Early days but upgrade from Atom

I think you have answered your own question! A 250DR probably deserves a better source and preamp, but beyond that, you should spend plenty of time listening and make your own choices - there are no universal rules.

I agree with Chris on that. As to what budget you should have, it depends on what system you need to give you what you seek. You could think about why you are already unhappy with the Atom when you’ve only just bought it. What’s missing? There is an interesting thread running about what is ‘good enough’, and that’s really the question you need to answer. Do you really need to spend £10,000? £20,000? Maybe you do, maybe you don’t. 

Atom/Iota/Kan Stands posted:

 

It is early days yet but I am considering what might come next, having really enjoyed my re-entry into hifi with the Atom. 

 

 

 

You will have to change your name to match your new kit

Yes Mr Halibut, I think you are right - I need to work out 'what good sounds like', to coin a phrase.

With regards to the Atom, I am not unhappy, I absolutely love it, but I always knew it would be a stepping stone - it is great value but has its limitations.  

Of course, what I really need is to listen to as much as I can and the answer will inevitably present itself as these things do.  But seeing what other people choose, their pitfalls and (subjective) successes is nonetheless helpful at the 'getting to know what's what' stage of spending £20k+.  I spent 9 months buying a car on paper/the BMW forum before I ever drove it, and 8 years later I think I chose well - I still love it.

Very wise. If you look in my profile you’ll see what I chose to spend my £20k plus on. I certainly wouldn’t think about an ND5XS2, 202 and 250: source first is usually the best place to start. 

hungryhalibut posted:

Very wise. If you look in my profile you’ll see what I chose to spend my £20k plus on. I certainly wouldn’t think about an ND5XS2, 202 and 250: source first is usually the best place to start. 

Some people are very lucky in life and after a windfall can afford to spend huge sums on hifi whilst others who work extremely hard for a living can only dream of owning an ND5XS/202/200.  Dismissing systems that cost thousands of pounds out of hand because you have been fortunate enough to be able to spend £20k plus on your own system is a bit much really but on the funny side reminds me a bit of that old Harry Enfield character who was always

' considerably richer than yow' ( brummie accent)

HH's comment was applicable to ND5XS2, 202 and 250.

I think he was commenting on the fact the OP's suggestion is a bit of a mullet. A hifi mullet that is, not a rival fish species.

Scuse my ignorance, but what is a mullet in this context?

And I have to agree with HUGE, HH was referring to my suggested over-expenditure on the power amp rather than the pre-amp or streamer. 

Not sure where the idea of a windfall comes from, or indeed fortunate; having dragged myself out of the gutter, I too have worked blooming hard, pretty well constantly since August 1980 and still do - oh woe is me )  

And I do understand the 'source first' argument (I used LP12/Ittok/Asak/Naim 12/110 into AR18LS speakers (about £90) for a couple of years - and it was great), but I have always wanted a 250, though I rather get the sense that a 250 now is not what a 250 was then.  A 250 now looks as though it might be a 500.  I need to stop rambling and go and book some demoes.\

Thx

Atom/Iota/Kan Stands posted:

Scuse my ignorance, but what is a mullet in this context?

This:

In this context, it means a system where the quality goes increasing from the source to the loudspeakers (or hair length from forehead to the neck), which is precisely the opposite of what Naim (and Linn...) strongly recommended some 35 years ago.

Bob the Builder posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Very wise. If you look in my profile you’ll see what I chose to spend my £20k plus on. I certainly wouldn’t think about an ND5XS2, 202 and 250: source first is usually the best place to start. 

Some people are very lucky in life and after a windfall can afford to spend huge sums on hifi whilst others who work extremely hard for a living can only dream of owning an ND5XS/202/200.  Dismissing systems that cost thousands of pounds out of hand because you have been fortunate enough to be able to spend £20k plus on your own system is a bit much really but on the funny side reminds me a bit of that old Harry Enfield character who was always

' considerably richer than yow' ( brummie accent)

If being knocked of your bike and ending up in a coma on life support with multiple skull fractures with lifelong implications is lucky, then I suppose I’ve been lucky. Your comment is extremely insensitive. You have no idea whatsoever where people’s money comes from. I’ve worked hard all my life and would still be working now if a half blind driver hadn’t tried to end it. So perhaps you can lay off the personal attacks.

hungryhalibut posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Very wise. If you look in my profile you’ll see what I chose to spend my £20k plus on. I certainly wouldn’t think about an ND5XS2, 202 and 250: source first is usually the best place to start. 

Some people are very lucky in life and after a windfall can afford to spend huge sums on hifi whilst others who work extremely hard for a living can only dream of owning an ND5XS/202/200.  Dismissing systems that cost thousands of pounds out of hand because you have been fortunate enough to be able to spend £20k plus on your own system is a bit much really but on the funny side reminds me a bit of that old Harry Enfield character who was always

' considerably richer than yow' ( brummie accent)

If being knocked of your bike and ending up in a coma on life support with multiple skull fractures with lifelong implications is lucky, then I suppose I’ve been lucky. Your comment is extremely insensitive. You have no idea whatsoever where people’s money comes from. I’ve worked hard all my life and would still be working now if a half blind driver hadn’t tried to end it. So perhaps you can lay off the personal attacks.

