Lp12, omg how did I get here

+1 to the above

I would also encourage the original poster, if he is so inclined, to make a "rest and relaxation" trip over to visit the UK- have tea with Meghan, and have fun demoing at Peters (for the reasons above made by the previous poster).

Several of us "Yankees"  have made the pilgrimage and had quite a time demoing.  A bit like being a kid in a chocolate factory with 20 some odd LP12's on demo.  A tour of Naim and Linn can most likely also be arranged.

I have the RP10 because it doesn't require any specialist set-up skill to sound awesome 'out the box'

It's just an excellent deck per se.

If I lived anywhere near Cymbiosis in the Uk, I would most certainly visit Peter and utilise his skills and expertise to have a fantastic sounding LP12 ... 

That isn't an option here in New Zealand and there isn't a Peter 'equivalent' at the local Linn dealer.

As I said previously, I was unable to hear a huge difference between the Majik and Akurate level, demoed side by side ..... if Peter had done the set up, it would probably be a totally different experience.

This goes to show that there is certainly something "extra" that is required to get the LP12 sounding as it should. 

There may well be other very competent Linn guys out there, but it seems that Peter has the mastered the art of setting up the LP12 to extract the best possible sound, that it is capable of delivering.

I wouldn't simply buy an LP12, unless I was 100% confident and certain that it was performing to its best.

Unfortunately, the performance of the Linn turntable, seems to be totally reliant upon the skill of the person who sets up the deck. 

Considering its cost, it really ought to be a device that sounds the same, no matter who sets it up. After all, this applies to most other turntables, so why not the Linn?

As such, not all LP12's are equal - but they should be and perhaps the design ought to be modified by the manufacturer, to ensure that owners are guaranteed the best performance at each level (upgrades etc), no matter who  undertakes the work.

At least the Rega isn't plagued by these issues.

This isn't a dig at Linn - bur perhaps highlights the fact that it may not be the panacea that it once was and it does have an achilles heel .... performance being dependant on the skill of the dealer who sets it up. Which is a shame, considering its cost and you never know if it is performing to its true potential ............ unless Peter applies his magic 

Cymbiosis posted:

 

In the very early days of helping Bodger I did offer to travel to install some equipment for him having researched where he was working/living at that time................. Dave kindly sent me a reply along the lines of it probably wouldn't be good for my health!!!

I think I'm right in saying there probably weren't any "living" Hi-Fi retailers in Sanna Yemen at that time and the same is likely now too! 

 

Thanks Dave 

 

KR

Peter

 

 

 

Peter, you are correct. Sana'a was not a place for the feint hearted and probably more so now. Civil war and high end audio don't even go in the same sentence, etc.

On the other points raised here, I've been overseas since 2005. Had I owned an LP12, the no doubt I would have needed a service or other in that time. Plug in and play just makes sense. This despite Greece being a little more dealer friendly than Yemen!

Just some flowery words on RP8 vs RP10. I had the 8 for about 4 years. It came with the Apheta 1 and was very enjoyable. I bought it just before I knew the 10 was on the way. At that price point, and given that it was Rega or nothing, I wanted to get the "top of the range" TT. As the top just got higher, I always hankered after the 10 as the place to stop and enjoy. In the meantime, the Superline got a supercap, the 252 became a 552 and the 300 became a 500. Most of my RP8 listening, but not all, was through the old system. The 8 had its own character, which I became accustomed to. With the vagaries of vinyl quality, it could be a little harsh. It led me to fiddle with loadings but these seemed to need a change for each LP.

The 10 was ordered with the Aphelion, which is quite a step up in cost and capability to the Apheta. The 10 seems able to get out of the way. It is more tolerant of poorer quality vinyl pressings and provides incredible amounts of detail. I do not feel obliged to experiment with loadings. Apart from the obvious step up in enjoyment, it also feels more solid and better put together than the 8.  

I have never even listened to an LP12, although I could have at Cymbiosis. I may prefer it but as long as I'm overseas, I'll keep my Rega. I know some prefer the 8 to the 10 but I am not one of them.

Dave

Hi Benjy,

Sorry haven't replied to your question sooner. I polished the platter with Brasso and keep my pad on the platter with double sided tape. 

Why does a very expensive turntable have a shrinking mat and require sticky tape, and polishing due to discolouration ?

For what Linn charge, these issues should not occur in the first place and it is reasonable to expect the manufacturer to design out these flaws.

Mr Frog posted:

Why does a very expensive turntable have a shrinking mat and require sticky tape, and polishing due to discolouration ?

