Will Naim produce a stand-alone DAC from the ND555?

rjstaines posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Burr Brown (Texas Instruments) 1704K DAC chip is still considered the best sounding one even outside NaimWorld. I think that Naim could come out with something different when they'll have the DAC equivalent of the DR. So far, the old 1704K has proved more than adequate.

Or perhaps those who are ready to toss 5/6-digit figures for audio – and expect consequent social recognition – would find it hard to swallow that the same DAC chip was used in the CDX5x, the N-Dac, the CDX2, the CDS3, the CDP555....

Glad you raised this Massimo.... the minute I heard what the ND555 does in comparison to the NDS, I thought to myself  "This is the stuff social recognition is made of, I wonder how much it is?"    So I said to Geoff, who was running the demo,  "How much is it?"  and he told me "£13,000".   I thought to myself "YES, five figures... this will surely be social recognition at last."   And so I said to Geoff  "Yes, do top up my glass of wine, oh, and order me one of these ND555s as well Geoff".   And to be perfectly frank with you, it didn't occur to me to ask where else the DAC chip was likely to be found;  the fact that it was a new product... with a five figure price tag... and sounds nice, was enough.

Well, as I remember, that was roughly how it went, and I suspect the same is true of lots of other folk who've ordered one already  

Droll RJ .. Droll .. I see you typing with a yawn.

feeling_zen posted:

ChrisSU posted:

feeling_zen posted:

I've always thought actually upgrading a streamer with an offboard DAC a bit strange. I mean, yes there are rational reasons for doing it once a streamer is a bit long in the tooth or no current streamers quite float your boat sound-wise, but essentially, it is like upgrading a DAC with another DAC. Ergo, the logical upgrade for a streamer is to buy a better streamer (assuming you can find one you like).

I was toying with the idea of changing my NDX for an ND5XS2 and offboard DAC. Now I’m confused, would that be an upgrade, a downgrade, or both ????

Beats me. Surely the upgrade from an NDX is a XPSdr (if you like what it does) or a ND555.

As much improved as an NDX2 may be over the NDX, constant sideways moves also strike me as odd. Like thinking the upgrade to a 2017 Ford Focus is a 2018 Ford Focus. As opposed to something else entirely. If I was tempted to part with my NDX and going the Naim route, I certainly wouldn't bother with a NDX2 even if it was better than an NDS. I'd go for a ND555 today or skip a generation and go for a NDX3 in a decade from now.

If your streaming source is 99.9% UPnP, then a new streaming platform has no functionality you'll need anyway.

That's not to say that constant sideways approach is wrong. I saw plenty of people buy a CDS1, CDS2, and then CDS3. I just personally can't get my head around it. But I digress, I think the problem with a new Naim DAC is not there being a market for it (I suspect there is) but finding no logical way of fitting it into the range without cannibalising sales. And as others have pointed out, if tech has moved on and Naim are not geared up for working with more current technologies, then the current nDAC is still a mighty find example of the current old methodology at an attractive price point.

You must be very young to consider waiting a decade for a possible NDX3. ????

musicfan51 posted:

feeling_zen posted:

ChrisSU posted:

feeling_zen posted:

I've always thought actually upgrading a streamer with an offboard DAC a bit strange. I mean, yes there are rational reasons for doing it once a streamer is a bit long in the tooth or no current streamers quite float your boat sound-wise, but essentially, it is like upgrading a DAC with another DAC. Ergo, the logical upgrade for a streamer is to buy a better streamer (assuming you can find one you like).

I was toying with the idea of changing my NDX for an ND5XS2 and offboard DAC. Now I’m confused, would that be an upgrade, a downgrade, or both ????

Beats me. Surely the upgrade from an NDX is a XPSdr (if you like what it does) or a ND555.

As much improved as an NDX2 may be over the NDX, constant sideways moves also strike me as odd. Like thinking the upgrade to a 2017 Ford Focus is a 2018 Ford Focus. As opposed to something else entirely. If I was tempted to part with my NDX and going the Naim route, I certainly wouldn't bother with a NDX2 even if it was better than an NDS. I'd go for a ND555 today or skip a generation and go for a NDX3 in a decade from now.

If your streaming source is 99.9% UPnP, then a new streaming platform has no functionality you'll need anyway.

