Naim and the new Spendor Classics

SL2 is your answer 

Christopher_M posted:

Daniel H. posted:

Canada

Totem. Too easy?!

I can't say Totem interests me, even though they are made about 20 minutes from my home! 

Richard Dane posted:

I have an old pair of Spendor SP2/2s somewhere here.  They're lovely speakers, very nicely balanced, and particularly adept with smaller scale classical pieces, voices etc.. They're a real classic of the BBC type monitor and in many ways one of the best speakers Spendor ever made (and still make as a series 3).  However, they are not what i would call a particularly "rhythmic and snappy" speaker. In that sense a modest pair of Linn Kans runs rings round them.  However, I know which one I'd rather listen to when it comes to Songs of the Auvergne, or Starker on the Cello.  

Considering what you say you're looking for, I'd probably be looking to listen to something else.  Have you tried Totems or Neats?  Either mate well with Naim and would likely give you more "snap" and rhythmic ability.  I'd imagine that Totem is well distributed in Canada?

Thanks for the information Richard. From your description, the Spendor Classic might not quite be for me. I also got confirmation that the Spendor dealer in my area does not keep the Classic line in stock; so a demo is impossible.

I might consider the Neat Motive SX1. I found out today a dealer in my area now has the Neat Motive line in store for demo (there were no Neat dealers in my area before). The Neat SX1 is small enough for my space, and has a bottom firing port. It should be easy to place in my room. I also very much like the way it looks. The price is also right.

My one question is, will it be enough of an upgrade over my current speakers the Sonus Faber Venere 2.0? The SF Venere's sound great. Detailed but smooth treble, fast and rhythmic, with a nice body to female voices. They are also good with all types of music. I do not want to upgrade at all costs, because I do not find them lacking, and I could be happy with them for a long time. But, I upgraded recently from a Naim 5i to a Supernait 2, and I thought I should give the SN 2 better speakers.

When I started looking at possible upgrades, I considered the SF Olympica 1, B&W 805 D3, Focal Sopra 1 amongst others. They are all much more expensive than my SF Venere 2.0s, but I have not heard them. The Neat SX1 are reasonably priced. They are $3600 here in Canada VS $2700 for my Venere's. The Focal Sopra 1s are $10000, and the B&W $7000. 

Ideally, I would like to keep the qualities of my SF Venere 2.0 (rhythm, speed, smooth detailed treble, versatile) and improve on them with more clarity and resolution, and an even better top end. I don't want a bright or brittle or metallic sounding top end though. My experience of aluminum tweeters (the Neats have aluminum tweeters) has not always been positive. Some of them sound bright and metallic. Any comments on the Neat Motive series would be appreciated. If I can upgrade my Venere 2.0 for less money than I had originally thought, I would be very happy! 

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi,

Not that this will bring much to the party here but I heard recently a pair of Spendor A2 (part of a new range) floorstanders, albeit on the end of the latest Rega Brio amp and I have to say these sounded very fast and articulate. Not a million miles away from the Kudos X2 or Neat Motive SX2 speakers. 

Are you saying the Neat Motive SX2 are better than the Spendor A2? 

Huge posted:

Daniel, on what aspects of the sound of the Sonus Fabers are you trying to improve?

What do you like about them and what do you dislike about them?
What are the dimensions of your listening room, how is it constructed and how is it furnished?
To what genres of music do you usually listen?

This will allow us to give a more focused set of recommendations for audition (never buy speakers 'blind' but you have already implied that you're well aware of this!)

The size of my room is 3 X 4.5 meters. If you read my other posts, you will find answers to your other questions.

I am now considering the Neat Motive SX1 and SX2. I have found people on this forum, that had too much bass from the SX1 with room sizes similar to mine. Maybe the smaller SX2 would be plenty for my room. 

Daniel H. posted:

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi,

Not that this will bring much to the party here but I heard recently a pair of Spendor A2 (part of a new range) floorstanders, albeit on the end of the latest Rega Brio amp and I have to say these sounded very fast and articulate. Not a million miles away from the Kudos X2 or Neat Motive SX2 speakers. 

Are you saying the Neat Motive SX2 are better than the Spendor A2? 