Personally, I feel Hungryhalibut deserves an apology. Your post, Bob, was hugely inappropriate — and you knew this!  Shame on you! Maybe [@mention:1566878603942595] should have a word with you about Forum etiquette. We should treat each other as friends. Friends argue once in a while — fair enough. But at the end of the day, they pull their act together, and have a pint in the pub... You might have your pint on your own tonight... 

Bob, your post seems to indicate that you either got the wrong end of the stick, or you have an axe to grind. Either way, your post was wrong.

After moving house and not having time to read the forum threads for 10 weeks or so, today is my first day back. What's taken me back is that this is the second post that I've read and people are already having a go at each other. It's woeful, pathetic and frankly childish. 

Braggers, gloaters and me, me, me people do exist on here, however, all is not always as it may appear. It's ugly and crass discussing money anywhere, I would agree, however, assumption is the mother of all **** Up's!

That'll probably get me a ticking off from Richard but come on Guy's where's the commonality? 

G

Thanks for the mullet explanation, makes perfect sense.  

Macca’s mullet is spectacular- what a picture - am listening to Wings now in tribute!

for a 250 you will need a Hicap DR power supply.

I would suggest 202/200 works well together, and with an NDX 2 could be a system to live with for a long time.

analogmusic posted:

for a 250 you will need a Hicap DR power supply.

I would suggest 202/200 works well together, and with an NDX 2 could be a system to live with for a long time.

 

Yes, good point on the HC.  I guess it all comes back to listening to various systems and seeing what I feel is 'good enough' and what offers good value for money given my needs and circumstances. 

One of the reasons I bought a 200DR rather than a 250 is that I could keep the box count down by using it to power the preamp. No doubt a Hicap is better, but avoiding mullet territory by going NDX/282/200 works for me. 

Great value to be had in the second hand market. You can nearly sell on at no loss if you buy wisely. 

I would get an pre and power you are happy with with your speakers in your room using the atom as source. Then when you have this look at what source you want. 

(Can I add my voice to say that Bob’s response to HH was what we would classify here as “acting the bollox”).

.sjb

Sloop John B posted:

Great value to be had in the second hand market. You can nearly sell on at no loss if you buy wisely. 

I would get an pre and power you are happy with with your speakers in your room using the atom as source. Then when you have this look at what source you want. 

(Can I add my voice to say that Bob’s response to HH was what we would classify here as “acting the bollox”).

.sjb

That is a cool idea.  Thx.

Sloop John B posted:

Great value to be had in the second hand market. You can nearly sell on at no loss if you buy wisely. 

I would get an pre and power you are happy with with your speakers in your room using the atom as source. Then when you have this look at what source you want. 

(Can I add my voice to say that Bob’s response to HH was what we would classify here as “acting the bollox”).

.sjb

Indeed, or we also might say he was well balanced! 

In my book Atom is way too expensive for a secondary setup

I use a preowned UQ myself

This left more cash for a better amp/speakers in main setup

It will also depend on how much time spend in the rooms

Funny as many post are about next step up from Atom..why on earth are people spending a fortune just to experience they need to upgrade soon after ?

Perol posted:

Funny as many post are about next step up from Atom..why on earth are people spending a fortune just to experience they need to upgrade soon after ?

Twas ever thus!

I would like to say that my comments above were aimed at a general attitude and not at HH in particular and I apologise if I caused him any offence.

My point was this there are people who have worked very hard in life, is or have  brought up a family etc who then get a bit ahead and can buy what they and most of the rest of the population would consider a high end stereo only to visit this forum and be told it is inferior.

Let us say ND5XS/202/250-2 and after all their hard work they can look at this stereo and feel a sense of pride and rightly so. They then think a year later I wonder what a Hicap would sound like so they visit Naim's website and then find themselves joining this forum for advice where they are then told to ditch the ND5XS as it basically an inferior player and to buy an NDX and while your at it the 202 was probably Naims worst pre amp and the 250-2 is bloated and heavy.   

Bob,  I understood your point, but would not express it like you did in the context of responding to Nigel, but perhaps you didn’t know his background. However I would say the 202 is a fine preamp... there are clearly better and worse, the 250.2 is one of the Naim true classic poweramps and can sound wonderful and insightful with superb control and authority... but for what ever reason I would subjectively say the 202 and 250.2 together has a bloated heavy sound.. which might be what you are after with your speakers and room of course. The 202 with 200 is rather agile, and the 552 with 250.2 is mouth watering...but the point is that it is all about subjective preference and combinations and there are many differeing views.. and hopefully anyone new coming to the forum would pick that up.