That's not to say that constant sideways approach is wrong. I saw plenty of people buy a CDS1, CDS2, and then CDS3. I just personally can't get my head around it. But I digress, I think the problem with a new Naim DAC is not there being a market for it (I suspect there is) but finding no logical way of fitting it into the range without cannibalising sales. And as others have pointed out, if tech has moved on and Naim are not geared up for working with more current technologies, then the current nDAC is still a mighty find example of the current old methodology at an attractive price point.

You must be very young to consider waiting a decade for a possible NDX3. ????

Haha. Or maybe I just don't think my NDX sounds broken.

Look at it this way. Regardless of what comes after, if you can't live with a GBP 7K source once it has been obsoleted then what was the point in buying it?

rjstaines posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Burr Brown (Texas Instruments) 1704K DAC chip is still considered the best sounding one even outside NaimWorld. I think that Naim could come out with something different when they'll have the DAC equivalent of the DR. So far, the old 1704K has proved more than adequate.

Or perhaps those who are ready to toss 5/6-digit figures for audio – and expect consequent social recognition – would find it hard to swallow that the same DAC chip was used in the CDX5x, the N-Dac, the CDX2, the CDS3, the CDP555....

Glad you raised this Massimo.... the minute I heard what the ND555 does in comparison to the NDS, I thought to myself  "This is the stuff social recognition is made of, I wonder how much it is?"    So I said to Geoff, who was running the demo,  "How much is it?"  and he told me "£13,000".   I thought to myself "YES, five figures... this will surely be social recognition at last."   And so I said to Geoff  "Yes, do top up my glass of wine, oh, and order me one of these ND555s as well Geoff".   And to be perfectly frank with you, it didn't occur to me to ask where else the DAC chip was likely to be found;  the fact that it was a new product... with a five figure price tag... and sounds nice, was enough.

Well, as I remember, that was roughly how it went, and I suspect the same is true of lots of other folk who've ordered one already  

This is how i wanna  do as well  Wine dine and nd555!

I Must have had one of the first ndacs  ,it was before Christmas. the dac was the first dealer demo one which I purchased .what year was it 2010 for a guess.  HISTORY with regard to dacs. my guess is chord sell far more dacs than anyone.  todays market is going away from dac boxes . naim will not produce a stand alone dac period.,why should they,, bet they a selling the nw range  as soon as they are boxed up...

audio1946 posted:

I Must have had one of the first ndacs  ,it was before Christmas. the dac was the first dealer demo one which I purchased .what year was it 2010 for a guess.  HISTORY with regard to dacs. my guess is chord sell far more dacs than anyone.  todays market is going away from dac boxes . naim will not produce a stand alone dac period.,why should they,, bet they a selling the nw range  as soon as they are boxed up...

Good chance Naim will Not produce an updated DAC . They have to know they have to sell quite a few to make it worth it . And it is a crowded area ... many producers of DACs these days ! 

It seems very unlikely that Naim would produce a stand-alone DAC... unless they thought they could make it materially better than the ND555. If they could do this, then it would undermine sales of the new flagship streamer, so it would need to be 2-4 years away. Naim seem to be focusing their efforts on combined Streamer/DAC units.

The Naim Dac series are not 500 series components, as such they are in competition with Chord and other products.

Gazza posted:

The Naim Dac series are not 500 series components, as such they are in competition with Chord and other products.

Exactly 

rjstaines posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Burr Brown (Texas Instruments) 1704K DAC chip is still considered the best sounding one even outside NaimWorld. I think that Naim could come out with something different when they'll have the DAC equivalent of the DR. So far, the old 1704K has proved more than adequate.

Or perhaps those who are ready to toss 5/6-digit figures for audio – and expect consequent social recognition – would find it hard to swallow that the same DAC chip was used in the CDX5x, the N-Dac, the CDX2, the CDS3, the CDP555....

Glad you raised this Massimo.... the minute I heard what the ND555 does in comparison to the NDS, I thought to myself  "This is the stuff social recognition is made of, I wonder how much it is?"    So I said to Geoff, who was running the demo,  "How much is it?"  and he told me "£13,000".   I thought to myself "YES, five figures... this will surely be social recognition at last."   And so I said to Geoff  "Yes, do top up my glass of wine, oh, and order me one of these ND555s as well Geoff".   And to be perfectly frank with you, it didn't occur to me to ask where else the DAC chip was likely to be found;  the fact that it was a new product... with a five figure price tag... and sounds nice, was enough.

