ND555 Roadshows

David Hendon posted:

The price of used NDS will likely fall fast once ND555 and NDX2 are available in numbers in your market. Don't forget that Naim think NDX2 sounds better than NDS, so the price of a new NDX2 (£5000 inc tax in UK) will probably establish the NDS used price ceiling as somewhat below that.

best

David

I'm not sure that anyone in Naim have said that NDX2 will sound better than NDS.

From what I recall it was reported that the NDS was discontinued because it was not sufficiently better than NDX2 to warrant the price difference, but that implied to me that NDS would still be slightly better than NDX2

This is how rumours spread ;-)

mattl posted:

David Hendon posted:

The price of used NDS will likely fall fast once ND555 and NDX2 are available in numbers in your market. Don't forget that Naim think NDX2 sounds better than NDS, so the price of a new NDX2 (£5000 inc tax in UK) will probably establish the NDS used price ceiling as somewhat below that.

best

David

I'm not sure that anyone in Naim have said that NDX2 will sound better than NDS.

From what I recall it was reported that the NDS was discontinued because it was not sufficiently better than NDX2 to warrant the price difference, but that implied to me that NDS would still be slightly better than NDX2

You won't find it in Naim's press releases I'm sure. But I think it is clear from what people have reported from the roadshows that Naim thinks the ND555 is a way ahead of NDS and they have also explained the absence of an NDS2 by saying that there isn't room for another streamer at a performance point between the NDX2 and ND555. 

Yiu can make of that what you will, but nevertheless I would expect NDS to settle at about £3500 or a bit lower for a good recent model once you can go into a Naim dealer and get a new NDX2 for £5000 less a bit of discreet discount or whatever.

Best

David

Well not too long to see if David is correct????

mattl posted:

David Hendon posted:

The price of used NDS will likely fall fast once ND555 and NDX2 are available in numbers in your market. Don't forget that Naim think NDX2 sounds better than NDS, so the price of a new NDX2 (£5000 inc tax in UK) will probably establish the NDS used price ceiling as somewhat below that.

best

David

From what I recall it was reported that the NDS was discontinued because it was not sufficiently better than NDX2 to warrant the price difference, but that implied to me that NDS would still be slightly better than NDX2

This is how is has been explained to me. If Naim are now stating that the NDX2 is better than the NDS, I haven't heard that said yet, and it will be one hell of a bargain. We should probably all buy two.

History repeats. The CDS was the first CDP model line to be killed off. 

David Hendon posted:

mattl posted:

David Hendon posted:

The price of used NDS will likely fall fast once ND555 and NDX2 are available in numbers in your market. Don't forget that Naim think NDX2 sounds better than NDS, so the price of a new NDX2 (£5000 inc tax in UK) will probably establish the NDS used price ceiling as somewhat below that.

best

David

I'm not sure that anyone in Naim have said that NDX2 will sound better than NDS.

From what I recall it was reported that the NDS was discontinued because it was not sufficiently better than NDX2 to warrant the price difference, but that implied to me that NDS would still be slightly better than NDX2

You won't find it in Naim's press releases I'm sure. But I think it is clear from what people have reported from the roadshows that Naim thinks the ND555 is a way ahead of NDS and they have also explained the absence of an NDS2 by saying that there isn't room for another streamer at a performance point between the NDX2 and ND555. 

Yiu can make of that what you will, but nevertheless I would expect NDS to settle at about £3500 or a bit lower for a good recent model once you can go into a Naim dealer and get a new NDX2 for £5000 less a bit of discreet discount or whatever.

Best

David

some years ago naim discontinued the cds3 and produced still the cdx2 and cd555.  But not for the reasons that cdx2 was near the cds3 sound.  Perhaps it is also the case now, with nd555 and ndx2, leaving the nds for marketing reasons.

I belief this NDS topic is just a marketing decision. I have so far not heard anybody reporting on a reliable A/B test between the new NDX2 and the NDS as such, so it's difficult to judge the statement it's better when referring to the NDX2. But it's clear that with the significance of the upgrade of the NDX and the creation of the ND555, the NDS is marketing wise difficult to position. People would expect at some time a NDS2. And in order to be a relevant offer it would need to be almost as good as the ND555 which it then would canabilize..... I am just happy that I bought the ND555 and will have the ultimate performance within the Naim context.

