Atom to Nova or Star?

The quality of the sound has rarely had an effect on my foot tapping to music. I find the quality of the music itself has the most effect in this area. 

I can’t wait

My Star arrives on Tuesday, I almost bought an Atom but feared I’d soon want more, I’m not worried at all that I didn’t choose the Nova, (not that I could afford it anyway!)

The only other HiFi Systems I’ve had are my two MuSo’s, so the Star will be a big leap for me, i agree it’s hard to find a decent review, but I have read that the Nova being the reference system, isn’t as musically entertaining and is more transparent compared to the Atom and Star which are a little more fun musically.

Course I may never know, but I’ll be sure to report how I get on with it, especially CD Rips vs Tidal

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Sloop John B posted:

From looking at my system analysis whilst trying to get a handle on another issues it would seem that Roon buffers the full track from Tidal and then plays from the buffer. There is a big download spike for the first few seconds of a track and then minimal inward data.

 

ahh - you have possibly discovered the different TCP transfer profiles that I have mentioned before on this forum.. on the classic streamers at least there are two basic modes of TCP operation. There is the use of TCP Zero windows size semaphoring method.. this tends to happen on the home network sources when wired. Here the data transfers it bursts with quite a  space between bursts.  This sometimes happens on internet streaming with faster links or less busy servers at the other end. The alternative method is more of dynamic flow control of confirming TCP window segments.. this is where the data rate throughput is slower and or longer round trip delay latency. I have found this two different TCP behaviours on the Naim streamers can subtly affect the sound - as the latter requires more processing of the protocol machine. Both methods aggressively work to fill the buffers at the start of the media TCP transfer.

By using a proxy server for my internet streaming providing a protocol break I can typically transfer the data by the former method into my streamer which sounds better - and I can also get a more consistent inter frame spacing over the ethernet into my streamer whilst transfer is active and this tends to sound subjectively better to my ears. Also my proxy has larger TCP segment buffers so can better handle variable greater latency from internet sourced transfer than the original Naim streamers. This has changed in the newer streamers as the buffers have increased so latency should be less of an issue with drop out.

However all things being equal I have found the masters on Qobuz more typically match the masters of my rips, and less so with Tidal. I have noticed a greater propensity for loudness levels to be higher on Tidal. But this is not general - and varies - its a case of probabilities.

However (un scientific warning flag)  i have noticed when I discretely watch my family  (who listen to the Naim)  when  listening to local stream or Qobuz proxy stream  feet will often tap to the music - when Tidal played  (via proxy) with same artists - but cant confirm master version - this happened  very rarely.... 

Thank you for the detailed explanation, can you share which proxy are you using? also any other details as of switch type? flowcontrol on/off? mtu size?

I haven't done any packet captures but thought and would have assume audio streams was UDP protocol with low size packets (10 bytes or so) but you mention TCP framing in your post.

Thank you

Tastiehastie77 posted:

I started with the Nap 100, Bi amped...It was amazing, but I hankered for more power, so switched out the 100 and added the 200. (not bi amped...didn't make much sense)

It is insanely good.

I have a front end I love (aesthetically and sound wise) with enough power to get my speakers under control.

tastie, im interested in your experiences with the 200 plugged into the atom. I have been considering this also, as I drive a pair of naim allae currently and it sounds very good, but I feel the allaes could do with a bit more power and I know that 200' work well with them from a previous older system. has the sound of the atom changed at all, or has it remained but with more power?

longmanjon posted:

Tastiehastie77 posted:

I started with the Nap 100, Bi amped...It was amazing, but I hankered for more power, so switched out the 100 and added the 200. (not bi amped...didn't make much sense)

It is insanely good.

I have a front end I love (aesthetically and sound wise) with enough power to get my speakers under control.

tastie, im interested in your experiences with the 200 plugged into the atom. I have been considering this also, as I drive a pair of naim allae currently and it sounds very good, but I feel the allaes could do with a bit more power and I know that 200' work well with them from a previous older system. has the sound of the atom changed at all, or has it remained but with more power?