For what Linn charge, these issues should not occur in the first place and it is reasonable to expect the manufacturer to design out these flaws.

 

 

Good posting 

Felt is a natural product and will react to the environment. It sounds the best though.

Sticky tape? Never used it.

Polishing. Nope never needed to do that either. I bought the LP12 new in the late 80s. Sure the rim of the outer platter isn't super shiny anymore but it's 30 years old. Does not matter?

Guinnless posted:

Felt is a natural product and will react to the environment. It sounds the best though.

Sticky tape? Never used it.

Polishing. Nope never needed to do that either. I bought the LP12 new in the late 80s. Sure the rim of the outer platter isn't super shiny anymore but it's 30 years old. Does not matter?

Ditto. My mat is more than 20 years old and has not shrunk significantly.

The platter metal is never "ultra" shiny and loses its shine when exposed to light. I bought the LP12 for its considerable sonic qualities - for those that like shiny futuristic looking TT's other striking altermatives  like the Gyrodeck are available.

Boddah posted:

Hi Benjy,

Sorry haven't replied to your question sooner. I polished the platter with Brasso and keep my pad on the platter with double sided tape. 

???? Boddah,...A LP12 is like an instrument.It must be "sued as an instrument"....that is what is so fascinated with LP12,... and also frustrating.

Everything is important about,around a LP12 turntable!
"Attention To Detail" is highly valid when talking about Linn LP12,....see just my thread... "LP12 Radikal Problem".

◾ So,..contact-the surface between outer and inner plate should not touch,and that surface must also be kept clean and fat-free.
But, your felt mat,...it sounds better on one side,...test and play,then turning on the felt mat....play again.
One side plays better,it's a little difference but clearly audible.

◾ Therefore,..you should definitely not,attach it with double sided tape against the turntable.

IF,...you do not hear any difference,your LP12 should definitely be adjusted.

Submit it to a talented LP12 specialist for a walkthrough,he can after the review of your LP12,demonstrate the difference between the felt mat's different pages......

/Peder ????

Peder posted:

Boddah posted:

Hi Benjy,

Sorry haven't replied to your question sooner. I polished the platter with Brasso and keep my pad on the platter with double sided tape. 

???? Boddah,...A LP12 is like an instrument.It must be "sued as an instrument"....that is what is so fascinated with LP12,... and also frustrating.

Everything is important about,around a LP12 turntable!
"Attention To Detail" is highly valid when talking about Linn LP12,....see just my thread... "LP12 Radikal Problem".

◾ So,..contact-the surface between outer and inner plate should not touch,and that surface must also be kept clean and fat-free.
But, your felt mat,...it sounds better on one side,...test and play,then turning on the felt mat....play again.
One side plays better,it's a little difference but clearly audible.

◾ Therefore,..you should definitely not,attach it with double sided tape against the turntable.

IF,...you do not hear any difference,your LP12 should definitely be adjusted.

Submit it to a talented LP12 specialist for a walkthrough,he can after the review of your LP12,demonstrate the difference between the felt mat's different pages......

/Peder ????

no it is just a turntable like others, but a silly high new and second hand prices. I had one but never will have one again.

Robiwan posted:

Peder posted:

Boddah posted:

Hi Benjy,

Sorry haven't replied to your question sooner. I polished the platter with Brasso and keep my pad on the platter with double sided tape. 

???? Boddah,...A LP12 is like an instrument.It must be "sued as an instrument"....that is what is so fascinated with LP12,... and also frustrating.

Everything is important about,around a LP12 turntable!
"Attention To Detail" is highly valid when talking about Linn LP12,....see just my thread... "LP12 Radikal Problem".

◾ So,..contact-the surface between outer and inner plate should not touch,and that surface must also be kept clean and fat-free.
But, your felt mat,...it sounds better on one side,...test and play,then turning on the felt mat....play again.
One side plays better,it's a little difference but clearly audible.

◾ Therefore,..you should definitely not,attach it with double sided tape against the turntable.

IF,...you do not hear any difference,your LP12 should definitely be adjusted.

Submit it to a talented LP12 specialist for a walkthrough,he can after the review of your LP12,demonstrate the difference between the felt mat's different pages......

/Peder ????

no it is just a turntable like others, but a silly high new and second hand prices. I had one but never will have one again.

???? Robiwan,...In my comment I just talk about LP12, not other turntables....as I also have experience with.

And as I wrote,it's like a instruments,...as an example to understand what I mean.

