ND555 Roadshows

French Rooster posted:

Clive B posted:

French Rooster posted:

“ ndx2 reportedly even sounding better than nds”:  i hope it is only advertising and not true.  I don’t want to be tempted to sell my nds....

Even if it does sound better, your NDS will not sound broken. Nothing has changed in terms of the satisfaction and enjoyment you get from your NDS. 

You are right, but if i sell the nds, i will be able to buy an ndx2 for around the same price.  So if the ndx2 is better, why not upgrade without loosing money?  It would be a temptation.

For now, i will be very surprised if the ndx2 is better.  We will see.

If the NDX2 is better than the NDS, the value of the NDS will fall to below the cost of the NDX2. Who would pay more for something worse? I believe what Naim have said is that the NDX2 is sufficiently close to an NDS to make an NDS2 unviable. The question is how close is close. 

Well, it does not change the fact that ND555 architecture & technical implementation is much more close to NDS than NDX2. See white papers. Nothing to do with sound but some basic design principles makes a big difference?

so i hope the nds will still be better.....

nigelb posted:

Gazza posted:

Alba1320 posted:

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but just in case it hasn't, it seems that NDX2 will be making an appearance at a forthcoming Roadshow event (early July):

"NDX 2 Also Here
We have also just found out that Naim will be bringing along the new NDX 2 which is reportedly sounding even better than the NDS..."

It is going to be on dem, apparently.

What a conundrum for NigelB, NDX2 or ND555 to replace his beloved NDS????

It will be interesting to see if the NDX2 can match, or even beat the NDS. I suspect some of the difference between the two will be system, room and speaker dependent with some swings and roundabouts involved. I doubt it will be clear cut. A NDX vs NDX2 bake off might tell us a bit more about how the NDX2 has moved things on.

Anyway, if I have money to spend on HiFi (which is a big if) it will most likely be speakers next as I already own a pretty decent streamer.

Hope the speaker auditions go well, speakers are really Marmite for me. I heard the NDS vs ND555.....getting past the jokes you have a great streamer. Yes, the ND555 is better, but the law of diminishing returns, does kick in. The big push from Naim was its the source that matters........just listen my friend for yourself.

Much of the success earnt so far from the ND555 comes form the legacy left by the discontinued NDS, whose architecture is very likely to have determined its goodness. 

Naim's success has always proved to be more about evolution than revolution thus, my educated guess, though obviously I may be wrong, is that NDX2 other than software implementation duties won't replace any NDS. 

It's just NDS series is by far doomed to an end and that pinnacle served to elaborate the new big thing, i.e a more refined and updated version.

Same will happen with the stripped down ND5XS2 (to replace a cd5i or xs player Naim doesn't believe to anymore ), it's not a case it will appeal to entry level and xs perspective buyers.

And finally NDX2  , priced accordingly to tempt those aiming to  cdx2  ,ndx level.

Great commercial appeal, another strong point Naim has been successful so far.

Clive B posted:

French Rooster posted:

“ ndx2 reportedly even sounding better than nds”:  i hope it is only advertising and not true.  I don’t want to be tempted to sell my nds....

Even if it does sound better, your NDS will not sound broken. Nothing has changed in terms of the satisfaction and enjoyment you get from your NDS. 

Aye, there’s the rub, an iPhone XI won’t make the iPhone X broken but there will still be queuing to get it. 

Sometimes knowing there is better accentuates limitations one was prepared to accept when there was no choice. 

.sjb

French Rooster posted:

so i hope the nds will still be better.....

no we dont.....

Nope we don,t

Emre posted:

French Rooster posted:

so i hope the nds will still be better.....

no we dont.....

why you don’t hope Emre?   i mean that i hope it sounds better vs ndx2, not of course nd555.

Sloop John B posted:. 

Aye, there’s the rub, an iPhone XI won’t make the iPhone X broken but there will still be queuing to get it. 

Or not as the case may be... I understand that consumers are less likely to change smart phone handsets for newer models know compared to earlier years... I don’t whether it’s because of the cost, or perhaps due to the fact the newer handsets don’t really bring much real benefit in terms of usable performance once all the marketing gloss and spin has faded.. I know this has upset certain phone resale business models 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Sloop John B posted:. 

