The SU also ran ok from a USB stick at times during the trial.

back home I optimistically plugged it back into my network, the issue re occurred.

currently working on WiFi connection 

I would like to explore the Cisco from the management layer and I will try to read up on this before bothering you guys, I may be able to get some help from work IT people who are familiar with this Cisco kit, although I suspect a Naim SU I likely to be alien to them.

odd that it should work fine with new switch for a few weeks then start doing this.

Hi, ok if you need help connecting to the switch, let me know, I’ll see if I can help, Cisco provide loads of guides including getting started.. just Google.

The good thing is a managed switch is a powerful device and is a powerful diagnostic tool... so assuming the switch is not faulty.. possible but incredibly unlikely.. then it is telling you something that a basic consumer switch would be oblivious too and would probably therefore mask potential issues on your home network such as poor performance and device discovery etc. Consumer stuff tends to assume everything is working correctly.. which of course is not always the case.

Learn how to set up and gain access to the Priviledge mode on the switch.. and look at the interface status for the specific port.. again Google is your friend.. you will start to see diagnostic info... you might see an error on the log or put up on the screen like Error Disable - Link Flap detected...   this would suggest the switch port, cable or SU network interface controller has gone faulty and unreliable .. so the switch shuts down the port to protect the integrity of your home network.

You have a powerful home network tool now.. so worth a little bit of time on how to use it 

Hi Simon, yes I did check out the Cisco site, as you say there are lots of documents you can down load. 

I will down load the getting started and take it from there.

rjstaines posted:

Well I don't know what you paid for your Cisco switch, but I'm getting the feeling it wasn't cheap.

My take on the problem is that every home network owner should have a spare switch in his or her cupboard for occasions such as this... and for the grand outlay of just £16.99 for an 8 port gigabit TPLINK switch, in my opinion it's well worth having one around.

Don't be tempted to buy a different manufacturer's device... only TPLINK can be trusted to provide you with a reliable & inexpensive product that can be quickly inserted into your network as a temporary testing device.

You may have guessed that I use these devices permanently, but if your Cisco looks and feels better (i.e more expensive) in your particular environment, then by all means replace the TPLink device with your cherished other manufacturer's offering just as soon as you've established that it's not to blame.

Now, what else could I have bought for sixteen quid?  I'm wondering.  Not a whole lot, I'm thinking, especially & having it delivered next day as well. Oh, I just thought... a spare CAT 6 cable perhaps.

 

PS - Just thought I should mention to Richard Dane (admin/moderator) I have no connection with TPLink, other than being a very satisfied user.

Hi rjstaines, I agree with your suggestion, swap out the switch would eliminate that variable. When I say 'new switch' I should have said mew to me, the Cisco was a used item chosen to replace my long served net gear switch which was playing up. I can't remember the detail but I wasn't able to access my NAS or play Tidal.

I did think about buying a cheap new switch, but I thought this would be justification the move on to a much acclaimed Cisco! Installing the used Cisco fixed the problem, I didn't consider it any further, my music played and all was good!

three weeks on and I am experincing the symptoms described in my opening post. 

Just as you suggest, I have by my actions tried the switch swap and from the outcome  I fear it isn't looking good for the SU. Still not sure why it worked fine for three weeks though?

Remember if you swap the switch for a consumer one blind, the consumer one may mask the fault issues and lead to unreliability on your home network under the covers... now you have experienced the issue and your professional level device has warned you,  let the switch tell you what is wrong... that is the whole point of a managed switch, they are more than just basic network switches, they are diagnostic tools to help you when exactly this sort of thing happens... which is not so unusual, I suspect some with consumer level equipment might have similar or related issues but are oblivious and just blame the ‘app’ or the ‘network’ when actually it might be neither.. good luck.

Simon

ROOG posted:

The switch is a Cisco Catalyst C3560-8pc and I believe it to be reset to factory settings. (Worked fine for three weeks out of the box.)

Moving the Superuniti network cable to another port on the switch gives the same effect, Green light, amber, off, Green, etc.

My system only serves the music system and is wired like a star with a connection from the Internet 'router' to the switch, and connections from the switch to the SU, and one each to two separate NAS drives. I will unplug the 2nd NAS as a test.

I will also change out the cable to SU

One thing I noticed last night was that when the light on the switch port linking to the SU goes off the SU identifies the lost of network, then I think it starts trying to reconnect and this all takes a while. I wonder if all of this activity is the reason for stopping playback?   

I will give this all 'a go' this evening 

cheers

Hi ROOG, to ask a very silly question, and trying not to add to your frustration, I believe the 3560 series switches offer PoE (Power over Ethernet) to power suitably supported network devices. 

If you have factory reset the switch, I am almost sure PoE defaults to ON and would probably have been enabled in a corporate network if previously used in one and would only manifest issues in a hard wired network , but may be switched off on a port by port basis from the web-based Cisco Device Manager.

