Cisco 2960 - Power Cables

French Rooster posted:

the last lan, which goes to the nds, is the most important.  But the first lan, from the router, has also an important impact.  But some argue that a lan is a lan and it changes anything....

I would think the same.  I am going to Amazon now to order two more Blue Jean cables.  

charlesphoto posted:

FYI here’s my network: Asus coaxial modem (12v R-core linear power supply - stove circuit)> patch to AirPort Extreme (same circuit)> 25’ Generic Cat 6a> Cisco 2960 (office circuit with NUC server> all traffic> SFP> Cisco 2960 in living room (dedicated circuit)>Ghent Audio JSSG RJ45 to microRendu, (generic to Roku). Sounds very good!

Hmmm, now you have me wondering about replacing that 25’ of generic from the airport to the 2960, dang you!

I really wouldn’t.. complete waste of time replacing lengthy  cables with so called ‘boutique cables’... if you have a bad common mode noise issue identify the source and or slap ferrite chokes around the cables.. you will almost certainly hear a change... Ethernet cables, especially over severeal  metres should be proper network certified ones rather than fancy questionable boutique ones. The correct approach in terms of good practice is infrastructure cabling should ideally more stiff conductors, and edge patch cabling more flexible.

The aim with the 2960 switches etc is to address different matter altogether from the matter of noise introduced in cables... it’s about using less noisy and stable  PHY layer clocks... so the benefit of the 2960 switch can only be properly experienced when directly connected to the streamer. Think of it like a stable SPDIF transport stream into a DAC... underneath the covers there is a lot similarity in the two scenarios especially if the DAC is reclocked to remove direct transport jitter. A fibre segment link using cheap media converters is going to almost certainly introduce PHY clock noise over the 2960 and so if introducedbetween switch and streamer would undermine the effects of the switch... however the resultant soup of combined noise might create a ssubjectively more pleasing sound for the listener ... see my next para.

Noisy or jitter physical level clocks produces coupled noise and intermodulation products into the receiver... just like with firmware code execution timing noise profiles that Naim control to a large extent, this noise affects the SQ profile.

Now I understand with the ND555 there are methods introduced to decouple this Ethernet PHY clock noise to a greater extent than currently applied.

Well - still posting here as this remains the most current Cisco thread.

I have been a member of this forum since 2003 so I have seen my share of upgrades, vfm, and jaw dropping moments.

In my system, Linn Klimax DS (KDS/4) running through 552/500 I am completely STUNNED at what happened with the introduction of my white Cisco 2960 1GB switch (and some Blue Jean ethernet cables).

About as bizarre as can be that something like this can make such a dramatic change in things.  For me it is a "box" upgrade - not quite a black box upgrade, but a box upgrade of a different type.

I am not going to try and understand the technicalities of what is going on here - the only thing my brain can latch onto is a post on the Linn DS forum where someone stated that switches "regenerate" the signal they are fed.  In my case that means that the files traveling from my kitchen iMac overseer 150' of ethernet cable then hit the Cisco and get regenerated into a fresh pristine signal within the Cisco switch low noise/better spec environment??

At that point a pristine signal is then sent over a short quality ethernet cable into the DS and then

MAGIC!

No need to regurgitate what has been said before - simply a massive increase in dynamics and bottom end, lower noise floor etc.  About the best $150 I have spent in a long time.

Looking over various forum posts it appears that the Sweden group of Linn users (Peder?) put the Cisco switch as the equivalent of an upgrade from the Akurate DS to the Klimax DS.  I might be inclined to agree with them.  Truly bizarre the results I am getting.

It’s good isn’t it... 

Another truly vfm benefit is playing Qobuz or Tidal streaming via BubbleUPnP into your Naim streamer via Ethernet .... master permitting, Tidal just sounds like local streaming... as essentially in this mode it is being streamed by a local proxy... so you get all the benefits of local home media streaming, but the content is else where.

Yes Simon - next up is to try Tidal with the new setup.

I have been a Tidal subscriber since the beginning (actually pre Tidal when Jimmy Iovine owned it) however I always felt that streaming to the KDS (with native integration by Linn ie the files pulled directly from Tidals servers) still did not quite sound like my local storage (someone mentioned digital watermarking as the problem).

Let's see what happens now with the Cisco.  As an additional bonus, now that we finally have native ROON integration with out Linns, I can also try out the (dreaded and ill spoken of) MQA and see how that sounds.

In the end, since it was cheap enough, I also splurged and added Blue Jeans cables between my:

router and Linksys Velop wifi point AND Velop wifi point to the Cisco

I obviously have a Blue Jeans cable between the Cisco and KDS.