As there are no upgrade options for the older versions, The resell value of the NDX old and the NDS might become an issue going forward.

David Hendon posted:

The price of used NDS will likely fall fast once ND555 and NDX2 are available in numbers in your market. Don't forget that Naim think NDX2 sounds better than NDS, so the price of a new NDX2 (£5000 inc tax in UK) will probably establish the NDS used price ceiling as somewhat below that.

best

David

I heard that Naim admitted that the NDx2 does not sound better than a NDS. I read that . My dealer also told me that getting info from importer .  Where did you hear it would sound better ? 

The CDS3 was discontinued, according to Paul,  because "we aren't selling any". IIRC they sold one player in 8 months in the year it was killed off. 

David Hendon posted:

 

Don't forget that Naim think NDX2 sounds better than NDS

 

If you ever think that these things solely happen on a performance basis that would speak loads on people self- conviction.

In that case I would stand clear of forums and make my own mind not on what's been selling but I'm buying.

I very much doubt that there will be any official comment from Naim on how the NDX2 compares to the NDS. They will not want to risk the relationship they have with loyal NDS owners who have spent thousands of their hard earned cash on a fantastic product. I am sure they will leave it to the Hifi press to pass their judgement over the coming weeks. If the NDX2 is close to the NDS then Naim can be justifiably proud of what they have achieved. 

The other thing to remember is that the NDS technology is several years old now and technology and cost moves on. You only have to look at the performance of the latest 4k OLED TVs against a 2011 set to see how things progress. 

Better is a subjective matter as we all know too well when testing hifi. Although the NDX2 will undoubtedly share many Naim traits, it will be different to the NDS and it may be down to personal preference.

Crispy posted:

I very much doubt that there will be any official comment from Naim on how the NDX2 compares to the NDS. They will not want to risk the relationship they have with loyal NDS owners who have spent thousands of their hard earned cash on a fantastic product. I am sure they will leave it to the Hifi press to pass their judgement over the coming weeks. If the NDX2 is close to the NDS then Naim can be justifiably proud of what they have achieved. 

The other thing to remember is that the NDS technology is several years old now and technology and cost moves on. You only have to look at the performance of the latest 4k OLED TVs against a 2011 set to see how things progress. 

Better is a subjective matter as we all know too well when testing hifi. Although the NDX2 will undoubtedly share many Naim traits, it will be different to the NDS and it may be down to personal preference.

The NDX2 has a power supply in it, NDS does not . NDS has brass Sub chassis with springs and a faraday Cage .  Does the NDX2 have that ? 

The Linn Klimax DS3 has an on board power supply and is rated by What Hifi as ‘the finest sounding music streamer on the market’. There is more than one way to skin a cat and, as I stated, technology moves on. They obviously haven’t heard the ND555 yet but that is a back to back test I would be interested in. 

musicfan51 posted:

Crispy posted:

I very much doubt that there will be any official comment from Naim on how the NDX2 compares to the NDS. They will not want to risk the relationship they have with loyal NDS owners who have spent thousands of their hard earned cash on a fantastic product. I am sure they will leave it to the Hifi press to pass their judgement over the coming weeks. If the NDX2 is close to the NDS then Naim can be justifiably proud of what they have achieved. 

The other thing to remember is that the NDS technology is several years old now and technology and cost moves on. You only have to look at the performance of the latest 4k OLED TVs against a 2011 set to see how things progress. 

Better is a subjective matter as we all know too well when testing hifi. Although the NDX2 will undoubtedly share many Naim traits, it will be different to the NDS and it may be down to personal preference.

The NDX2 has a power supply in it, NDS does not . NDS has brass Sub chassis with springs and a faraday Cage .  Does the NDX2 have that ? 

The NDX2 also has a more advanced streaming board than the NDS which is a big part of the uplift in the performance of the new range. 

Best thing to do is not to listen to forum or dealer hype (they want to sell you shiny new things) and listen for yourself. 

If you listen to the Nova with all its compromises, you can see that it could be achievable for the NDX2 to be in the same ball park as the NDS or perhaps better. As has been said before by Naim they always bring an improvement as they hear it.