Given the difference in behaviour between your home and the dealer is it possible that , if PoE is still enabled, there is something in your home network that doesn’t like PoE ? 

If so, might I suggest disabling PoE on all ports.

Best of luck, and apologies if you’ve already tried this.

KR, J

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Remember if you swap the switch for a consumer one blind, the consumer one may mask the fault issues and lead to unreliability on your home network under the covers... now you have experienced the issue and your professional level device has warned you,  let the switch tell you what is wrong... that is the whole point of a managed switch, they are more than just basic network switches, they are diagnostic tools to help you when exactly this sort of thing happens... which is not so unusual, I suspect some with consumer level equipment might have similar or related issues but are oblivious and just blame the ‘app’ or the ‘network’ when actually it might be neither.. good luck.

Simon

In suggesting a temporary swap from a managed switch to a 'consumer' one, I was assuming, maybe wrongly,  that the user, ROOG, might not be fully at home with a managed device, Simon. 

I'm aware of the benefits a managed switch can bring by way of diagnostic information, but I'm also aware of how confusing they can be to the less initiated like me   

Roger

No worries Roger, i think ROOG said he was going to look into how he can access his network devices and get the diagnostics now he has decided to buy, albeit used, a commercial grade device. Almost certainly an issue or fault has been experienced, now it’s a case of finding out what it is, rather than masking it with a consumer device and seeing random unrelabilities cause issues elsewhere such as discovery, dropouts or performance . This way hopefully ROOG can get his SU replaced under warranty if indeed it’s faulty.

I look at it like being able to drive a car, but also knowing how to open the bonnet and check the oil, and other levels.

Curious to see how this one turns out... 

To the IT illiterate like me this masking of a problem by domestic kit is very confusing, but I promise to down load some Cisco support material and read up on accessing my Cisco. 

In the mean time I thought id try another test, I plugged my SU and NAS network connections directly into my internet router and sure enough it seems to work.

just to follow up on a few ideas floated, I reset the SU and removed the wifi antenna, this did not affect the dropping of the  hardwied network.

I updated the apostrophe on the synology NAS, and changed the music server, thus had no affect on the network issues. 

I changed the switch ports and cables for all devices connected to the switch, no change.

so yes I need to stop faffing about and interrogate the Cisco.

Just one question, then I will do some work, do I need to get a 'console cable' to access the management layer?

thank you for your patience 

Yes, you will need a console cable to log into the switch (or, for some newer models, a USB cable if it has a suitable port). 

Alternatively, get on the phone to Naim support, which you will need to do anyway if you find a fault. 

I’m a novice here, as can be seen in my posts, but playing with a Cisco myself these days, I have been logging in via WiFi and the Cisco simply connected to router by an Ethernet cable to one of the ports. After initial setup with Ethernet to a standard port as well. 

What are the console ports used for ? 

Claus 

Claus, the serial console ports are used when its not appropriate or practical to set up the switch with the method you describe (standalone 1-1 Ethernet connection to a captive PC)... also the the older devices were only initially configurable via the serial console port. Also by default the error logs are streamed to the serial console port...

BTW have you connected via telnet or SSH via Wifi? That is how you configure the switch and get detailed stats and diagnostics with the show commands in priviledge mode... if you are simply accessing the web server in the switch, you will get a basic view of the status and be able to assign some basic profiles... the real power and info comes from the IOS interface... again plenty on google 

BTW, I suggest the first place to start for diagnostics, you need to be in priviledge mode with the # prompt, then type ‘show log’ and look to see if there are any errors.. possibly with err-disabled in the title. Ignore the UPDOWN lines, as these are normal 

if the port lamp has gone orange, it might have gone into an error disabled state, so type

show interfaces status

and look to see if there err-disabled against your Naim port on your switch, then type 

show interfaces status err-disabled

and you will see the reason of the disable against the port such as ‘err-disable channel-config’

and if indeed it is this then this would suggest the link layers aren’t negotiating properly between the switch and Naim and one can hard set the duplex or speed as a possible solution on the switch, which was suggested early on by a forum member. Let me know how you get on or what the error is.

Thank you for your encouragement. :0)

i shall be back after I have figured out how to get into 'the mind' of my Cisco box

This is a big advantage of a managed switch over a consumer unmanaged switch.

An unmanaged switch either works or it doesn't; if it doesn't there's no way to find out why - you just have to guess and randomly try things.  If the managed switch has a problem you can ask it why.

Well chaps I can report some progress, I managed to log in via the IP address and found some pages of stuff, frankly it is baffling, I might ask in the office for some help, but I fear the Cisco is destined for the loft as despite it being a nice bit of kit it is completely unfathomable to me.

I don't normally admit defeat but I think Im going to stick with a cheap un managed switch.

