Detail vs Musicality - Is the sound more detailed or merely pruned?
Posted by: SongStream on 05 May 2018
I am sure the debate will have been had before, but a couple of things have lead to me to bring this up. Firstly there is my DAC off that's been going on with DAC-V1 vs Qutest, which has been bugging me, and then there is the thread about the firmware update for the streamers to 4.6 getting some mixed reviews.
Here's the thing, when someone describes something as being ultra detailed, whether that be a reviewer, a friend, or any of you fine folk, I almost straight away feel like that product won't be for me. From experience I associate such a description with something that sounds very lean, and / or overly bright for my liking, and this has proved to be true a few times. The fundamental requirement I have for a system is that it's believable. Not necessarily indistinguishable from the real thing, and arguably that is impossible, but good enough to be thoroughly immersive, and leave me thinking about music and not hifi.
Now, it's not that I don't want a detailed and revealing sound, of course I do, but I need it within that believable criteria, which for me means a degree of richness in the mid-band, allowing vocals to sound organic, and low down rhythm guitar to properly growl for example. The other thing it needs is what I used to call musical impact, which I now believe marries up to what folk round here refer to as PRaT. This is why I dislike things that sound 'airy', it's the best term I can come up with. This airy effect can initially seem like a benefit, this impression of space between each individual instrument and vocalist, a sense of increased clarity. But has anyone ever heard live music, acoustic or otherwise, and reported that it sounded airy? I very much doubt it, because the fact is, it doesn't. And when hifi sounds airy, it seems to diminish rhythmic impact, and dynamics, making things sound boring; I've found that mains conditioners have this effect with Naim and previous Cyrus system.
When the DAC-V1 had a firmware update a few years back, it became what I would call more detailed, and in a positive way, but the overall effect felt like a layer of mush had been removed. Now this probably was a well calculated spot of unwanted noise pruning, allowing more important sonic artifacts to shine through. Even at the time when I first realised there was a difference in SQ, I was a little concerned that this might rob some of the PRaT, but that proved not to be the case here and I had no problem with it. The difference between the Qutest and the DAC-V1 is similar to the difference between the two firmware sounds. Like the same thing has been done again, only this time it pruned a little too much.
To give two specific examples what I'm trying to get at......
Agnes Obel - Aventine - The Curse
Listening to this track with the Qutest, Agnes seems much more solidly placed, her voice is right there and no question. I think this is because the reverb does not come across as much with Qutest, so it seems more pin pointed. Also, the backing vocals stand out more and the harmony of the two is more clearly evident. When I play the same track on the V1 the first thing I realise is that the cello in particular is not only more full bodied and richer, but louder. It is actually much louder. It's not that the backing vocals are not there, they're just not what grabs my attention, but if I listen for them, they're still there, plain as day, but the cello is stealing the show and pushing them into the background. What I cannot explain is why the track seems to bounce along in a more enjoyable rhythmic way with the V1, but I do find this to be true also.
Tingvall Trio - Vägen - and track of the same name
While the Qutest reveals the decay in high notes from the piano more here, when the middle keys and even when the real bottom end comes in, it's all very uneventful compared to the DAC-V1. I think this is the track that really put me off the Qutest most, just for the record. With some other music, rock and pop stuff, the bass line the Qutest delivers is really cool, and somehow much more tuneful than the DAC-V1, and yet the low notes from a piano just seem so tamed and lacking impact, it's the lack of presence from the mid that annoys me the most, but still it's a bit weird.
AC/DC - Back In Black - Shoot to Thrill
It is true that Qutest makes the bass line much easier to follow. It is true that the lead and backing vocals are more pin point positioned, and the backing vocals more clearly defined. However, compared to the V1, the drums don't have the same impact, the cymbals hiss more than ring, and the overall weight behind the guitar riffs seems to be lacking. I mention this track because I hear all kinds of things playing via the Qutest, that just doesn't strike me with the V1, and even now I've noticed them, it's hard to pick some of them out when listening with the V1. And yet I enjoy the track, and album as a whole, more when listening with the V1. But then it's equally fair the other way around to say that there are things the DAC-V1 hurls at you within this track, that the Chord seems to miss completely.
What I am beginning to wonder is whether extra detail as we perceive it sometimes, is actually less detail, as all notes and all frequencies are detail, not just the ones that are in the background and sometimes go unnoticed. Backing vocalists are in the background by design, the fact that something brings them more to the forefront, does not necessarily enhance the main event. Could this be why perceived improvement in detail sometimes leads to diminished musicality for some? Or....is it that, the Qutest for example, is simply in a league where only further up the ladder amps and speakers are able to bring the lost weight back, extracting more from its lean approach? Hmm, I don't know. What do you all think?
Alba1320 posted:Why worry about it? You seem to have done extensive testing, and simply prefer the DAC-V1. Job done!
BTW, and AFAIK, it's not illegal to prefer a Naim (or other) DAC to something from Chord Electronics...
It's done for me. I was sharing the thoughts with a broader topic in mind, I'm not really interested in debating the merits of Chord vs Naim DACs, although that will no doubt occur, I was just using it as an example.