 I might splurge again and add one last Blue Jeans cable.  The kitchen iMac with FLACS comes in over 150' of Ethernet and terminates at a wall plate in the listening room.  I will put a Blue Jean between the wall plate and the Cisco.  It makes sense as this is the cable which carriers the "valuable" source material into the Cisco

Yes if the file is watermarked, then it will be watermarked for all streaming and digital download purchase platforms... luckily not all files are watermarked, appears to depend on the media distributor.

i wouldn’t fret too much about the cables into your switch if you have quality equipment ... it’s the cable between the switch and streamer... and in my case I found it was the cable physically closest to the streamer that seemed to affect SQ (albeit ever so subtly)

Ok

Two songs into TIDAL streaming

My Lord - what has happened?

glevethan posted:

Ok

Two songs into TIDAL streaming

My Lord - what has happened?

That could go either way... report please.

Just realized that the 2960 I got is throttling some of the speeds (we have 160mb plus) so now looking at a gigabit model like the one you just got. Should have grabbed that one! Enjoy! 

charlesphoto posted:

glevethan posted:

Ok

Two songs into TIDAL streaming

My Lord - what has happened?

That could go either way... report please.

oh - it's going in the proper way

glevethan posted

 Looking over various forum posts it appears that the Sweden group of Linn users (Peder?) put the Cisco switch as the equivalent of an upgrade from the Akurate DS to the Klimax DS.  I might be inclined to agree with them.  Truly bizarre the results I am getting.

Glevethan,....this Sweden group is both Linn and Naim users,but I agree.....the results is truly bizarre. BUT,....fun,really fun.

AND,....I must really,really say THANK YOU to both ????HUNGRYHALIBUT, who started the "Posh-thread" soon around two years ago. It was there it started, and I read about this Cisco 2960 for the first time.......AND,...????SIMON IN SUFFOLK for all the expertise advice,in that thread.....and many other threads after that.You must have post at least 500 posts of this Cisco-switch.

❤ MANY,MANY THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU.

It's because of you two,that we have this better soundquality  here in Sweden...THANK YOU.!

/Peder???? 

Network fibre bridge (~£150) ... is far bigger UPGRADE  than a 2960, but not as big as a Chord Aray.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

It’s good isn’t it... 

 

Another truly vfm benefit is playing Qobuz or Tidal streaming via BubbleUPnP into your Naim streamer via Ethernet .... master permitting, Tidal just sounds like local streaming... as essentially in this mode it is being streamed by a local proxy... so you get all the benefits of local home media streaming, but the content is else where.

I’ve mentioned a few times recently that I thought many, but not all Tidal albums sounded better than they used to, and close to local streaming. It occurs to me now that this Tidal improvement roughly coincides with the installation of a 2960 feeding my NDX. If there has been any improvement in local streaming, it is more subtle. The plot thickens!

Peder posted:

glevethan posted

 Looking over various forum posts it appears that the Sweden group of Linn users (Peder?) put the Cisco switch as the equivalent of an upgrade from the Akurate DS to the Klimax DS.  I might be inclined to agree with them.  Truly bizarre the results I am getting.

Glevethan,....this Sweden group is both Linn and Naim users,but I agree.....the results is truly bizarre. BUT,....fun,really fun.

AND,....I must really,really say THANK YOU to both ????HUNGRYHALIBUT, who started the "Posh-thread" soon around two years ago. It was there it started, and I read about this Cisco 2960 for the first time.......AND,...????SIMON IN SUFFOLK for all the expertise advice,in that thread.....and many other threads after that.You must have post at least 500 posts of this Cisco-switch.

❤ MANY,MANY THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU.

It's because of you two,that we have this better soundquality  here in Sweden...THANK YOU.!

/Peder???? 

Peder - you are welcome - I am glad its brought improvement for you - and certainly a lot better than fiddling around media converters and the such like which in my opinion make matters worse or at best no change and completely mis the point of what the Catalyst switches are doing  - unless using SFP fibre modules on the switch - and even then its somewhat moot because the Naim streamers don't support fibre currently.

ChrisSU posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

It’s good isn’t it... 

 

Another truly vfm benefit is playing Qobuz or Tidal streaming via BubbleUPnP into your Naim streamer via Ethernet .... master permitting, Tidal just sounds like local streaming... as essentially in this mode it is being streamed by a local proxy... so you get all the benefits of local home media streaming, but the content is else where.

I’ve mentioned a few times recently that I thought many, but not all Tidal albums sounded better than they used to, and close to local streaming. It occurs to me now that this Tidal improvement roughly coincides with the installation of a 2960 feeding my NDX. If there has been any improvement in local streaming, it is more subtle. The plot thickens!

i kind of doubt its related other than in a general sense - ie both local and remote streaming improves. But I do wonder if the SQ of some of the Tidal masters is improving... its hard to say as I have I have completely changed how I stream Tidal into my Naim and the difference now is significant... but there is still the occasional ropey master that I listen to - and I put that down do water marking - but I cant be sure

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

It’s good isn’t it... 

