naim NAP250/NAC272 versus devialet 220 Pro

By HC, do you mean Hicap? If so, a 272 cannot be powered by a Hicap, although it is improved a great deal by an XPS. 

Yes Hicap .oops

What about the Devialet ? Is it worth it? ?

Devialet is a gadget Black boxes are Hi-Fi.....

it is a good sounding gadget i must admit but i got this “life style Product image that is not my cup of Tea..

is there a Fun devialet forum like this? 

Endless power supply upgrades, interconnects, power pre combos to discuss and spend all your disposable income...

where is the fun like that in devialet?  

Sharon Kabir posted:

Yes Hicap .oops

What about the Devialet ? Is it worth it? ?

As Chris says, you cannot use a Hicap with a 272. You need to listen to the options and decide for yourself. They are very different and it’s what you like that matters. 

I'd be happy with either. I like what Naim does, i like what Devialet does.

I've had Devialet since 2013. At the end of 2016 i had the choice to upgrade my amp to the new Pro version so i took the opportunity to listen to Naim again (272/XPS/250) just to be sure on which way to go. 

For me, i thought the Naim bettered my Dev 120 and was the equal of the 200. The new 220 Pro bettered the Naim setup so i went for the 220 Pro upgrade. Since then the new Core Infinity board has been released so i had that (free) upgrade done. This added functionality such as streaming services and UPnP support and the new dedicated board really upped the game again. I still really like Naim kit but i'm very happy where i am at the moment so have no reason to change.  

As HH says, you really need to go listen and decide for yourself. 

James

Thanks.

Witch speakers you have ? 

 i cant accept 220W in small box ! It is realy 220W ???

I use Shahinian Compass speakers - not really a difficult load. I'm not too bothered about the specs but yes, it's rated at 220W. 

220w in 6 ohm

Sharon Kabir posted:

Thanks.

Witch speakers you have ? 

 i cant accept 220W in small box ! It is realy 220W ???

That's because it uses a variation of the class D amp (pulse width modulation amplifier) principle, where the output transistors switch many small (i.e. very short!) pulses of current into the speakers to create an overall effect that's similar to normal linear amplification.

As the output transistors are either off (no current, so no power dissipated in them) of fully on (only a small voltage across them so only a small amount of power dissipation in them), they don't need massive heatsinks and large amounts of space.  This is a standard feature of class D amplifiers.

James do you think the Expert 440 Pro would beat a 252/300 ?

It would be an interesting choice to have Crackie. I've not heard the 440 (probably best i don't...) but as a big fan of the 300 (but not the 252), i think the 440 would have some tough competition from the Naim combo. It's two box vs four and another advantage of the 440 here is the simplicity to go active.  With a simple configuration change and a couple more speaker cables, active operation is very easy to achieve with appropriate speakers (Eg Kudos)

James

The only thing that scares me. Is that the naim 250 amplifier is not enough for my speakers TOTEM Earth Element (the recomendation from Totem is PS with 150w÷200w)

According to the specs from Totem Acoustic the recommendation for the Element Earth is 50-200W, so no problem with the NAP250.

Sharon Kabir posted:

The only thing that scares me. Is that the naim 250 amplifier is not enough for my speakers TOTEM Earth Element (the recomendation from Totem is PS with 150w÷200w)

80w of naim is sometimes more than 150w of other amps....

Huge posted:

According to the specs from Totem Acoustic the recommendation for the Element Earth is 50-200W, so no problem with the NAP250.

From the spcification :

"The greater the amplifier power, the safer the loudness potential. A 50 watt/channel amplifier, if driven above this 50 watt/channel limit, will naturally produce multiplicatively more distortion than at 50 watts. A 120 watt/channel amplifier will have substantial distortion above 120 watts, but will not allow any significant distortion below 100 watts. To conclude, more amplifier power provides cleaner power and less possibility for damage"

Sharon Kabir posted:

The only thing that scares me. Is that the naim 250 amplifier is not enough for my speakers TOTEM Earth Element (the recomendation from Totem is PS with 150w÷200w)

You could email Totem and get their opinion on whether a NAP250 can drive Earth Elements satisfactorily.