Quite - the Nova is a bit of a star and comes a lot closer to the hallowed 272/250 combo than most want to admit. Naim have done a fantastic bit of work here.

Amazing ND555 aside, the whole new range is a real step up. Super job. 

james n posted:

musicfan51 posted:

Crispy posted:

I very much doubt that there will be any official comment from Naim on how the NDX2 compares to the NDS. They will not want to risk the relationship they have with loyal NDS owners who have spent thousands of their hard earned cash on a fantastic product. I am sure they will leave it to the Hifi press to pass their judgement over the coming weeks. If the NDX2 is close to the NDS then Naim can be justifiably proud of what they have achieved. 

The other thing to remember is that the NDS technology is several years old now and technology and cost moves on. You only have to look at the performance of the latest 4k OLED TVs against a 2011 set to see how things progress. 

Better is a subjective matter as we all know too well when testing hifi. Although the NDX2 will undoubtedly share many Naim traits, it will be different to the NDS and it may be down to personal preference.

The NDX2 has a power supply in it, NDS does not . NDS has brass Sub chassis with springs and a faraday Cage .  Does the NDX2 have that ? 

The NDX2 also has a more advanced streaming board than the NDS which is a big part of the uplift in the performance of the new range. 

Best thing to do is not to listen to forum or dealer hype (they want to sell you shiny new things) and listen for yourself. 

I was told ndx2 was not better than NDS but who the heck knows !  No public comparisons have been done ! 

james n posted:

Quite - the Nova is a bit of a star and comes a lot closer to the hallowed 272/250 combo than most want to admit. Naim have done a fantastic bit of work here.

Amazing ND555 aside, the whole new range is a real step up. Super job. 

Indeed, I’ve just landed a Nova and I’d say it will be an end game for me. I don’t see incremental improvements needed from here. Now just need to decide about upgrading the Totem Hawks to Forest Signatures - which were supreme when tested last week.

musicfan51 posted:

I was told ndx2 was not better than NDS but who the heck knows !  No public comparisons have been done ! 

Yep - The NDS remains a formidable player. Excellent digital and analogue engineering and a lot of care taken with mechanical and electrical isolation. It won't sound 'broken' when the new players arrive. I suspect that the NDX2 with 555PS will come close to what the NDS can do but that's what progress brings. The ND555 takes all the best engineering practices from the NDS and just makes them that bit better - there's some real neat thinking there and the result is an amazing machine. At the bottom of the range, the ND5XS2 discards superfluous items (display, power supply upgrades) which takes it nicely above the old ND5XS and (IMHO) makes it a bit of a bargain. Combined with an Nait XS2 i think it would make a lovely 2 box system that you'd need to spend quite a lot more to beat in the long term musical satisfaction stakes. 

You Naim chaps have a lot to look forward to 

james n posted:

Quite - the Nova is a bit of a star and comes a lot closer to the hallowed 272/250 combo than most want to admit. Naim have done a fantastic bit of work here.

Amazing ND555 aside, the whole new range is a real step up. Super job. 

Great that people dare to speak up in this respect ... well done!

james n posted:

Quite - the Nova is a bit of a star

well that has me totally confused, so the NDX2 is as good as an NDS and a Nova as good as the star?

.sjb

Sloop John B posted:

james n posted:

Quite - the Nova is a bit of a star

well that has me totally confused, so the NDX2 is as good as an NDS and a Nova as good as the star?

.sjb

I might have to call Naim about this NDX2 vs NDS comparison. Even though could cost a bit to call from USA. Quite a bit of conjecture without real facts ! Like to hear from them on this subject . 

Crispy posted:

The Linn Klimax DS3 has an on board power supply and is rated by What Hifi as ‘the finest sounding music streamer on the market’. There is more than one way to skin a cat and, as I stated, technology moves on. They obviously haven’t heard the ND555 yet but that is a back to back test I would be interested in. 

What Hifi seems to prefer now the dcs rossini with u-clock, over nds and linn ds3.  But their preferred dac is the nagra hd dac, over the dave they consider very good for its price.  

Klout10 posted:

This is how rumours spread ;-)

Sure Is!