272/500

I ended up with a 500 as I got one for a little more than a 300 ..I was and am delighted. It's a fabulous amp with great delicacy and picked up more detail than the 250dr .... even on the end of a 272. As for driving speakers it is far superior as it has full control on negative rail..... unlike the 250 or 300 which is to ground.....

Bob the Builder posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Quite so. If I were to move from my 272 it would be to a 552 and NDS or ND555. Not a cheap option. I certainly wouldn’t put a 500 on the end of the 272. The 272/555/300 does work extraordinarily will, but then SL2s are not Fact 12s. 

A 272/555/300 makes as little sense as a 272/500 IMO when for a similar out lay you could own NDX/282/SC/300 or NDX/XPS/282/SC/250 and only one more box,  when you are talking 4 or 5 boxes low box count is a bit of a mute point.

We all know that you think the 272/555 is a joke, but that’s not the point here - I was simply commenting on the OP’s electronics, and as I have the same I can confidently say that they work well. Or even will. 

HH is right the 272/555 is really great bit of kit.....I used it with the 500 and it sounded really great.

OK as it is generally accepted that the 282 is a better pre than the 272 and according to Naim the ND5XS 1 is an equal streamer to a 272 then what would people say to a ND5XS/282/500 or ND5XS/555/282/HC/300? 

Bob - people could comment, either informed or speculative,  as they wish.  The fact is HH has configured his system around the 272/555/300 and I know of at least one other forum member who has heard it and commented that it sounds superb.  If the OP has speakers that he believes could benefit from a NAP 500 then he should audition.  

The 555DR is Naim’s best power supply is it not?So why could a 272/555DR not be a fantastic combo?Sure the 282 is higher on the totem pole,but with a high cap,is it really better than a 272/555DR?I seem to remember one member here that sent his 552 out to be DRd,and borrowed a 272 while it was away,he was amazed at how good it was,if I recall correctly.I agree with HH that Bob the builder seems to bash the 272 every chance he gets,for some reason.

Look I'm just trying to play devils advocate a bit and having a bit of a wind up to make things a bit more interesting.  If we all agreed it would be truly boring wouldn't it?  Or of course we could all just agree and spend our time congratulating one another on what clever buggers we all are for having such fantastic taste .

And I do repeat the question why 272/500 and not 282/500 and why 272/555 and not ND5XS/555? It is a genuine question and this is a question for The Strat and No Quarter why because two or three people say something is good do we all have to accept it? 

Bob the Builder posted:

Look I'm just trying to play devils advocate a bit and having a bit of a wind up to make things a bit more interesting.  If we all agreed it would be truly boring wouldn't it?  Or of course we could all just agree and spend our time congratulating one another on what clever buggers we all are for having such fantastic taste .

And I do repeat the question why 272/500 and not 282/500 and why 272/555 and not ND5XS/555? It is a genuine question and this is a question for The Strat and No Quarter why because two or three people say something is good do we all have to accept it? 

 

Why Bob?...because he already has a 272/555DR,if you were to check his profile.

Imhad the 272/300 combo on demo at home. Streaming sounded very impressive. I must assume the 500 will be even better. However the Power Amps are hughely expensive and there is a limit on how much you can improve the sound on mediocre recordings. The improvement over my current set up was not significant as to warrant the extra investment. But that is a personal choice how much to invest to squeeze the last bit out of the recording.

The 200 is a very capable amp and it’s the 200 I use for parties at very loud volumes not my 250 which becomes quite hot 

the 200 never heats up at party volumes for me

No quarter posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

Look I'm just trying to play devils advocate a bit and having a bit of a wind up to make things a bit more interesting.  If we all agreed it would be truly boring wouldn't it?  Or of course we could all just agree and spend our time congratulating one another on what clever buggers we all are for having such fantastic taste .

And I do repeat the question why 272/500 and not 282/500 and why 272/555 and not ND5XS/555? It is a genuine question and this is a question for The Strat and No Quarter why because two or three people say something is good do we all have to accept it? 

 

Why Bob?...because he already has a 272/555DR,if you were to check his profile.

I'm not posing 282/500 as an alternative to the op it was more of a general question that if a 272/500 is ok does that mean that a 282/500 is too? And if 272/555 sounds great then why wouldn't ND5XS/555 sound great too.

Ok,but the OP asked about THIS specific combo,for his 84db effiicient PMC fact 12s,not changing ALL of his boxes.

I found an impedence trace in a hifi critic review (free online @   

“https://pmc-speakers.com/sites/default/files/attachments/HiFi%20Critic%20fact.12%20Review_0.pdf” 

they’re insensetive but not a difficult load so a 500 will be a good match, to the speakers if not the preamp. This is a step to ND555/552/500 not an end point but it’s where I’m going too (with NBLs).

