Is the ND555 now the pinnacle of sound?

analogmusic posted:

I see a number of people on that quest on the forum.... but humbly... I'm very happy on my lowly 282/250DR system....

If I had the funds for a 552/500 sure, but  I feel truly blessed to have what I got...

 

 

Ok yours is humble enough

Minh Nguyen posted:

Halloween Man posted:

analogmusic posted:

I don’t particularly like live music as it’s too damn loud 

I much prefer my naim system all the dynamics at much more gentle volume levels

 

It's about live acoustic music, such as an orchestra in a concert hall...

I politely disagree, to my ears there are many recordings that are more enjoyable than the experience of listening to a live orchestra in a concert hall. For example, when many instruments are being played at the same time, it is often difficult to hear the voice of a solo violin expressing its almost human character. In addition, electric guitars may also have a very desirable quality that is different to an acoustic guitar.

I agree, we’re saying the same thing aren’t we?

Halloween Man posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

Halloween Man posted:

analogmusic posted:

I don’t particularly like live music as it’s too damn loud 

I much prefer my naim system all the dynamics at much more gentle volume levels

 

It's about live acoustic music, such as an orchestra in a concert hall...

I politely disagree, to my ears there are many recordings that are more enjoyable than the experience of listening to a live orchestra in a concert hall. For example, when many instruments are being played at the same time, it is often difficult to hear the voice of a solo violin expressing its almost human character. In addition, electric guitars may also have a very desirable quality that is different to an acoustic guitar.

I agree, we’re saying the same thing aren’t we?

Then we agree.

Emre and French Rooster, I describe my system as humble because AnalogMusic has listened to numerous systems and I have a feeling he has a discerning and inquisitive ear. He has also likely listened to systems that exceed mine in monetary value which is why I welcome his honest opinion. I wonder what he will think of my ND555? It will include custom modifications that are outside the scope of this forum.

Oh that’s a huge responsibility..., hope I don’t disappoint youn Minh

but interested in hearing your custom mods.... and of course the mighty ND555 ...... 

Yes, it will be the best source ever and totally crush everything else. Linn will probably have to close down together with Rega and all Japanese, American and German brands. 

Hit me! 

Minh Nguyen posted:

Emre and French Rooster, I describe my system as humble because AnalogMusic has listened to numerous systems and I have a feeling he has a discerning and inquisitive ear. He has also likely listened to systems that exceed mine in monetary value which is why I welcome his honest opinion. I wonder what he will think of my ND555? It will include custom modifications that are outside the scope of this forum.

İf he say anything negative to bunch of 500s we will ban him...

İt is a Perfect set up, enjoy it 

how did you plan the custimizations..... it have not seen the daylight yet

Emre posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

Emre and French Rooster, I describe my system as humble because AnalogMusic has listened to numerous systems and I have a feeling he has a discerning and inquisitive ear. He has also likely listened to systems that exceed mine in monetary value which is why I welcome his honest opinion. I wonder what he will think of my ND555? It will include custom modifications that are outside the scope of this forum.

İf he say anything negative to bunch of 500s we will ban him...

İt is a Perfect set up, enjoy it 

how did you plan the custimizations..... it have not seen the daylight yet

Hint: They both use the same power supply. Please respect forum rules and enquire no further ????

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Yes, it will be the best source ever and totally crush everything else. Linn will probably have to close down together with Rega and all Japanese, American and German brands. 

Hit me! 

Only when the ND555 drops to sub £5k ncluding PS, and the washers in Chords taps all fail at once...

Just to add to this discussion .... I was staggered how much extra detail the 555psdr added to ripped red book CDs. So the control of jitter is critical. Comparing an 80's LP12 is not in the same league yes it is good warm and romantic it is staggering it sounds as good as it does. My current NDS amazes me .... the speed power and resolution is incredible for 10 year old naim digital technology. The ND555 should be better again. ... and if it is we should all be in for a real treat. I am surprised Naim have not separated out all the elements .... analogue into a shielded box and digital into another...and created statement streaming digital......

To be honest I’m quite sure ND555 will be Naims best offering ever, source-wise. And probably with some margin. I’m guessing one of the best sources of there, period.

And no, I have nothing backing that up, just my old trusted gut feeling...

//Jonas

Richieroo posted:

Just to add to this discussion .... I was staggered how much extra detail the 555psdr added to ripped red book CDs. So the control of jitter is critical. Comparing an 80's LP12 is not in the same league yes it is good warm and romantic it is staggering it sounds as good as it does. My current NDS amazes me .... the speed power and resolution is incredible for 10 year old naim digital technology. The ND555 should be better again. ... and if it is we should all be in for a real treat. I am surprised Naim have not separated out all the elements .... analogue into a shielded box and digital into another...and created statement streaming digital......