If you pull the screws to hard too the baseboard or trampoline,it will kill the musical presentation.

I can enumerate lots with similar examples,but this knows all who worked on optimizing a LP12.
But we shouldn't talk about that now, just wanted to tell Boddah about not having double-sided tape on he's felt mat.

◾ And I agree,it's to expensive...

/Peder ????

I, too, will confess to having used double sided tape under my LP12 mat. I got fed up with having to peel it from the back of the LP every time I changed it due to the static build up which I could never seem to get rid of. Can't say I noticed any degradation in sound quality.

ChrisSU posted:

I, too, will confess to having used double sided tape under my LP12 mat. I got fed up with having to peel it from the back of the LP every time I changed it due to the static build up which I could never seem to get rid of. Can't say I noticed any degradation in sound quality.

I use an anti-static cloth on new LPs. And all sleeves have anti-static liners.

Peder posted:

◾ And I agree,it's to expensive...

/Peder ????

Mine was £540 brand new

Zackwater

Peter Swain is extremely good at what he does.  No doubt about it in my mind and I too have made a few journeys up to Leicester over the years.  I would strongly recommend as your introduction to Peter and LP12's that a trip to the Great UK could prove a revelation for you.  Peter has numerous LP12's sitting ready to play with various specifications.  He also has the Rega decks and perhaps others besides.  It would be a big journey for you however, I'd suggest a very worthwhile one if you can possibly find the time to provide you with a great basis upon which to make your decision.  It's not that Peter will not offer superb advice, more that you are likely to be living with your decision for many years to come!  Best of luck whatever you decide upon.

Peter

Guinnless posted:

Peder posted:

◾ And I agree,it's to expensive...

/Peder ????

Mine was £540 brand new

Ooops,...It must have been a long, long time ago ????.

/Peder ????

Guinnless posted:

ChrisSU posted:

I, too, will confess to having used double sided tape under my LP12 mat. I got fed up with having to peel it from the back of the LP every time I changed it due to the static build up which I could never seem to get rid of. Can't say I noticed any degradation in sound quality.

I use an anti-static cloth on new LPs. And all sleeves have anti-static liners.

I tried all sorts of stuff like that, but I just couldn't get rid of the static. Sometimes I could pick up the felt mat and walk around the room, and the LP would remain stuck to it. 

i changed the mat of rp10, which had these statics effects, with a leather mat, free of these problems.   The sound is even better.

French Rooster posted:

i changed the mat of rp10, which had these statics effects, with a leather mat, free of these problems.   The sound is even better.

My old Michell turntable had a suede mat which was also quite free of this problem - it was permanently glued to the platter by the manufacturer.

ChrisSU posted:

Sometimes I could pick up the felt mat and walk around the room, and the LP would remain stuck to it. 

I suspect you're actually picking up the LP and it's the felt mat that remains stuck. Walking around the room, especially if carpeted, will only increase the static attraction between the two. This attraction increases in dryer environments. Initial cleaning of LPs with a record cleaning machine and storage in anti-static sleeves will definitely reduce this factor. Alternative mats and double-sided tape are other solutions.

For my part I use a RCM and anti-static sleeves with the awareness that static cling will be an issue during low humidity weather on the felt mat for my RP6. At those times I lift the LP slightly and if clinging can separate it with a spare finger. Maybe some slight dexterity involved. Point being, I wouldn't let the fact that a TT comes with a prescribed felt mat be defining factor in whether or not to buy it.

I think that static comes as part of the pressing process. Run an LP through the RCM and place inside a new anti-static inner sleeve and no more static problems.

joerand posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Sometimes I could pick up the felt mat and walk around the room, and the LP would remain stuck to it. 

I suspect you're actually picking up the LP and it's the felt mat that remains stuck......

No, I was holding only the felt mat! I never bothered with a record cleaning machine, maybe that would have been the answer. Still, for me it is all ancient history now, the LP12 has gone!

I see Rega have just launch a new phono stage, just to complicate the decission making.

Richard Dane posted:

I think that static comes as part of the pressing process. Run an LP through the RCM and place inside a new anti-static inner sleeve and no more static problems.

I would agree with this but am perplexed as to why LPs that I have owned for 30 - 40 years that have never seen a RCM and still reside in their original inners generally have no static issues. Something must have changed in the pressing process, vinyl formulation or maybe just the passing of time. But I really don't recall static being an issue back in the day.

Sam, I think it eventually dissipates naturally, particularly with play, however, when new it has pretty much always been there in my experience.