Olive 102/180

There may well be something in this Olive being more foot tappy. Last night my other half was doing a night shift and left alone I stuck an LP on and another and another and another and then another.  Whilst Brazil were beating Serbia comfortably (sound down) I was doing my best Mick Fleetwood impression. 

Where the 282/300 can be less tolerant of bad recordings on badly pressed vinyl the 102/180 was much less fussy which is great news for me because I have lots of records pressed in the 80’s & 90’s that didn’t sound great on the more expensive Black Boxes. 

I’m looking forward to playing lots of my old reggae and soul records that have stayed inside their covers for the past year and a half. 

I had exactly the same experience on my 72/140. I found myself listening to music styles I do not fancy just because it sounded so well. 'Foot tappy' indeed.

I miss the extreme dynamics of my black boxes - I hope to pair the 72 with hicap / 250 or 2x135's in the (far) future to see if the dynamics can be there in olive too.

Richard Dane posted:

For a similar budget to the ES14s, if you want something a little more sophisticated and cultured, an excellent all-rounder, as competent with classical as with anything else, then you could consider the Spendor SP2/2.  It's a classic, and a slightly updated version is still offered new by Spendor. 

A lot of SP2/2s have a problem with the rubber surround to the cone on the Bass/Mid driver.  Mk1 SP2s are a better bet now. as are any of the SP2/3 series.  I totally agree with description "a little more sophisticated and cultured, an excellent all-rounder, as competent with classical as with anything else".

If you get Mk1 SP2s then I posted a thread on upgrading the internal wiring and the crossover (well worth doing as they are the least good parts of the Mk1s and Mk2s).

Olive 102/180 didn’t impress me much when I heard after reading so many positive comments on olive on this forum 

yes it’s still Naim but without the resolution and refinement of the current Naim’s

tbe current amps really do the Naim rhythms and dynamics well in my opinion

the problem is in different environments including mains and so much SMPS it important to get the mains right

i can hear a clear degrading of dynamics the moment I plug in a tv decoder box into my 202 through analog inputs, even when playing through my chord DAC

setup is crucial to getting that NIP - Naim intended performance 

Im being very careful just what is plugged into my Naim preamp is learning if it got an SMPS...

There are a couple of records that I really love that I just don’t play on my 282/300 because although it does all of the audiophile jazz pressings that I own beautifully there are some ordinary pressings that just sound ordinary. 

Last night I played one of those records Paul Wellers - Wild Wood on the 102/180 and it sounded just right. 

If I play my 1st press vinyl copy of Quadrophenia and it sounds just right then I may be swapping amps and selling my 282/300 lesser detail or not. 

Bob, I wonder how your 300 work with your 102. Is there a consideration to try that?

Ardbeg10y posted:

Bob, I wonder how your 300 work with your 102. Is there a consideration to try that?

Yes I will try both 102/300 and 282/180 of course. The 180 is proving to be a muscular little power amp like a little Staffordshire Bull Terrier.  The 300 is quicker of course but the 180 is no slouch. 

I wouldn’t draw definite conclusions from a 282 and a non Naim power supply

Could members please note that discussion of non-Naim PSUs falls foul of forum rules, thanks.

analogmusic posted:

..playing through my chord DAC

setup is crucial to getting that NIP - Naim intended performance 

 

Does NIP also count for Dynaudio speakers and Chord dac's ?

Perol posted:

analogmusic posted:

..playing through my chord DAC

setup is crucial to getting that NIP - Naim intended performance 

 

Does NIP also count for Dynaudio speakers and Chord dac's ?

Well said.

It is strange why analogmusic likes to make these statements, obviously his rules do not apply to himself or he would have an Ndac and SBL’s to get that NIP. 

Its what we call a NIPpleslip.

Please compare the 282 with the 102, but powered by the 180, and please let us know.....

That is a good test indeed, Analog!

That’s enough I think, thank you. 

I will slot the 282 in place of the 102 in the next few days I suppose the nearest blackbox equivalent would be 282/200 which I had with a Naim Hicap I know memory is a fickle thing but I can't remember that sounding as punchy as the 102/180 but we will see.

I have to reiterate that I'm not saying that the 102/180 is better than my 282/300 but it's vfm can't be ignored,  I'm 48 and my retirement plans could use the £5,000 tied up in those black boxes so I do have a decision to make.

I will be buying a lovely little 42.5 next week do I build a little second system around that and keep the 102/180 as my main system?                                                                                                                    

It's all about the music...... I'm not challenging your findings, keen to see what you do....

having done the 282 vs 202 test many times myself, the 202 always sounded very musical to my ears, and still does....