It’s marketing: sell this first to everyone that wants and can afford the  best Naim streamer, the do that and release the Statement one, and those who can afford will upgrade. IfSterement done first, or both at same time, there would be fewer sales in total.

Of course, it could be that ND555 really does achieve the best possible with the chips they’re using, and a different approach needed to take sound quality further...

I'm with you Richieroo and Innocent, this time I guess it will be the other way round.

Statement player after the learnt nd555 lesson

Innocent Bystander posted:

It’s marketing: sell this first to everyone that wants and can afford the  best Naim streamer, the do that and release the Statement one, and those who can afford will upgrade. IfSterement done first, or both at same time, there would be fewer sales in total.

Of course, it could be that ND555 really does achieve the best possible with the chips they’re using, and a different approach needed to take sound quality further...

Can you think of any instances where Naim have done anything so cynical in the past?

Me neither.

The ND555 is where Naim are at the moment with technology, they still feel the  Burr Brown 1704k DAC is the best solution. The ND555 tour to dealers is underway, let’s wait and listen, I get a chance in a few days.

Gazza posted:

The ND555 is where Naim are at the moment with technology, they still feel the  Burr Brown 1704k DAC is the best solution. The ND555 tour to dealers is underway, let’s wait and listen, I get a chance in a few days.

I'll be looking forward to your appraisal.

Minh Nguyen posted:

Emre and French Rooster, I describe my system as humble because AnalogMusic has listened to numerous systems and I have a feeling he has a discerning and inquisitive ear. He has also likely listened to systems that exceed mine in monetary value which is why I welcome his honest opinion. I wonder what he will think of my ND555? It will include custom modifications that are outside the scope of this forum.

i fear that chord dave/ blue 2 will still be the boss...for Analogintendedmusic.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Indeed, that streamer you refer I did prefer without the DSP room correction as well. When I asked why they only had profiles of their own speakers and requires specialist setup the answer was something along the lines that creating an accurate as possible profile was very involved, and they felt creating one by the consumer recording one with a quality microphone into some bespoke profiling software just wouldn’t cut it... perhaps an admission that room correction can be useful in some circumstances but it can so very easy to get it wrong.

For the room optimisation facility, there are hundreds of 3rd party speakers measured and usable.  The comment above would seem to refer more to Exakt than to room optimisation.  Exakt is a different and complementary technology that does require in-depth analysis of the speaker and its drivers' electrical behaviour.  Room optimisation only requires physical measurement of the sources of sound from the speaker.

On the point about measuring with a microphone - the problem is said to be that the microphone records the output from the system AND the problems in the room.  Really, it should be about dealing with the problems only, hence the issue with the microphone approach - the microphone does not differentiate.  I'm not sure I fully buy into that view, but that's their view.

Innocent Bystander posted:

kaydee6 posted:

Digital audio without room correction is missing the point. Long way for audio company to catch up. 

Room correction is not the point of digital audio!

However I agree that a potential bonus when in the digital domain is the capability to ‘tune’ the sound far more directly, accurately and possibly with less undesirable side-effects than with analog circuitry - though a DSP device can be added into replay of vinyl to do the same, and Linn and Naim have already done that to enable bettr RIAA equalisation, whence adding additional DSP before the DAC would be simple.

BUT, electronic room correction is not the be-all and end-all, can’t correct some room problems, and can caus espeaker or amp damage if attempting to apply high levels of boost to compensate for nulls in the room. Acoustically, roomtreatment is far preferable, and for certain problems the only real solution - DSP correction can then be the ‘icing on the cake’.

Of course, DSP also provides an opportunity to ‘correct’ poor recordings, e.g. those with diminished (or emphasised) bass, etc, which is no more wrong than any other manipulation of the sound, and could make the music more enjoyable...

If you know of a manufacturer who tries to address room nulls by ramping up the bass output of a pair of speakers, they should be avoided like the plague as they have no idea how room nulls work.  If you have a null, ramping up the bass output makes the null just the same, as the louder peaks are still cancelling each other out.  To cancel room nulls you need sound to be generated elsewhere in the room - from one or more additional speakers.

Acoustic treatment of a room can be a great solution, but for seriously low frequency modes, the room usually isn't big enough to physically accommodate the treatment required to absorb wavelengths that long. 

Christopher_M posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

It’s marketing: sell this first to everyone that wants and can afford the  best Naim streamer, the do that and release the Statement one, and those who can afford will upgrade. IfSterement done first, or both at same time, there would be fewer sales in total.

Of course, it could be that ND555 really does achieve the best possible with the chips they’re using, and a different approach needed to take sound quality further...