Emre posted:

is there a Fun devialet forum like this?

Do people come here for pleasure?!! Really, I had no idea    This has got to stop!

Sharon Kabir posted:

Huge posted:

According to the specs from Totem Acoustic the recommendation for the Element Earth is 50-200W, so no problem with the NAP250.

From the spcification :

"The greater the amplifier power, the safer the loudness potential. A 50 watt/channel amplifier, if driven above this 50 watt/channel limit, will naturally produce multiplicatively more distortion than at 50 watts. A 120 watt/channel amplifier will have substantial distortion above 120 watts, but will not allow any significant distortion below 100 watts. To conclude, more amplifier power provides cleaner power and less possibility for damage"

The power of the amplifier simply determines how loud the system will go before amplifier distortion kicks in.  For well designed amps, it has little or nothing to do with distortion below that level.

In the case of the Totem Acoustic Element Earth, the sensitivity is 88dB/W.  So with 80W output a NAP250DR will give a theoretical 107dB, and in practice will easily and cleanly exceed 100dB, with no problems and no significant level of distortion.  In other words, you don't need to worry about power, as you'll be damaging your hearing before a NAP250 runs out of power.

Back on topic we’re very much talking apples and oranges here. Any Devialet is a shock as the noise floor simply disappears. Inky blackness doesn’t begin to cover it. It’s spooky. They are also neutral in the truest sense and hearing one takes some getting used to when you realise that you aspire to neutral but, when you finally hear it, you might not like it and might therefore erroneously characterise it as on the cold side of neutral. There’s certainly a fascination on hearing your music presented as you absolutely haven’t heard it before but what you think after the novelty wears off really depends on where your focus lies. The people who dismiss them as lifestyle products are, in my view, glib and Ill-informed. They are anything but. However, they do take some listening through the range to hear what it is they do. 

I found that the neutrality didn’t really engage until the volume went up. That’s a characteristic of my speakers that a 130 exaggerated to the point where it would not have been tolerable for me. I don’t default to high volume and not do I wish to be compelled to do so. 

The lack of noise was incredible and the consequent detail was fascinating and very revealing in terms of how much detail a Naim system excludes for example. However, after a while I concluded that it wasn’t detail which automatically enhanced the listening experience and I missed the PRaT my system continues to give me. It’s there with Devialet in spades but the neutrality is almost frustrating in its accuracy. There are moments in music when one thing dominates even if it’s only in your head. Naim systems allow that to persist. Devialet do not.

Move to a 220 and you begin to lose some, but not all, of the slight grain detectable with a 130. The sound balance switches slightly and you begin to appreciate that there’s something potentially very special going on. Listen to a pair of 220s and you may well have texted the end of your upgrades. Sadly, I can’t afford the latter so my end point tensions my current nicely balanced Naim system.

I don't know about the newer NAP250s but the old chrome bumper version certainly wasn't powerful enough for me. After a few minutes of high volume work the thermal cut out would trip and I'd have to wait for it to cool down - sure fire party killer. Switching to 135s cured it and I've never had the same problem with my Superuniti or Nova. Speakers were Wireless World transmission lines and later, Monitor Audio GR60s.

Agreed, Pev - I had an early Olive 250 which went back to Naim twice due to recurrent channel loss - took quite some months to get it working properly. Was using into SBLs, and sounded good - but I got distinctly nervous driving it hard. 

A second rather later Olive 250 seemed solid, so likely I was just unlucky with my first sample. I'm guessing the latest generation DR versions are likely to be very capable though - plenty of posters here are very positive about them.

Pev, Duncan, these are examples of exceeding the thermal limit (rather than power limits).
This is primarily dependant on the heatsink arrangements of the case and is also  strongly affected by the phase angle profile of the speaker.