NAP 200 - 70 W

Nap 250 - 80 W

NAP 300 - 90 W

NAP 500 140 W

The increase in asking prices doesn't correlate with the increase in power.

It's more about increase in sound quality than watts with Naim.

Bob the Builder posted:

No quarter posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

Look I'm just trying to play devils advocate a bit and having a bit of a wind up to make things a bit more interesting.  If we all agreed it would be truly boring wouldn't it?  Or of course we could all just agree and spend our time congratulating one another on what clever buggers we all are for having such fantastic taste .

And I do repeat the question why 272/500 and not 282/500 and why 272/555 and not ND5XS/555? It is a genuine question and this is a question for The Strat and No Quarter why because two or three people say something is good do we all have to accept it? 

 

Why Bob?...because he already has a 272/555DR,if you were to check his profile.

I'm not posing 282/500 as an alternative to the op it was more of a general question that if a 272/500 is ok does that mean that a 282/500 is too? And if 272/555 sounds great then why wouldn't ND5XS/555 sound great too.

I agree that a 272/500 is a ambitious combo unless you are aiming to 552 

one of the reasons that 272 is a good alternative for any power amp might be price rather than SQ

272 - 3699£  vs NDX/282  3799£/4778£ = 8577£ without the power supplies added....

In my view it's source first, a NAP 500 won't turn a Chord Mojo into a Chord Dave.

my 10 years experience with Naim taught me .....buy the most expensive source you can afford, and spend the remaining amount on the amp....  and whatever is left after that, on the speaker.

What amp are used to develop the Fact 12  ?

Perol posted:

What amp are used to develop the Fact 12  ?

 

My guess will be Bryston. In shows they have also been using the PMC cor

analogmusic posted:

In my view it's source first, a NAP 500 won't turn a Chord Mojo into a Chord Dave.

my 10 years experience with Naim taught me .....buy the most expensive source you can afford, and spend the remaining amount on the amp....  and whatever is left after that, on the speaker.

 

 

Better wait for the 372 then

yeti42 posted:

I’m told (by my dealer) that the 300 will cope with a difficult load better than a 500, which makes sense, bridging an amp gives you more watts but not more current capacity, for that you run in parallel. The 500 is about lower noise rather than greater driving ability and is all the better for it but you need to deliverthe right signal to it in the first place. 

I think the dealer has got slightly confused.... we are talking power  amplifiers here into low impedance and low resistive loads. Power is voltage x current. Assuming the signal voltage and current (because amp input impedance is relatively high) is less than the output both voltage and current will be amplified. Within a poweramp itself, often voltage amplification happens before the current amplifying output stages.

Now bridging an amp has several benefits, and one being is the amplified voltage swingcan nearly twice the power supply.. as essentially two amps amplify the signal out of phase with other.. this means the voltage gain of the amplifier can effectively allow the amplified voltage to exceed the powersupply voltage... however the final stages will need to current amplify this voltage, so in the end current amplification of the driver stages is crucial whether bridged or not, and in a bridged amp one  can often get more power (current and voltage) for a given DC power supply, hence often why popular in car audio. So therefore  bridged amplifiers have the potential for better  driving and controlling a difficult impedance load compared to non bridged amplifiers for a given supply voltage... subject to the current amplifying output stages.

However I suspect the main advantage of Naim using bridged amps however is the fact the ground current modulation drops out of the equation, and so potentially a cleaner (less noise and distortion) amplified signal is produced rather than constraints in the powersupply voltage available.

The  actual designs from Naim have the peak current from the 500 at 18 amps as opposed to the 300 at around 25 amps.. but that is more to specific design rather a general point about bridging... 

Simon

Simon, I think Naim went for a balanced design with the NAP500 in order to create a more powerful amplifier without the drawbacks of using multiple output devices.

To go beyond this with the Statement thus meant designing a new and much more powerful output device, the NA009.

What amp are used to develop the Fact 12? 

Perol, I would guess Bryston, I seem to remember that PMC wrote in their Web page something to this effect. They are (were?) importers for Bryston. Rich 

Rich 1 posted:

What amp are used to develop the Fact 12? 

Perol, I would guess Bryston, I seem to remember that PMC wrote in their Web page something to this effect. They are (were?) importers for Bryston. Rich 

Thanks Rich, some Bryston owners around I believe, solid kit.

innovation wins the day, as the statement has multiple output devices now..... 

[@mention:1566878603942595]

What's the difficulty with multiple output devices... Steve Sells said on his interview on the tom tom website one transistor hogs the current more than the other, but would love to know more details....