To my ears....and as Iv'e stated before, I'm no audiophile, I just like what I like....

Adding the 200 did change the sound, but for the better, more clarity, deeper bass, and of course....more power.

I have B&W CM10's and possibly like you, they just needed something more.

I’m moving a UnitiCute/NAP100 to a new media room and upgrading the lounge system. I was heading to a Star with my Totem Hawks, but have decided on Nova and Core as an end game. Can then upgrade speakers later on and move the Hawks to the. Edit room. I currently rip to my Mac, but want a higher quality and stand alone ripping system.

I went for the Nova in the end and have it a week now, very happy and bar the slightly dodgy display panel fit its better then the Atom in every way, it’s got about 90 hours up on it now so it should continue to improve. In terms of value for money though, I suspect the Atom wins easily, you could buy two for the price of a Nova and matched with the right speakers it’s a brilliant little box and perhaps all you need. 

Mercky posted:

So, thinking of giving in to the upgradeitis disease and moving up from the Atom, the Nova would be a natural choice but then I got thinking about the Star, funny it seems to be the poor relation somehow and going by this forum probably the least popular of all three unities, even online there’s not many reviews compared to the other two. It’s got a lot going for it though - a CD player and ripper, more clout then the Atom with 70w, possibly sweeter sounding too and then there’s the cost which is significantly less then the Nova, with the price difference I could buy an RP2 deck and phono stage to listen to my old vinyl. With the Atom I listen almost exclusively to Tidal and iradio but the ability to rip cd’s and not be totally reliant on a music subscription and internet is attractive. I haven’t auditioned a Nova or Star as yet but I have a niggling worry I may feel short changed with the Star and regret not going the extra mile for the Nova and then spending a bit more later on to address the cd’s and ripping if I still want to. Then again I could just stick with the Atom which is sounding rather nice these days. Anyone out there with a Star that might offer some thoughts? 

I had an Atom bought rather impulsively as it was in stock - there was a display fault so I had it RMA'd - my dealer was happy to consider a refund/replacement or upgrade to a Nova which by this time was also available in stock.

The Atom is fantastic, but the Nova adds so much more details and layers to the music, hence my decision to go for the Nova.

The problem was I'd got the Atom as a one box playback unit to use as a lifestyle product until I got my 'proper' hi-fi out of storage - basically moderately well-specced LP12, old NAC-72, assorted Hi-CAPs and active SBLs powered by 2xNAP250.

The trouble is you soon get the 'what if' feeling when you're switched on to hi-fi.

So my next question was where do you go with the Nova?  I think I surmised this could be a replacement for my NAC-72 pre and added a NAP 250 and it sounds extremely good (Nova firmware dependent!) with old Epos ES14s.

Now therein lies the problem, other 'upgrades are limited without replacing a 'box' - I've tried fancy Ethernet cables (worth exploring) and considered fibre bridges.

The issue for me is that I want more - better streamer, better pre-amp and newer DR power amps - grest for my dealer and Naim!

While the Nova is considerably better than the Atom in my view, I've realise dI use very few of the inputs at the moment - basically Analogue 1 for LP12 (digitised but you'd never know as it sounds better than streaming), Qobuz or Apple Music via Chromecast/Airplay, Roon and NAS playback over the LAN.

So where am I going with this?  The Nova is a one-box solution but has many many digital and analogue inputs - I wonder how many of the target audience will actually use more than a few of these?  Perhaps these inputs are cheap to add if there's space but I think I will ultimately go for something like the NAC-272N with new power amps or maybe a NAC-282 so I can use spare Hi-Caps with that and a new streamer and power amps.

I'd maybe ask your dealer to A/B an Atom vs Atom with NAPxxx vs Nova and maybe a NAC-272 and power amp solution - that might push you towards Atom with external power amp as a setp to something beyond Nova in the future.

No correct answer here.

The Star to me looks a real all-rounder if it were your first purchase, but if you want SQ upgrades, while it may better than the Atom, I can't see it'll match the Nova.