Hi Daniel,

No, I was just generalizing as in having a very similar driver configuration, price, single wired, size etc.. Choosing between them would be a matter of personal taste.

I would be happy with any of the trio I mention, meaning  from what I've heard none of them suffer with bass boom or being slow in anyway. All of them sound articulate in their own right that time well with any music being played and all being much more than the sum of their parts.

I thought you were very keen on Spendor so I just brought them into the mix just to give you more choice, anyway a home audition (as you may know) is a must.

I hope you find what you are looking for and good luck.

 P.S. I run a pair of Neat Motive SX2 speakers after auditioning them against a pair of Kudos X2s at home. There wasn't much in it but I found my foot was tapping more with the Neat's so I went with them and a year later I could not be happier.

Regards,

Steve

Oh and I forgot to mention; the tweeter in the Motive SX range is as sweet as, their trump card I would say.

The D series is the "fast" sounding speaker line.  I have the SA1 - predecessor to the current D1 - a shoebox size speaker perfect for a small room like yours.  It's a sealed box and there's not much bass (not always a bad thing) - the speed is unreal.  Listening to the Prodigy (or any techno) is incredible - the music almost feels sped up.  Resolution is excellent too.  I use it with a Supernait and Hugo.  What the D series loses to the classic series is the beautiful tonality of the latter.  

You have to take your pick. The classic range have lovely midrange.

The modern range focuses more on speed, bass and details. I never really got on with the modern range.

Have you heard the A2 or A4 .... I listened to them at Bristol show....I thought they were fantastic......

Daniel H. posted:

"I recently upgraded my 5i V2 integrated to a Supernait 2. I am considering eventually upgrading my Sonus Faber Venere 2 stand mount speakers. There is nothing wrong with the SF Venere's. I like them very much. But, I know I can do better and my budget allows it. My source is an ND5 XS streamer.

There's a very good case imo for addressing this first, then speakers later. Your dealer should be able to show you the difference a source improvement makes.

Richieroo posted:

Have you heard the A2 or A4 .... I listened to them at Bristol show....I thought they were fantastic......

No, I have not heard them. They would work size wise in my space. They are similar in price to the Neat SX1 and SX2, but the reviews for the Neats seem better. Reviews can be inaccurate though...

Christopher_M posted:

Daniel H. posted:

"I recently upgraded my 5i V2 integrated to a Supernait 2. I am considering eventually upgrading my Sonus Faber Venere 2 stand mount speakers. There is nothing wrong with the SF Venere's. I like them very much. But, I know I can do better and my budget allows it. My source is an ND5 XS streamer.

There's a very good case imo for addressing this first, then speakers later. Your dealer should be able to show you the difference a source improvement makes.

I very much like the ND5 XS and don't plan on replacing it. I do plan on eventually buying a used XP5 XS power supply to upgrade it. The ND5 + XP5 sounds as good or better than an NDX, from what I have heard. Surely, this would make it good enough. 

I have pretty much narrowed down my choices to the speakers I plan on demoing. I have done many hours of research. If a speaker isn't on my list, it is because it has been eliminated for some reason (price, looks, size, not available in my area, etc). 

-Neat SX1 and SX2;

-Harbeth C7ESR;

-Ryan S610 (to be released summer 2018);

-Sonus Faber Sonetto II (to be released summer 2018);

And maybe the Spendor A2 and A4.

I really like the look of the Neats! They just look like an attractive and fun pair of speakers. They are also perfectly sized, and match well with Naim. The reviews are also very positive. 

For a start you have a great system there ND5XS is an extremely underrated player and a bit of a bargain,  paired with a SN2 it must sound excellent.  As far as speakers are concerned if you are looking for fast and articulate bass then Dynaudio would also be a make that I would at least look into they make speakers right across most budgets and would sound great with your particular set up.

I would appreciate any opinions from people who have Neat Motive series speakers. The SX1 and SX2 seem very interesting. Are they detailed and clear sounding? Good with all kinds of music? My room is 3 x 4.5 meters. 

Hi Daniel,

From what I can gather the Motive SX range are in high praise by everyone, I have not come across one negative comment on any of them so far, they all seem to be universally liked. Some say the SX2 are the sweet spot of the range albeit in the right sized room (small to medium) where they shine.

