Mobile Hifi 3.0 - Pulled the trigger on Sony NW-WM1Z

Just looked it up.....classy piece of kit, Sony can do great Hifi when they put their mind to it.

Wow, that's some bit of kit.  James, you must be really looking forward to putting those first 200 hours on it.

A question for you or Bert (or anyone else who may know): Is there a version in a different colour, or is it only in gold?  And... not being a fan of IEMs (which meant the ZX2 sadly didn't work out for me), does this one work well driving full sized headphones, even high impedance ones such as Senn HD600s?

Gold is the color and its a half KG brick so its not very pocket friendly.... it drives well almost everything except very power hungry ones.... but feel at home with Focal Clear / Utopia

You got more economic model 1A which is black, still very good DAP

You might wanna check SP1000 as well...

i own both, like both...

Thanks folks. Richard, I must admit the gold colour did put me off at first but in the flesh it has a lovely matt finish and (for someone who doesn't like bling) overall it's a rather handsome looking beast. Fit and finish is superb as it should be at this price. 

I've managed to squeeze a fair bit of my music library across the internal memory and a 400Gb Micro SD card so i'm looking forward to getting further acquainted over the next few weeks. I spent a few hours listening last night and it's certainly a very accomplished source and musically very satisfying. It's a bigger than expected step up on the ZX2 which itself, is a lovely machine and one I've spent a lot of time listening to over the last 3 years. As i found with my ZX2, these devices take a good few hours to get into their stride so there's probably more to come yet (and even more from the balanced output)

Plans for the near future are to keep the SE846's for work use. Their noise isolation and general unobtrusive appearance suit my working environment. For home use, explore some high end 'phones and see what works for me. The Focal Clear and Sony Z1R look interesting and the comments from Gregg and Emre tempt me to include the Utopias in that selection too.

Anyway thanks again Bert for sowing the seed and everyone else who has contributed to this thread. It's provided some interesting reading and after a lot of thinking, a new purchase  

James

I recently order a Z1R as well.... different flavor than Utopia and they are closed back...

They are doing a promo on Utopia giving a dap for free maybe you can find a good deal...

Curious if anyone has loaded the latest software (FW 3.00) which adds the USB DAC functionality (and a few other features and fixes) onto their 1Z ?

There are quite a few reports on Headfi about it.

I had no problem loading it (Mac OS version) and I have successfully connected my iPhone XS Max to the 1Z using the supplied Sony cable and the Apple CCK.  TIDAL and Spotify successfully stream - great feature to have.

The one universal problem everyone is complaining about is how long it is taking to build the database on every start up.  On the flip side others are reporting a snappier user interface.

I briefly played with the vinyl settings.  A quick impression (very quick) is that they are not bad.

Best

Gregg

Much appreciated Gregg - i'll give it a go. 

Cheers

James

Richard Dane posted:

Wow, that's some bit of kit.  James, you must be really looking forward to putting those first 200 hours on it.

A question for you or Bert (or anyone else who may know): Is there a version in a different colour, or is it only in gold?  And... not being a fan of IEMs (which meant the ZX2 sadly didn't work out for me), does this one work well driving full sized headphones, even high impedance ones such as Senn HD600s?

With the solid copper chassis, I thought you might be able to swing a deal with Naim HQ - have them strip the gold finish and replace it with lovely 500 series black.  Now that would be QUALITY!!

Peter

james n posted:

Curious if anyone has loaded the latest software (FW 3.00) which adds the USB DAC functionality (and a few other features and fixes) onto their 1Z ?

Didn't do it yet, I always wait a bit to see if issues area sorted out properly. I don;'t want to be a tester on this device.

Richard Dane posted:

And... not being a fan of IEMs (which meant the ZX2 sadly didn't work out for me), does this one work well driving full sized headphones, even high impedance ones such as Senn HD600s?

Richard

When I decide to bin my 500 series black boxes    I could live forever content with a Sony 1Z and Focal Utopias (and Kimber Axios headphone cable).

Best

Gregg

PS

Although I must say that my new love affair with Stax may change the equation!

A quick update on this little journey. 

I'd been using a Sony NW-ZX2 since 2015 as my work system along with a set of Shure SE846 IEM. A lovely combination. The only downside for me with the ZX2 was its limited headphone choice - it needs a fairly sensitive pair for best results.

This thread, started by Bert, piqued my interest in the 1Z version particularly Gregg's comments regarding the 1Z / Utopia combo. After a lot of thought a 1Z was purchased...

The 1Z proved a bit of an eye (ear ?) opener. Beautifully made and surprisingly heavy it just sounds sublime. It digs out so much detail from familiar material yet presents it in such a fluid, musical way that it just keeps me listening for way too long.