Well, as I remember, that was roughly how it went, and I suspect the same is true of lots of other folk who've ordered one already  

I don't know if and what to answer to this. As a simple rule, I avoid replying when I'm not sure if I am being made a fool of, or what. I have not much to say. You obviously have conjured up this nice vaudeville scene to mock me, and made it clear that you bought the object because it sounded gorgeous and you didn't give a s*it about any other criterium such as its cost.

My first impression is of being teased. When it is so, I usually remember that I am not familiar with two fundamental things, the communication codes of social groups, and British people. And I prefer to stay off for some time, to avoid an uneven exchange of amenities.

Enjoy.

M.

a 13,000 GBP streamer isn't a display of wealth... 

The bar has been raised !!!

Now you would need statement amplifier....

Massimo Bertola posted:

rjstaines posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Burr Brown (Texas Instruments) 1704K DAC chip is still considered the best sounding one even outside NaimWorld. I think that Naim could come out with something different when they'll have the DAC equivalent of the DR. So far, the old 1704K has proved more than adequate.

Or perhaps those who are ready to toss 5/6-digit figures for audio – and expect consequent social recognition – would find it hard to swallow that the same DAC chip was used in the CDX5x, the N-Dac, the CDX2, the CDS3, the CDP555....

Glad you raised this Massimo.... the minute I heard what the ND555 does in comparison to the NDS, I thought to myself  "This is the stuff social recognition is made of, I wonder how much it is?"    So I said to Geoff, who was running the demo,  "How much is it?"  and he told me "£13,000".   I thought to myself "YES, five figures... this will surely be social recognition at last."   And so I said to Geoff  "Yes, do top up my glass of wine, oh, and order me one of these ND555s as well Geoff".   And to be perfectly frank with you, it didn't occur to me to ask where else the DAC chip was likely to be found;  the fact that it was a new product... with a five figure price tag... and sounds nice, was enough.

Well, as I remember, that was roughly how it went, and I suspect the same is true of lots of other folk who've ordered one already  

I don't know if and what to answer to this. As a simple rule, I avoid replying when I'm not sure if I am being made a fool of, or what. I have not much to say. You obviously have conjured up this nice vaudeville scene to mock me, and made it clear that you bought the object because it sounded gorgeous and you didn't give a s*it about any other criterium such as its cost.

My first impression is of being teased. When it is so, I usually remember that I am not familiar with two fundamental things, the communication codes of social groups, and British people. And I prefer to stay off for some time, to avoid an uneven exchange of amenities.

Enjoy.

M.

Rj isn't mocking you at all Massimo - maybe just poking gentle fun is all. I'm often guilty of relying too much on obscure English humour when posting, forgetting that many fellow forumites are not from these shores. 

Massimo Bertola posted:

rjstaines posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Burr Brown (Texas Instruments) 1704K DAC chip is still considered the best sounding one even outside NaimWorld. I think that Naim could come out with something different when they'll have the DAC equivalent of the DR. So far, the old 1704K has proved more than adequate.

Or perhaps those who are ready to toss 5/6-digit figures for audio – and expect consequent social recognition – would find it hard to swallow that the same DAC chip was used in the CDX5x, the N-Dac, the CDX2, the CDS3, the CDP555....

Glad you raised this Massimo.... the minute I heard what the ND555 does in comparison to the NDS, I thought to myself  "This is the stuff social recognition is made of, I wonder how much it is?"    So I said to Geoff, who was running the demo,  "How much is it?"  and he told me "£13,000".   I thought to myself "YES, five figures... this will surely be social recognition at last."   And so I said to Geoff  "Yes, do top up my glass of wine, oh, and order me one of these ND555s as well Geoff".   And to be perfectly frank with you, it didn't occur to me to ask where else the DAC chip was likely to be found;  the fact that it was a new product... with a five figure price tag... and sounds nice, was enough.

Well, as I remember, that was roughly how it went, and I suspect the same is true of lots of other folk who've ordered one already  

I don't know if and what to answer to this. As a simple rule, I avoid replying when I'm not sure if I am being made a fool of, or what. I have not much to say. You obviously have conjured up this nice vaudeville scene to mock me, and made it clear that you bought the object because it sounded gorgeous and you didn't give a s*it about any other criterium such as its cost.