If the Cisco has been reset to factory defaults, it will essentially work as an unmanaged switch, so I don’t think there’s anything to gain by changing it for a cheap consumer unmanaged switch. 

Having said that, logging into a 2960 via the CLI to access its many features is certainly not intuitive. It took me a fair while, and quite a bit of googling, just to figure out how to change a few settings. 

Reading this thread and interesting as it is in a soap opera kind of way ( the tech stuff hurts my head) it doesn't really make me want to sell all my records and my TT and go all digital.

ChrisSU posted:

If the Cisco has been reset to factory defaults, it will essentially work as an unmanaged switch, so I don’t think there’s anything to gain by changing it for a cheap consumer unmanaged switch. 

Having said that, logging into a 2960 via the CLI to access its many features is certainly not intuitive. It took me a fair while, and quite a bit of googling, just to figure out how to change a few settings. 

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your words of encouragement, I will try to persevere. It is a bit like a foreign language to me though, I don't even know what questions to ask of Google or "in this place"!

Earlier in the thread mention was made of locking the speed and duplex i think perhaps i should start with this?

My temporary cheapo switch does seem to work. 

Roog, like you I got myself a s/h Cisco 2960 about a month ago. 

I found a manual at Cisco's homepage, Express Setup. Here you can find an easy description on how to 1) Reset the unit to factory standard, and 2) Do a simple set up after resetting. 

I followed the instructions and I was up and running in a very short time. Well, I could have been, because I had no connection through the switch after putting it between the router and the NAS and streamer. It turned out that I only needed to power off router, switch, NAS and streamer, and gradually turn everything on again, in said order, waiting a few minutes from one to the next. 

In the manual is also described how to log in to the switch in a browser window to see info on the ports and apply some settings if you should wish. I haven't changed anything, I think, except for maybe setting up a password during the first setup. 

Maybe I have just been lucky and it's not always as simple as this. But I can recommend the Express Setup guide, was easy to find via Google. 

Claus

Claus posted:

Roog, like you I got myself a s/h Cisco 2960 about a month ago. 

I found a manual at Cisco's homepage, Express Setup. Here you can find an easy description on how to 1) Reset the unit to factory standard, and 2) Do a simple set up after resetting. 

I followed the instructions and I was up and running in a very short time. Well, I could have been, because I had no connection through the switch after putting it between the router and the NAS and streamer. It turned out that I only needed to power off router, switch, NAS and streamer, and gradually turn everything on again, in said order, waiting a few minutes from one to the next. 

In the manual is also described how to log in to the switch in a browser window to see info on the ports and apply some settings if you should wish. I haven't changed anything, I think, except for maybe setting up a password during the first setup. 

Maybe I have just been lucky and it's not always as simple as this. But I can recommend the Express Setup guide, was easy to find via Google. 

Claus

Thank you Claus, your help is appreciated.

I did indeed find the express setup guide, i reset my Cisco and tried to login using the IP 10.0.0.1 as suggested by cisco, to be confronted with a password login page.

After about and hour of faffing about on the web i tried a number of login options put forward by contributors and finally found one that would let me in.

The page i have found doesn't seem to let me change anything, which is probably just as well given that I didn't have a clue what any of it meant. :0(

Having done the reset, UPNP worked for about an hour then it started dropping the connection to the SU, switching to TIDAL seemed to work for the next hour.

The connection uses the same Port, cable and SU!  why should it work with TIDAL and not UPNP?

I guess I need to recoup my energy and delve in again afresh

The default login password is cisco and you ignore the username. I only mention this in case you have found another way in that doesn't give you administrator rights....

best

David

ROOG, I suspect your switch, unless not faulty, has detected a fault on on the affected connection and disabling... however if not affecting operation on a basic switch you could argue the fault if present is not causing you an issue... therefore I would ignore... if it was me then I would want to find out what is wrong.. However to use the switch as a diagnostic tool (the real purpose of a managed switch) then you will need to borrow some expertise to work out what is what... in all honesty it’s not a quick google task and possibly beyond what is possible on this forum.

BTW one really needs to telnet or SSH into the switch to effectively use command line interface, the web interface is there to be a simple basic status guide and basic profile alignment means rather than specific configuration and diagnostics. 

DH & SIS Thank you for your helpful comments. I asked for a little advice from our work IT people yesterday evening and they showed me how they can access their Cisco switches. The interface that appeared on their screen was much more intuitive than the one I accessed.  I suspect this was some form of basic level access, but I could see that it allowed changes to speed, duplex and PoE. 

Incidentally, like you chaps, they suspect a faulty cable, a short in a connector, faulty SU or a loop in the system shutting down the port.

The difference, they used a windows based PC and I used my PC running Linux, (no windows) perhaps i need a normal PC? 

I have been looking to buy one because I would like to try 4.6 on my SU and I don't fancy trying this update using the windows emulation on my Linux machine!