Headphones next. The 846's are great for work due to an open plan office environment but i wanted something different for home and with more power (and the balanced output available too) the choice was opened up. On the list were AKG 812, Focal Clear and Sony Z1R phones. The AKG's were dismissed first - very clean and detailed, i just found them too analytical. The Focal Clear - now this was rather nice. The detail of the AKG but much more enjoyable and engaging - to me they were just more fun to listen to. The AKG's made me focus on small details, whereby the Focals just made music and very comfortable too. Next up were the Sony MDR-Z1R phones which i found as enjoyable to listen to as the Clear but with a smidgen more bass depth. I'd have happily taken either the Clear or the Z1R. Both are beautifully built and are comfy to wear but the Sony edged it with it's semi open design. It just provides much less sound leakage. The Z1R were purchased...

Two months down the line and the Z1R still continue to delight. They are nicely engineered, solidly built and i rather like the no nonsense design. They are superbly comfortable, the soft ear pads allowing me to wear glasses whilst listening with no loss of comfort and i can wear them for hours at a time - very handy as this combination is rather addictive. For what is basically a closed phone with its low sound leakage properties, they have the expansive, out of head sound of an open back design. They sound very natural but deliver the music with toe tapping enjoyment. Moving over to balanced operation with the 1Z takes things up another notch. Focal Utopia phones are still to be auditioned as i did rather like the Clear but with the caveat that the open design may be a non starter, however good they are. I'm in no rush though...

So to the final part of the story. The Kimber Axios cables mentioned in this thread seemed worth a try. A certain Kendal based accessory shop  was offering a 10% discount so with the usual 60 day trial period it was worth a punt. They took 5 weeks to be manufactured and delivered from the USA and turned up at the end of last week. Now i don't get too excited about cables and i have to admit that spending £700 on a headphone cable is a bit excessive but this seemed like it could be the icing on an already rather nice cake...

The Axios cable is beautifully made - high quality connectors and the braiding is jewel like, the transition from single cable to dual is very neatly done. I specified mine with the 4.4mm Pentacon connector for balanced operation. Sound quality wise, these seem to still be running in (and i know this sounds a bit daft) as initially, they sounded 'tight' and rather constrained, missing the low bass extension that the Z1R and standard Sony cables have. Over the last week they have started to loosen up, the bass extension is back. They do sound beautifully open, extending the soundstage (which these phones do very well) even further and revealing even more details from a deep black background. Putting the standard Sony cable back in place, brought a richer, warmer presentation, the Axios a bit cooler in comparison but with more detail and bite. I'd certainly be happy with the standard cable but the Axios is starting to show what it can do. One disadvantage with the Axios (apart from price) is that it's very microphonic, easily transmitting mechanical noise from the cable to the headphones. Only really a downside if you do a lot of moving around but something to bear in mind. The Sony cable in comparison is mechanically silent. 

So that's it for now. It's been a very interesting couple of months and i've ended up with a headphone system that i'm getting a great deal of pleasure from. It's been a fun, if rather expensive journey but the end result is quite superb. 

james n posted:

A quick update on this little journey. 

I'd been using a Sony NW-ZX2 since 2015 as my work system along with a set of Shure SE846 IEM. A lovely combination. The only downside for me with the ZX2 was its limited headphone choice - it needs a fairly sensitive pair for best results.

This thread, started by Bert, piqued my interest in the 1Z version particularly Gregg's comments regarding the 1Z / Utopia combo. After a lot of thought a 1Z was purchased...

The 1Z proved a bit of an eye (ear ?) opener. Beautifully made and surprisingly heavy it just sounds sublime. It digs out so much detail from familiar material yet presents it in such a fluid, musical way that it just keeps me listening for way too long.

Headphones next. The 846's are great for work due to an open plan office environment but i wanted something different for home and with more power (and the balanced output available too) the choice was opened up. On the list were AKG 812, Focal Clear and Sony Z1R phones. The AKG's were dismissed first - very clean and detailed, i just found them too analytical. The Focal Clear - now this was rather nice. The detail of the AKG but much more enjoyable and engaging - to me they were just more fun to listen to. The AKG's made me focus on small details, whereby the Focals just made music and very comfortable too. Next up were the Sony MDR-Z1R phones which i found as enjoyable to listen to as the Clear but with a smidgen more bass depth. I'd have happily taken either the Clear or the Z1R. Both are beautifully built and are comfy to wear but the Sony edged it with it's semi open design. It just provides much less sound leakage. The Z1R were purchased...

Two months down the line and the Z1R still continue to delight. They are nicely engineered, solidly built and i rather like the no nonsense design. They are superbly comfortable, the soft ear pads allowing me to wear glasses whilst listening with no loss of comfort and i can wear them for hours at a time - very handy as this combination is rather addictive. For what is basically a closed phone with its low sound leakage properties, they have the expansive, out of head sound of an open back design. They sound very natural but deliver the music with toe tapping enjoyment. Moving over to balanced operation with the 1Z takes things up another notch. Focal Utopia phones are still to be auditioned as i did rather like the Clear but with the caveat that the open design may be a non starter, however good they are. I'm in no rush though...