Can you think of any instances where Naim have done anything so cynical in the past?

Me neither.

That doesn't imply being cynical, methink 

Why  can't Naim release a statement source ? 

And why for God's sake one would think of that?

They would  already be provided a satisfactory match preventing first's hour fools in the source approach to waste their cash (that's 500 level, let's not forget) 

sunbeamgls posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

kaydee6 posted:

Digital audio without room correction is missing the point. Long way for audio company to catch up. 

Room correction is not the point of digital audio!

However I agree that a potential bonus when in the digital domain is the capability to ‘tune’ the sound far more directly, accurately and possibly with less undesirable side-effects than with analog circuitry - though a DSP device can be added into replay of vinyl to do the same, and Linn and Naim have already done that to enable bettr RIAA equalisation, whence adding additional DSP before the DAC would be simple.

BUT, electronic room correction is not the be-all and end-all, can’t correct some room problems, and can caus espeaker or amp damage if attempting to apply high levels of boost to compensate for nulls in the room. Acoustically, roomtreatment is far preferable, and for certain problems the only real solution - DSP correction can then be the ‘icing on the cake’.

Of course, DSP also provides an opportunity to ‘correct’ poor recordings, e.g. those with diminished (or emphasised) bass, etc, which is no more wrong than any other manipulation of the sound, and could make the music more enjoyable...

If you know of a manufacturer who tries to address room nulls by ramping up the bass output of a pair of speakers, they should be avoided like the plague as they have no idea how room nulls work.  If you have a null, ramping up the bass output makes the null just the same, as the louder peaks are still cancelling each other out.  To cancel room nulls you need sound to be generated elsewhere in the room - from one or more additional speakers.

 

That is precisely my point, but it is not a matter of a manufacturer doing that, but the user setting up with a microphone at home. Whether using a system that scans and seeks to level, e.g. Dirac, or manual tweaking.

But even if not a complete null, but just a dip in response, even a modest boost means a lot more amp power is required without clipping, and speaker drivers needing to cope - not meaning cope at average levels, but on peaks, especially for anyone playing enthusiatically: Boosting to level out a small 6dB dip requres 4x the amp power, putting that through the speaker whenever there is sound at that frequency. 12dB - by no means the largest of dips many people may wish to correct - equates to 16 times the power.

Minh Nguyen posted:

analogmusic posted:

I don’t particularly like live music as it’s too damn loud 

There are some good noise reducing ear inserts available that significantly reduce the volume reaching the ears. There are also versions that allow one to select how much noise reduction they would like. I understand that your system gives you much pleasure but live performances can be particularly memorable. Perhaps it's something to consider in future.

Ear inserts? Give me a break! This is about music, not damage limitation. The live performance which costs you your hearing is, presumably, particularly memorable.

David O'Higgins posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

analogmusic posted:

I don’t particularly like live music as it’s too damn loud 

There are some good noise reducing ear inserts available that significantly reduce the volume reaching the ears. There are also versions that allow one to select how much noise reduction they would like. I understand that your system gives you much pleasure but live performances can be particularly memorable. Perhaps it's something to consider in future.

Ear inserts? Give me a break! This is about music, not damage limitation. The live performance which costs you your hearing is, presumably, particularly memorable.

I beg to differ. Damage to the tiny hairs in the ear canal is permanent when they are exposed to excessive noise levels. The noise reducing earbuds are particularly effective in my humble opinion and various aperture sizes are available that allow the user to still enjoy the experience without having to worry about inadvertently damaging their hearing. A dear forum member once advised that I should be careful with my ears. I very much value their advice and I have learnt to take precautions but each to their own.

But the tiny hairs don’t need to be exposed to damage at all. This is the madness. Music, and loud at that, shouldn’t need to expose our ears to damage in the first place, ergo no need for protection.

David O'Higgins posted:

But the tiny hairs don’t need to be exposed to damage at all. This is the madness. Music, and loud at that, shouldn’t need to expose our ears to damage in the first place, ergo no need for protection.

Standing right next to the speakers can be very loud indeed. Over short durations it may not cause any damage but over the course of a whole day it could possibly be detrimental. I once saw Paul Oakenfold and his set was so loud I was literally submerged in bass. There was so much weight behind it that I could physically feel the heaviness. It was as though I was swimming in a sea of bass and surfing the currents. Next came Paul van Dyk and his set was equally impressive. Massive earth shattering vibrations for the next hour. Ten acts later and music being played at over 120 dB is surely not good for the ears. Memorable, but perhaps for the wrong reasons. Years of abuse could possibly desensitise the ears so I would consider it important to look after the delicate little orifices that are irreplaceable. There is no going back. However, I do agree that loud music for a short period of time is unlikely to cause any long term damage.