My first impression is of being teased. When it is so, I usually remember that I am not familiar with two fundamental things, the communication codes of social groups, and British people. And I prefer to stay off for some time, to avoid an uneven exchange of amenities.

Enjoy.

M.

Massimo, I apologise profusely if I have offended you. I can assure you there was absolutely no intention of making a fool of you.  Indeed, as I was writing it, I had wondered if I should add "no offence intended", realising that not every reader would be British.  As John Willmott commented... "Droll ",  John obviously understands the British sense of humour, which doesn't always translate well to other languages and cultures;  in hindsight, I should not have used such a dry tone on an international forum.  Again, my apologies.  Roger

PS - my point was this, btw - there will be many folk who will order an ND555 without ever hearing it simply because, as you say, it is now the highest priced streamer in the Naim range... and we all know the golden rule of audio purchasing... hear it at home.  

rjstaines posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

rjstaines posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Burr Brown (Texas Instruments) 1704K DAC chip is still considered the best sounding one even outside NaimWorld. I think that Naim could come out with something different when they'll have the DAC equivalent of the DR. So far, the old 1704K has proved more than adequate.

Or perhaps those who are ready to toss 5/6-digit figures for audio – and expect consequent social recognition – would find it hard to swallow that the same DAC chip was used in the CDX5x, the N-Dac, the CDX2, the CDS3, the CDP555....

Glad you raised this Massimo.... the minute I heard what the ND555 does in comparison to the NDS, I thought to myself  "This is the stuff social recognition is made of, I wonder how much it is?"    So I said to Geoff, who was running the demo,  "How much is it?"  and he told me "£13,000".   I thought to myself "YES, five figures... this will surely be social recognition at last."   And so I said to Geoff  "Yes, do top up my glass of wine, oh, and order me one of these ND555s as well Geoff".   And to be perfectly frank with you, it didn't occur to me to ask where else the DAC chip was likely to be found;  the fact that it was a new product... with a five figure price tag... and sounds nice, was enough.

Well, as I remember, that was roughly how it went, and I suspect the same is true of lots of other folk who've ordered one already  

I don't know if and what to answer to this. As a simple rule, I avoid replying when I'm not sure if I am being made a fool of, or what. I have not much to say. You obviously have conjured up this nice vaudeville scene to mock me, and made it clear that you bought the object because it sounded gorgeous and you didn't give a s*it about any other criterium such as its cost.

My first impression is of being teased. When it is so, I usually remember that I am not familiar with two fundamental things, the communication codes of social groups, and British people. And I prefer to stay off for some time, to avoid an uneven exchange of amenities.

Enjoy.

M.

Massimo, I apologise profusely if I have offended you. I can assure you there was absolutely no intention of making a fool of you.  Indeed, as I was writing it, I had wondered if I should add "no offence intended", realising that not every reader would be British.  As John Willmott commented... "Droll ",  John obviously understands the British sense of humour, which doesn't always translate well to other languages and cultures;  in hindsight, I should not have used such a dry tone on an international forum.  Again, my apologies.  Roger

 

PS - my point was this, btw - there will be many folk who will order an ND555 without ever hearing it simply because, as you say, it is now the highest priced streamer in the Naim range... and we all know the golden rule of audio purchasing... hear it at home.    And the 'scene' I describe was exactly the way it was at the recent Acoustica ND555 event... relaxed, food, wine and ND555. 

Roger,

thanks, but as I wrote I didn't feel offended, rather just a little 'off-track'. I didn't know how to relate to your reply. Purely written communication, without the aid of bodily language, and across different languages, is a huge trap. Perhaps a good idea would be to separate British members from all other Europeans, due to a lack of full mastering of British humour and codes – ops, isn't it what's already happening..?

M.

Clearly there’s not an infinite amount of these ND555 Naim plans to make. Like the CD555 before it. 

Those who can afford one of these will be listening to some delightful music

I can’t wait to hear one myself !

Massimo Bertola posted:

Roger,

thanks, but as I wrote I didn't feel offended, rather just a little 'off-track'. I didn't know how to relate to your reply. Purely written communication, without the aid of bodily language, and across different languages, is a huge trap. Perhaps a good idea would be to separate British members from all other Europeans, due to a lack of full mastering of British humour and codes – ops, isn't it what's already happening..?

M.

Yes indeed Massimo, and we'll need all of our British sense of humour when we realise what we've done