So to the final part of the story. The Kimber Axios cables mentioned in this thread seemed worth a try. A certain Kendal based accessory shop  was offering a 10% discount so with the usual 60 day trial period it was worth a punt. They took 5 weeks to be manufactured and delivered from the USA and turned up at the end of last week. Now i don't get too excited about cables and i have to admit that spending £700 on a headphone cable is a bit excessive but this seemed like it could be the icing on an already rather nice cake...

The Axios cable is beautifully made - high quality connectors and the braiding is jewel like, the transition from single cable to dual is very neatly done. I specified mine with the 4.4mm Pentacon connector for balanced operation. Sound quality wise, these seem to still be running in (and i know this sounds a bit daft) as initially, they sounded 'tight' and rather constrained, missing the low bass extension that the Z1R and standard Sony cables have. Over the last week they have started to loosen up, the bass extension is back. They do sound beautifully open, extending the soundstage (which these phones do very well) even further and revealing even more details from a deep black background. Putting the standard Sony cable back in place, brought a richer, warmer presentation, the Axios a bit cooler in comparison but with more detail and bite. I'd certainly be happy with the standard cable but the Axios is starting to show what it can do. One disadvantage with the Axios (apart from price) is that it's very microphonic, easily transmitting mechanical noise from the cable to the headphones. Only really a downside if you do a lot of moving around but something to bear in mind. The Sony cable in comparison is mechanically silent. 

So that's it for now. It's been a very interesting couple of months and i've ended up with a headphone system that i'm getting a great deal of pleasure from. It's been a fun, if rather expensive journey but the end result is quite superb. 

James, thanks for a fantastically detailed write up. Still asking myself why you ended up with the Sony's as they are a bit bass heavy which I heard before, while other more neutral options might be available ? And a second question is - as far as I understood the clear would come standard with a balanced cable which fits the Sony, is that a correct assumption.

I personally have paused for a while and I am still with the Shure SE846. They sound wonderful still, while a bit sensitive to quality of sound with the sealing in the ear. When right sometimes mesmerizing, but sometimes also a bit a challenge to get a good seal. 

I would consider now a couple of options, but have for different reasons not been able to follow up with it:

1. The Focal Clears are definitely on my list. I also would love to use the Utopias...., but I have a bit the feeling that's a bridge to far for my open office listening experience. Still a bit of a concern would be the leakage.

2. I want to audition the Senheiser HD820 (closed), but so far the dealer (not my Naim dealer) who runs the brand hasn't come back to me with an option to listen to this specific headphone.

3. I also consider the Noble Kaiser in ears as they are presumed to be better than the Shures. Difficult to find out where I could audition them in a serious way, and still the question will they seal

4. I also consider the Shure KSE1200 as option with of course the already mentioned challenge on 100% sealing.

Interested to also hear further impressions of others and further insight of James.

I also have se846’s which, whilst sometimes sounding great, I generally have a problem getting the bass to sound anything like sufficient to balance properly with the mids and highs.  I may need to experiment further with buds/ tips as I also suspect my inability to achieve a proper seal is largely to blame for the bass issue.

i had hoped that upgrading my Sony portable to the 1z would have provided more grunt for the 846’s but in hindsight that doesn’t seem to be the issue.

i have a pair of audiofly af180’s which are significantly less expensive than the 846’s, and whilst they don’t have quite the clarity of treble, for my ears they have a much better balanced spectrum of sound which makes for much greater listening pleasure for much longer time periods.

a bit more research required on my part!

Peter

northpole posted:

I also have se846’s which, whilst sometimes sounding great, I generally have a problem getting the bass to sound anything like sufficient to balance properly with the mids and highs.  I may need to experiment further with buds/ tips as I also suspect my inability to achieve a proper seal is largely to blame for the bass issue.

i had hoped that upgrading my Sony portable to the 1z would have provided more grunt for the 846’s but in hindsight that doesn’t seem to be the issue.

i have a pair of audiofly af180’s which are significantly less expensive than the 846’s, and whilst they don’t have quite the clarity of treble, for my ears they have a much better balanced spectrum of sound which makes for much greater listening pleasure for much longer time periods.

a bit more research required on my part!