 

Another truly vfm benefit is playing Qobuz or Tidal streaming via BubbleUPnP into your Naim streamer via Ethernet .... master permitting, Tidal just sounds like local streaming... as essentially in this mode it is being streamed by a local proxy... so you get all the benefits of local home media streaming, but the content is else where.

I’ve mentioned a few times recently that I thought many, but not all Tidal albums sounded better than they used to, and close to local streaming. It occurs to me now that this Tidal improvement roughly coincides with the installation of a 2960 feeding my NDX. If there has been any improvement in local streaming, it is more subtle. The plot thickens!

i kind of doubt its related other than in a general sense - ie both local and remote streaming improves. But I do wonder if the SQ of some of the Tidal masters is improving... its hard to say as I have I have completely changed how I stream Tidal into my Naim and the difference now is significant... but there is still the occasional ropey master that I listen to - and I put that down do water marking - but I cant be sure

To be honest, I haven’t made any attempt at direct comparisons between Tidal and local streaming recently. I just noticed that Tidal has become more enjoyable, to the extent that I find myself being drawn into the music and enjoying it, whereas before, I might just have thought hmmm, sounds OK, maybe I’ll buy the CD. 

charlesphoto posted:

glevethan posted:

Ok

Two songs into TIDAL streaming

My Lord - what has happened?

That could go either way... report please.

Just realized that the 2960 I got is throttling some of the speeds (we have 160mb plus) so now looking at a gigabit model like the one you just got. Should have grabbed that one! Enjoy! 

Your 2960s probably have Gb speed on the ‘uplink’ ports (the ones you are using with SFPs) with the 8 regular ports running at 100Mb. Unless you have some particularly demanding client devices, I would have thought that would be enough?

French Rooster posted:

just bought a cisco 2960-8tc-l, white, new and sealed, for around 170 GBP. Very good price i feel.  This forum doesn’t help to make economies...     I hope Obsydian was right !

Hi Rooster, Did you ever get the new 2960? Any change in sound? 

I have a range of 2960 switches of different ages - with differing power options - and they all sound the same to me

S

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I have a range of 2960 switches of different ages - with differing power options - and they all sound the same to me

S

Pretty much what I figured, I do have an eye out for a good price on a used gigabit model. Our AirPort Extreme that comes pre switch/post modem does 174mb/s and my wired desktop post 2960 10/100 tops out at 94mb/s. In real world use not that big of a deal but would be nice to get all that we’re paying for (though it often drops down to 60-70mb/s during peak times). 

charlesphoto posted:

French Rooster posted:

just bought a cisco 2960-8tc-l, white, new and sealed, for around 170 GBP. Very good price i feel.  This forum doesn’t help to make economies...     I hope Obsydian was right !

Hi Rooster, Did you ever get the new 2960? Any change in sound? 

perhaps a little bit.  but the white cisco looks much better and i am sure it will work without problems because it is new.  I saw other new for less than 200GBP.....  I keep it.  

Thanks to all of you for having recommended the 2960 switch, 2 of which are now providing improved sound to both of my audio devices.  But, in the spirit of audiophile over-thinking stuff....

My Asus AC-88U router is providing my wi-fi and also has an 8 port switch built- into it.  Would there be any performance (not necessarily audio-reltaed) to off-loading the switching duties to a 2960G device, so as to have gigabit service to my NAS, Tivo, etc,?  I've been using the Asus essentially as plug-n-play, and have 150M internet speed from Comcast in Chicago. 

If it is standard switching duties it is  unlikely to make a difference. If your device has it specified the key measure to look out for is back plane throughput or back plane bandwidth.

fzman posted:

Thanks to all of you for having recommended the 2960 switch, 2 of which are now providing improved sound to both of my audio devices.  But, in the spirit of audiophile over-thinking stuff....

My Asus AC-88U router is providing my wi-fi and also has an 8 port switch built- into it.  Would there be any performance (not necessarily audio-reltaed) to off-loading the switching duties to a 2960G device, so as to have gigabit service to my NAS, Tivo, etc,?  I've been using the Asus essentially as plug-n-play, and have 150M internet speed from Comcast in Chicago. 

Your Asus already has gigabit switch ports, so If it is working well now, I can’t see any reason to change. 

What's the liklihood that video performance would also be improved?  I am woefully unsure whether my Tivo pulls Netflix and Amazon content via the ethernet connection, or via the coax/cable-card from Xfinity (which is ultimately where my internet comes from anyway.) Not sure whether video streaming needs 1Gb vs 100Mb. Inquiring minds want to know.....

my white and new model cisco 2960 8tc is completely silent vs the old refurbished grey/blue model i had before :   the later was fan running when it was hot outside ( during 10 minutes every a couple of hours).

I connected the cisco recently to my main power block, where are connected my hifi components ( amp, pre, psu...):  the sound is a bit better, cleaner and more natural.