Aye, there’s the rub, an iPhone XI won’t make the iPhone X broken but there will still be queuing to get it. 

Or not as the case may be... I understand that consumers are less likely to change smart phone handsets for newer models know compared to earlier years... I don’t whether it’s because of the cost, or perhaps due to the fact the newer handsets don’t really bring much real benefit in terms of usable performance once all the marketing gloss and spin has faded.. I know this has upset certain phone resale business models 

Simon,...or could it be because some new models of smartphones do not have 3.5 mm headphone jacks.?
Young people use very much Inears and Onears with cord,if they should change the phone,they must of course change the earphones too.

I myself use a USB-dac (Audioquest Dragonfly Red) to the phone when I travel,so I'm not dependent on the 3.5 mm headphone jack.

Have no idea,.... just one thought.

/Peder ????

Peder posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Sloop John B posted:. 

Aye, there’s the rub, an iPhone XI won’t make the iPhone X broken but there will still be queuing to get it. 

Or not as the case may be... I understand that consumers are less likely to change smart phone handsets for newer models know compared to earlier years... I don’t whether it’s because of the cost, or perhaps due to the fact the newer handsets don’t really bring much real benefit in terms of usable performance once all the marketing gloss and spin has faded.. I know this has upset certain phone resale business models 

Simon,...or could it be because some new models of smartphones do not have 3.5 mm headphone jacks.?
Young people use very much Inears and Onears with cord,if they should change the phone,they must of course change the earphones too.

I myself use a USB-dac (Audioquest Dragonfly Red) to the phone when I travel,so I'm not dependent on the 3.5 mm headphone jack.

Have no idea,.... just one thought.

/Peder ????

I’d say it was more to do with having to spend £1000 every year for the latest top of the range smartphone. 

ChrisSU posted:

Peder posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Sloop John B posted:. 

Aye, there’s the rub, an iPhone XI won’t make the iPhone X broken but there will still be queuing to get it. 

Or not as the case may be... I understand that consumers are less likely to change smart phone handsets for newer models know compared to earlier years... I don’t whether it’s because of the cost, or perhaps due to the fact the newer handsets don’t really bring much real benefit in terms of usable performance once all the marketing gloss and spin has faded.. I know this has upset certain phone resale business models 

Simon,...or could it be because some new models of smartphones do not have 3.5 mm headphone jacks.?
Young people use very much Inears and Onears with cord,if they should change the phone,they must of course change the earphones too.

I myself use a USB-dac (Audioquest Dragonfly Red) to the phone when I travel,so I'm not dependent on the 3.5 mm headphone jack.

Have no idea,.... just one thought.

/Peder ????

I’d say it was more to do with having to spend £1000 every year for the latest top of the range smartphone. 

???? Chrissu,....Of course,it is also part of the whole thing.

Steve Jobs had a collaboration with Neil Young regarding audio quality in phones,when the iphone 4,or if it was the iphone 4s was developed.
That phone has incredibly good sound quality, a friend still has it in a box,and usually bring it out and let us listen when we are there.

Now I changed the topic,but a fun story..... Steve Jobs was indeed an innovator in many areas.

/Peder ????

French Rooster posted:

Emre posted:

French Rooster posted:

so i hope the nds will still be better.....

no we dont.....

why you don’t hope Emre?   i mean that i hope it sounds better vs ndx2, not of course nd555.

İt will be very nice if NDX2 will be quite good so i dont have to spend too much money on a ND555, second hand NDS is not an option for me...

İ will like Tidal and i think there is a problem with it on the old generation streamers, they work according to their mood, i have good cables, fast connection Everything.....somedays it was perfect somedays not usable

5000£ starts to sound reasonable when you see the 13000£ 

i am hoping to buy a cd555 soon as well so streaming will not bey the main source...

if you guys start to talk about it all the time İ might still get crazy and buy  nd555 while the dealer toping my wine tell my wife that it is the ndx2...

Definitely ND555 then , NDX2 is said to be served with cheaper beer.

They run out of proper pints that's why they discontinued the NDS. 

Antonio1 posted:

Definitely ND555 then , NDX2 is said to be served with cheaper beer.

They run out of proper pints that's why they discontinued the NDS. 

naim kept before the cdx2 and cd555 on their catalogue, and discontinued the cds3. But the cds3 was better vs the cdx2, for a majority of views.  Perhaps it will be the same now with ndx2 and nd555, and discontinued nds.