Mercky posted:

I went for the Nova in the end and have it a week now, very happy and bar the slightly dodgy display panel fit its better then the Atom in every way, it’s got about 90 hours up on it now so it should continue to improve. In terms of value for money though, I suspect the Atom wins easily, you could buy two for the price of a Nova and matched with the right speakers it’s a brilliant little box and perhaps all you need. 

Oops - missed that !

Your summary is correct - always a law of diminishing returns as we upgrade, and for the cost the Atom is a stonker of a musical device.

The Uniti range are neat one box solutions, but do sound damn fine.

The other day I heard a 272 I to a SN2 (odd) and Pants 2, for me the speakers were the real difference, I didn't think the 272 was doing it for me vs a Nova.

My plan was NDX2/SN2 to keep a less intrusive setup, but I do find with the Nova unlike any other Naim product I have had doesn't make me want to upgrade, I'm quite content and a bit of cable and setup tweaking makes a very enjoyable listening experience.

Alley Cat posted:

Mercky posted:

I went for the Nova in the end and have it a week now, very happy and bar the slightly dodgy display panel fit its better then the Atom in every way, it’s got about 90 hours up on it now so it should continue to improve. In terms of value for money though, I suspect the Atom wins easily, you could buy two for the price of a Nova and matched with the right speakers it’s a brilliant little box and perhaps all you need. 

Oops - missed that !

Your summary is correct - always a law of diminishing returns as we upgrade, and for the cost the Atom is a stonker of a musical device.

I won’t be upgrading the Nova as I’ve spent quite enough, I do foresee a Core though perhaps as a Christmas present! I also need to get my vinyl solution sorted. Listening now as I write to Radio Swiss Jazz on the Nova, sounds incredible for 128k.

Mercky posted:

Alley Cat posted:

Mercky posted:

I went for the Nova in the end and have it a week now, very happy and bar the slightly dodgy display panel fit its better then the Atom in every way, it’s got about 90 hours up on it now so it should continue to improve. In terms of value for money though, I suspect the Atom wins easily, you could buy two for the price of a Nova and matched with the right speakers it’s a brilliant little box and perhaps all you need. 

Oops - missed that !

Your summary is correct - always a law of diminishing returns as we upgrade, and for the cost the Atom is a stonker of a musical device.

I won’t be upgrading the Nova as I’ve spent quite enough, I do foresee a Core though perhaps as a Christmas present! I also need to get my vinyl solution sorted. Listening now as I write to Radio Swiss Jazz on the Nova, sounds incredible for 128k.

I don't think you need to have any concerns about the digitised analogue inputs - they sound very natural to me, so much so that I prefer vinyl on the LP12 to the equivalent album downloads from Qobuz in HD.

ChrisSU posted:

Mercky posted:

Tastiehastie77 posted:

I love my little atom, so much so, rather than upgrade to a star/nova...I added a Nap 200DR

So how did that work out for you? I've heard even a NAP100 works wonders and I did have an offer of a used one at a good price. Having said that a 200DR will cost as much as a Nova upgrade or thereabouts. Thanks everyone for the guidance above and it sort of concurs with my instincts too, either stick with the Atom or go the whole hog with the Nova!

I wouldn’t buy a new 200DR for this, when you could get a good used non-DR version for half the price. The DR version only supplies DR power to a Naim preamp, which you are not using, so there is little or no benefit to it in this case. 

Thanks CHRISU, I was looking not too long ago at a 250DR (was obsessed it must be DR) aim was eventually to swap the Nova to 272 and pair it with the 250DR. As you the DR would have been pointless.

Currently think NDX2/SN2 is a better solution.

That said I thought the 272 was ????

Obsydian posted:

ChrisSU posted:

 

 

 

I wouldn’t buy a new 200DR for this, when you could get a good used non-DR version for half the price. The DR version only supplies DR power to a Naim preamp, which you are not using, so there is little or no benefit to it in this case. 