Peter

I also mentioned the seal, but for the 846 with the right ends it’s mostly good, but not always. The bass becomes then amazing...

northpole posted:

I also have se846’s which, whilst sometimes sounding great, I generally have a problem getting the bass to sound anything like sufficient to balance properly with the mids and highs.  I may need to experiment further with buds/ tips as I also suspect my inability to achieve a proper seal is largely to blame for the bass issue.

i had hoped that upgrading my Sony portable to the 1z would have provided more grunt for the 846’s but in hindsight that doesn’t seem to be the issue.

i have a pair of audiofly af180’s which are significantly less expensive than the 846’s, and whilst they don’t have quite the clarity of treble, for my ears they have a much better balanced spectrum of sound which makes for much greater listening pleasure for much longer time periods.

a bit more research required on my part!

Peter

I would say that the 846 strong point is their deep bass performance, so if you’re not hearing it, something is wrong - very likely, as you say, getting a good seal. As a test, I find that if they aren’t sounding right, cupping your hands over your ears gives you some idea of what you’re missing. 

Shure EABKF1-10L Foam Sleeves, or Comply TX-100 Isolation Plus tips, both available from Amazon. Never any problem achieving perfect seal using either. The Shure tips are proving to be longer lasting. It pays to roll them carefully, then keep  them pressed into the ear for at 30 seconds to allow the foam to expand. Have just started to use a 2.5mm balanced cable, which sounds fantastic compared to the Shure 3.5.

Thanks very much Timmo1341 for the tips tip, so to speak!  I will check this out - long overdue.  Do you mind me asking which replacement cable you are using and whether off the shelf or do you have to configure?  Thanks.

Peter

Bert - i still love my 846s - great IEMs. I concur about the sealing and use the black silicon tips myself. Best sealing is with the memory foam tips ( i used to use these on my Etymotics) but they need to be replaced frequently. As soon as i've rolled them up and placed them in my ears someone would come to my desk. Have you considered custom moulded tips for best sealing ?

Regarding the Clear. They do come with a selection of cables including 3.5mm and 6.35mm. The balanced cable is terminated in a 4 pin XLR so it would need an adapter or custom cable to use the 4.4mm socket on the 1Z. The closed back Sen 820 looks rather interesting and of course the new Focal Elegia should be worth an audition too. Regarding the Z1R phones, i don't find them bass heavy. They go deep and low but it's good tight bass (and even better with the Axios in tow). Bass heavy phones don't appeal to me (same with speakers) and the Z!R has the right blend of speed and depth of bass for me. 

Timmo, like Peter, i'm also interested in what balanced cable you are using with your 846s. I've gone back to the standard Shure cable at the moment as after 3 years, my Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable has got an intermittent connection on the right hand MMCX connector. I can't be bothered to send it back to the US for repair so i'll fix it myself and swap out the 3.5mm TRRS connector i had specced for my ZX2 to the 4.4m version to use the balanced output on my 1Z.

James 

The cable I’m using is a Yinyoo balanced 2.5mm 8 core silver plated bought from Amazon for £50. I looked at Silver Dragon, but there were too many reports of poor quality connections developing for my liking, particularly at their not inconsiderable price. I then ordered a cable from Toxic Cables last May, to be told there was at least a 3 month lead time. I then discovered in October that the owner had died in August! Fortunately I was able to get a refund via PayPal. The Amazon purchase was a pure gamble, but ai have to say Im really impressed with the sound - well worth a punt.

Going back to the subject of tips for SE846, I notice most people mention a preference for the black spongy ones, either Shure’s own, or Comply. I’ve tried both of these, in different sizes, and just can’t get them to sound right. The soft grey rubber tips Shure supply with the 846 are way better for me. All the others I’ve tried sound worse, and the difference is huge. Maybe my ears are an odd shape?!

ChrisSU posted:

Going back to the subject of tips for SE846, I notice most people mention a preference for the black spongy ones, either Shure’s own, or Comply. I’ve tried both of these, in different sizes, and just can’t get them to sound right. The soft grey rubber tips Shure supply with the 846 are way better for me. All the others I’ve tried sound worse, and the difference is huge. Maybe my ears are an odd shape?!

I also use the rubber tips, and most of the times I have a satisfying sound and seal, sometimes I am struggling. The other ones can seal better but I hate to constantly have to fold them and push them in again and hope the don’t unfold before you properly stuck them in...

ChrisSU posted:

Going back to the subject of tips for SE846, I notice most people mention a preference for the black spongy ones, either Shure’s own, or Comply. I’ve tried both of these, in different sizes, and just can’t get them to sound right. The soft grey rubber tips Shure supply with the 846 are way better for me. All the others I’ve tried sound worse, and the difference is huge. Maybe my ears are an odd shape?!

Yep - i'd agree. The Grey tips work best for me too. My previous Etymotics always sounded best with the spongy foam tips but these don't sound right with the 846s. 

Do you happen to have a reference name/ number for the grey rubber tips?  I have ordered Shure's black ones in different sizes and it would be good to try out other recommendations whilst I am in this frame of mind - it won't last long!

Peter