The future ndx2 roadshows will tell us.

If i had not the nds, i would also preferred the ndx2 to be better than nds.

The CDS3 was discontinued because (according to Paul, in conversation at a Naim dealer event) they sold one unit in eight months. Which is to say, nobody was buying them anymore. It looks like the NDS has gone because it's performance is encroached on by the newer X level streamer. Although I suppose it's possible they haven't sold any this year. Unlikely, but who knows?

İ still believe that cd555 is the source 

Harry posted:

The CDS3 was discontinued because (according to Paul, in conversation at a Naim dealer event) they sold one unit in eight months. Which is to say, nobody was buying them anymore. It looks like the NDS has gone because it's performance is encroached on by the newer X level streamer. Although I suppose it's possible they haven't sold any this year. Unlikely, but who knows?

i just wanted to say that the cds3 was better than cdx2, but discontinued for probably marketing aspects.  It is probably the same today for nds and ndx2.  Nobody can really prove for now that the ndx2 performance is very close or better than nds.    As you said, who really knows.

Perhaps, like with cds3 vs cd555, there will also be some that will prefer nds vs nd555 presentation, like some were preferring cds3 vs cd555.

I preferred the presentation of the CDS3 to the CD555, although in absolute terms the CDS3 was a long way behind on technical ability. I'm hoping the ND555 doesn't go the same way. 

Or maybe I should hope? Could save  me a lot of money!

The NDX2 v NDS is an interesting prospect.

I was at the factory a few weeks ago and was discussing my next move with Steve Sells (lead designer of the new streamers).

As I currently use an NDX bare I asked his opinion of how he felt the current NDX with XPS2dr would compare with a bare NDX2 as the cost to do either in my position would be similar. He couldn’t answer the question and felt it would be an interesting comparison.

I was rather expecting something more definite but it seemed from his response that a bare NDX2 would not necessarily be a no brainer upgrade over an NDX/XPS2. I was rather hoping it would be as an upgrade to the new platform in a single box with performance at a level beyond a 2 box legacy NDX would be very attractive to me.

Given the above insight one could conclude that the NDS will still easily outperform the NDX2 as it does today against the NDX. What isn’t clear yet is how well the NDX2 responds to power supply upgrades and with a 555 ps in place will it take it close to NDS performance?

I was also at the factory, and he and others were obviously keeping their powder dry. It’s up to the dealers to demonstrate the absolute differences to the customer. Having now heard the ND555 vs NDS, I think the NDX2 is in the same ball park and a serious demo.

Yes, comparing the NDX2 to the NDS is only part of the conundrum and the part power supplies play cannot be underestimated.

I used a bare NDX for several years and eventually added a foreign power supply with limited success, probably down to me penny-pinching on the PS. Some say that the PS555 (DR or not) on the NDX is too much and the sound can get overblown, with the XPSDR being the NDX’s ideal match. I could not comment as I never used my NDX with a Naim PS. It does however beg the question......how will the NDX2 respond to the XPSDR vs the PS555DR powering it?

One thing I can attest to is that the NDS responds wonderfully with a PS555DR driving it, probably the no-brainier PS for the NDS. The ND555 can only be used with the PS555DR, so the comparioson between the old and new top streamers is a level playing field when it come to the PSs powering them.

But how well will the NDX2 respond to a PS555DR powering it? Will it be preferable used with a XPSDR, in the same way some say the NDX is?

If my suggested scenario pans out, it would be an unfair and irrelevant comparison between the NDX2/XPSDR and the NDS/PS555DR, or will it? Certainly the price of each pairing will be similar if ex-dem or pre-loved power supplies are put into the equation.

Interesting times.

It’s NDX2 with both power supplies vs ND555,thanks for that input  Nigel....I was not thinking about the XPSDR. Or is that cynical conundrum sharing????

Gazza posted:

It’s NDX2 with both power supplies vs ND555,thanks for that input  Nigel....I was not thinking about the XPSDR. Or is that cynical conundrum sharing????

I was following up from Trickydickie's and French Rooster's posts where they were speculating about NDX2 vs NDS, although I realise the thread is primarily about the ND555.