Thanks CHRISU, I was looking not too long ago at a 250DR (was obsessed it must be DR) aim was eventually to swap the Nova to 272 and pair it with the 250DR. As you the DR would have been pointless.

Currently think NDX2/SN2 is a better solution.

That said I thought the 272 was ????

If my memory is correct, the 250 DR is a different kettle,of,fish. As the 250 is a regulated amp, the 250DR gets DR on the power amplification side with the advantages that brings, where, as correctly said above, on the 200dr the DR is for powering a pre-amp.

Yes Eoink is right. In fact the DR in 200DR is pointless unless you have a preamp to be powered by it as it's only the preamp supply that is DRd. But 250DR, 300DR and 500DR all have the power amp DRd, so with a 272 for example you would definitely go for a 250DR or a 300DR but you could just as well use a 200 as a 200DR.

best

David

Eoink posted:

Obsydian posted:

ChrisSU posted:

 

 

 

I wouldn’t buy a new 200DR for this, when you could get a good used non-DR version for half the price. The DR version only supplies DR power to a Naim preamp, which you are not using, so there is little or no benefit to it in this case. 

Thanks CHRISU, I was looking not too long ago at a 250DR (was obsessed it must be DR) aim was eventually to swap the Nova to 272 and pair it with the 250DR. As you the DR would have been pointless.

Currently think NDX2/SN2 is a better solution.

That said I thought the 272 was ????

If my memory is correct, the 250 DR is a different kettle,of,fish. As the 250 is a regulated amp, the 250DR gets DR on the power amplification side with the advantages that brings, where, as correctly said above, on the 200dr the DR is for powering a pre-amp.

Quite right, my comment applies specifically to the 200DR. There were other minor changes bought in with the DR model which may improve it’s performance in other ways, but I very much doubt this would be enough to justify the extra cost if it doesn’t also power a Naim preamp. 

Oh no I'm getting DR fever again ????

Not to change the subject but, I think TIMO got it right when he said : Jump as high as you can ! I’m the recently proud first time (naim) owner of a nova & even more recent a core & i am very happy with this setup even while not being fully broken-in yet the unit sounds great and I only see it sounding better. Very glad I waited and did it right. Bit of a learning curve on the app, (which I will say naim tech support has been great) but other than that a great little unit.

Freedomsounds posted:

Not to change the subject but, I think TIMO got it right when he said : Jump as high as you can ! I’m the recently proud first time (naim) owner of a nova & even more recent a core & i am very happy with this setup even while not being fully broken-in yet the unit sounds great and I only see it sounding better. Very glad I waited and did it right. Bit of a learning curve on the app, (which I will say naim tech support has been great) but other than that a great little unit.

Nice one. I’m picking up the same next week. Starting to get excited. What speakers are you using? I have Totem Hawks running off a UnitiCute2 and NAP100, but these are going to the media room to run off some old Aucoustic Research AR22bx’s.

As a Uniti Star owner I feel like im in the minority here, everyone seems to have an Atom or Nova.

It would be interesting to see what the % sales of each system is against each other, I bet the Star is the lowest, which is a shame because it’s a nice piece of kit, with many features over the others, I think maybe if it was priced more in the middle of the others it would be more popular.

I think Atom buyers, either just add speakers for a simple or second room setup, or already have a decent power amp/speakers and Nova buyers are already heavily invested in HiFi and already have the CD player/Ripper/Server that the Star offers and go for the extra power and better sound quality.

For me the Star represents my first entry into in to Proper HiFi and although closer to the Nova in terms of price, despite my tight budget, I took the plunge because I didn’t want to be spending £££’s more on a separate CD player / additional amp etc, and I hoped the 70watt per channel would be plenty, which so far with my budget second hand circa 1990’s speakers is more than enough.

Just need to sell my soul now to get some reasonable speakers to do it justice, overall I’m very happy with it.

Anavrin posted:

As a Uniti Star owner I feel like im in the minority here, everyone seems to have an Atom or Nova.