Bob the Builder posted:

I will slot the 282 in place of the 102 in the next few days I suppose the nearest blackbox equivalent would be 282/200 which I had with a Naim Hicap I know memory is a fickle thing but I can't remember that sounding as punchy as the 102/180 but we will see.

I have to reiterate that I'm not saying that the 102/180 is better than my 282/300 but it's vfm can't be ignored,  I'm 48 and my retirement plans could use the £5,000 tied up in those black boxes so I do have a decision to make.

I will be buying a lovely little 42.5 next week do I build a little second system around that and keep the 102/180 as my main system?                                                                                                                    

Your point with £££ tied up is indeed interesting, as good as the 282 is, its very expensive, often available s/h much reduced, same for a 300.

I have allways liked the old 72 even its minor weakness its incredible value for money, as are many other vintage Naim amps. I had the classic 72/HC/250 for many years back in the 90'ies. I could easy live with these again, just they will probably need a service nowadays.

Good luck with the 42.5, fine with say a 110 or 140 if not a 160.. Julian was onto something back then.

Well I have been listening all morning to my 102 and then the 282 both with the 180. I listened to the same 4 records 

1. Womack & Womack - The Composers - 1st Press

2. The Blow Monkeys - Choices The Singles Collection. 1st Press

3. More Gregory - Gregory Isaacs - 1st JA Press

4. Nirvana - Nevermind - 1st UK Press

And then various internet Radio stations and Tidal HIFI streams

The 102 gave the 282 a real run for it's money on all vinyl,  the 282 did what it does better more detail especially on vocals but the 102 was on the whole more musically enjoyable except on the original Jamaican press Gregory Isaacs LP were the less revealing nature helped the 102 to sound better.

But it was on digital music that the 282 came into it's own and sounded better all round.

Being a vinyl collector and only a casual listner to streamed music I'm going to leave the 102/180 connected up for a week or so to see how I get along with it long term.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

Thank you very much for taking the time to do the test, very interesting findings abut Vinyl vs Digital music.... 

I found the 282 sounded a bit more 3 dimensional with regards to soundstage, whereas the 202 was more flat sounding - and the 282 sounded a quite a bit more spacious.... but it never stopped my from enjoying music on my 202.  

I don't miss the 282 at all when I'm using the 202, on a 200.

But to my ears the 282 is needed if using a 250...

I have a 102, I also have an 82. At various times, I ran the 102 from a FCap, HCap & SCap. FCap->HCap was a significant improvement, HCap-> SCap was not. 

I found the 102 to be incedibly detailed, but would sometimes sound a bit harsh/strident. I have used the phrase “takes no prisoners” before.

My 82 is significantly better than my 102, and does seriously benefit from an SCap, as compared to 2 HCaps. (For info, rest of system is SNAXO-SC, 250s, SBLs.)

If I did decide to keep the 102/180 it would be as part of system downgrade not as part of some new upgrade cycle through the Olive boxes.  This may of course happen but it wouldn't be something I would actively be looking at doing. Listening to what this system is capable of, a system that I have aquired for the cost of a Powerline (of which I owned two once) has been a bit of an eye opener or ear opener.

Digging back into my depleted memory banks I remember swapping out my Nait2 integrated for a 102/180 combo which I bought pre-owned from Graham's in London.  I'm not sure why exactly, but I never warmed to the 102/180 combo, nor admittedly did I experiment with additional boxes.  The Nait2 and LP12 made for a wonderfully musical experience albeit without much oomph to drive the speakers.  My conclusion at the time was I preferred the compromise of the Nait's lack of power vs what to me was a more coherent sound.  I pretty quickly moved on from the 102/180 climbing up the Naim range and I suspect this was the shortest ownership period along my journey so far.  May have been a slight miss-match with speakers/ room, and hopefully Bob's experience will be better than mine with his system/ listening environment.

Peter

analogmusic posted:

 

i can hear a clear degrading of dynamics the moment I plug in a tv decoder box into my 202 through analog inputs, even when playing through my chord DAC

Really? This I will have to try. So I should unplug my TV recorder when I listen to music? Has anyone else noticed or tried this?

tonybabawalla posted:

analogmusic posted:

 

i can hear a clear degrading of dynamics the moment I plug in a tv decoder box into my 202 through analog inputs, even when playing through my chord DAC

Really? This I will have to try. So I should unplug my TV recorder when I listen to music? Has anyone else noticed or tried this?

Yes. I keep everything plugged in of course, but I know that if I switch off everything, there is much less noise.