I did run a pair of Naim Credo speakers for twenty years and really enjoyed those but when I moved my system into a smaller room the Credos were just to big, physically as well as sonically. After reading some reviews and talking with my dealer i decided to try a pair of Neat Motive SX2 speakers at home. I instantly liked them, they have a cheeky way about them in that they just make one enjoy the music. To me, they have great timing abilities, beautifully toned with a sweet treble and great dynamics. I would say that they are not the most detailed speaker out there and their bass can be just a little on the boxy side but it is hardly noticeable and forgivable. My girlfriend instantly liked them too and a year later I still have them. I find them very musical in that they make your feet tap and tend to put a grin on my face with very little fatigue, you can listen to music for hours on end without ever becoming uninterested.

I not sure how they would behave in a big room however so maybe this where the SX1 would come in...

Naim & Neat are regarded as a very good pairing, I will say give them a go, you may be pleasantly surprised!

One other thing to take into account is that they need plenty of running in, when new they sound compressed but change dramatically once run in.

Hope this helps.

Best to look on the Neat Acoustics site and see if you have a local dealer, so you can hear for yourself.

Chris (former owner of a pair of Neats)

Thanks Stephen and Chris. That is very useful and encouraging information. A dealer in my area recently started carrying Neat. I will certainly demo them before making any purchase. 

I guess it depends on your sonic priorities, but I am partial to the Harbeths. I have C7-3s and they sound plenty "fast" to me (driven by a Nait XS) and not at all boring.  Harbeths are non-fatiguing, and they let instruments sound like they are supposed to, so I expect you would be satisfied with them over time and not tire of them (getting off the speaker merry go round).  Others on here have mentioned Neat speakers, and I have never heard them myself but my dealer that used to sell Naim also sold a lot of Neat speakers, so definitely listen to those too.  

Daniel H. posted:

Christopher_M posted:

 

I very much like the ND5 XS and don't plan on replacing it. I do plan on eventually buying a used XP5 XS power supply to upgrade it. The ND5 + XP5 sounds as good or better than an NDX, from what I have heard. Surely, this would make it good enough. 

I believe that getting the right speakers is a key factor in a system being satisfying, so well worth a lot of effort. Models suggested here can only be possible hints, as however much anyone tries to describe their sound to you, it is just that, their descriptions. Most useful are suggestions where people relate them to a model familiar to you - but sooner or later it dwill be time time to go out and try to hear as many as possible of those that seem possibilities.  But if initially not auditioning at home, do take along your own speakers if the dealer doesn’t have the same, to hear first in the different environment to give you a baseline (and be sure to take your amp and source if the deaker doesn’t have them). In my experience serious dealers do not mind.

As for source, whilst the ND5XS is a nice streamer, it certainly can be improved upon, and a lot. Personally I found the XP5XS a very disappointing upgrade, such a marginal improvement to be not worth the money (if that is how little better than ND5XS an NDX sounds like, I’m glad I didn’t have the money for one when I bought the ND5XS!). For me, Hugo was a much bigger upgrade to ND5XS.

Some people would have it that improving the source first is best, indeed that I think tends to be the majority view on the forum, saying as it will bring out the best in the rest of the system, including your speakers. However unless your speakers are good enough they will always be limiting, while if you have speakers that are spot on you can enjoy your source to its best, then later have the delights of improving the source. Two different approaches, both have their supporters - up to you what you choose.

GraemeH posted:

Pcd posted:

The D7s are actually rear ported via the large Venturi type port as shown and can go fairy close to a wall depending on the room.

I actually thought I was going to buy some PMC speakers during a system update but ended up much preferring these, speakers are a very personal choice so try to listen to as many as possible a home demos is a must 

 

Always like to see a well spiked carpet - the sign of a committed audiophile!

G

G, been an avid spiker for nearly 40 years.

Get an nDAC ,first.

As for speakers it's a pity Naim are no more into because it is exactly what you're looking for.

Failing that Neat would be my strong recommendation.

Spendor are fine speakers  but   not what you're looking for 

@ Daniel: To these ears, Naim and Spendor aren’t an optimal match, mostly because of speed and timing issues. 

//Jonas