It would be interesting to see what the % sales of each system is against each other, I bet the Star is the lowest, which is a shame because it’s a nice piece of kit, with many features over the others, I think maybe if it was priced more in the middle of the others it would be more popular.

I think Atom buyers, either just add speakers for a simple or second room setup, or already have a decent power amp/speakers and Nova buyers are already heavily invested in HiFi and already have the CD player/Ripper/Server that the Star offers and go for the extra power and better sound quality.

For me the Star represents my first entry into in to Proper HiFi and although closer to the Nova in terms of price, despite my tight budget, I took the plunge because I didn’t want to be spending £££’s more on a separate CD player / additional amp etc, and I hoped the 70watt per channel would be plenty, which so far with my budget second hand circa 1990’s speakers is more than enough.

Just need to sell my soul now to get some reasonable speakers to do it justice, overall I’m very happy with it.

Personally I think the Star looks a great package - I initially got an Atom without demoing as it was in stock.  Neither Nova or Core were available at this point and the intent was for a secondary system.  Then the hi-fi bug hit so I wanted to compare Atom vs Nova, and as you'd expect the Nova was better and I went for that.  I'd actually love to compare all 3, as I suspect each have their strengths.  For me the Star seems a great solution overall especially if you're not very computer minded and would prefer another device to rip CDs.

Interestingly for me as I currently use the Nova outputting to an old NAP 250 is how much of the Nova's cost was on better power vs pre amp circuitry - if th epee-amp circuitry for example is similar I may have been better off getting a Star assuming I'm using the NAP 250 for power amp duties.

Hi Alley Cat

I think the Nova will have a better pre-amp than the others as it’s the reference system in the range, and it’s no secret it has superior sound quality, I do wonder though if there’s much difference between the Atom and the Star in terms of sound quiality, I suspect apart from the power difference,  maybe only a little, I think they share a similar circuit design, and due to having more space internally in the Star to arrange components better, it might have an edge over the Atom.

I heard the three of them one after the other in a demo at the factory 18 months ago and imho the Star was clearly better in all respects than the Atom but the Nova was as much better again than the Star.  Jason was playing stuff loud through the unfortunately inevitable Focal speakers. The Atom sounded good if a bit strained and the Star sounded much more on top of what was being demanded of it. But the Nova just was nicer to listen to and more musical, so that I stopped listening to the HiFi and found myself listening to the music.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

I heard the three of them one after the other in a demo at the factory 18 months ago and imho the Star was clearly better in all respects than the Atom but the Nova was as much better again than the Star.  Jason was playing stuff loud through the unfortunately inevitable Focal speakers. The Atom sounded good if a bit strained and the Star sounded much more on top of what was being demanded of it. But the Nova just was nicer to listen to and more musical, so that I stopped listening to the HiFi and found myself listening to the music.

best

David

As the owner of a recently bought Star, I wish I hadn't just read that 

David Hendon posted:

I heard the three of them one after the other in a demo at the factory 18 months ago and imho the Star was clearly better in all respects than the Atom but the Nova was as much better again than the Star.  Jason was playing stuff loud through the unfortunately inevitable Focal speakers. The Atom sounded good if a bit strained and the Star sounded much more on top of what was being demanded of it. But the Nova just was nicer to listen to and more musical, so that I stopped listening to the HiFi and found myself listening to the music.

best

David

Yes that’s one thing I noticed since I got the Nova - I’m listening to the music much more rather then with the Atom where I was constantly listening to the hifi with a critical ear. The Star would have suited my needs perfectly but as advised here I was worried I’d always have the Nova itch to scratch, I have to say it’s really great and a huge step up from the Atom and it should continue to improve. I do have slight Star regret but am happy knowing the Nova is top of the uniti pile and I’ll sort a cd solution in time, perhaps a core or a zen mini. The Atom is great value though and is very impressive for its size and price but the Nova has my Spendor A4’s standing to attention, a great combo by the way if anyone is considering speakers for a Nova.