Qobuz streaming tipping point

so unfortunately it it will be not my cup of tea.  I don’t want to involve my pc when listening to music.    

Yeah, I agree I don’t like to use any computers when I listen to my music streaming .. other than my iPad... I work with them nearly all day long, last thing I want is to have to use them at home when relaxing.

Ah, but when you get your ND555 Pierre, you’ll be able to stream Qobuz through Chromecast!  ????

French Rooster posted:

if i understood well, to stream qobuz with a naim streamer, you need something like raspberry pi connected in usb to a pc or mac.  So the pc must be switched on?    without a computer opened, it is not possible?

You can use a NAS. Many people on this forum use their embedded NAS computers to act as the stream music server for their Naim streamers as opposed to using a Uniti Core... and if you do you can load Bubble UPnP Server on the NAS as well if you use Synology or QNAP.  But if you don’t have a NAS, you will need somewhere to stream your media from to use your Naim streamer, and you will need a server of some sort of server such as a Pi, MAC or PC.

Nick Lees posted:

Ah, but when you get your ND555 Pierre, you’ll be able to stream Qobuz through Chromecast!  ????

But note that chromecast won’t do gapless, if you care about that. Nor can bubbleupnp stream gapless to the newer Naim streamers (Nova, Star, Atom - don’t know about ND555), only older naim equipment. 

True. But the Qobuz Chromecast app is fixable (if they get round to it) and Naim said they were looking at the Uniti/BubbleUPnP gapless disjunction. 

French Rooster posted:

so unfortunately it it will be not my cup of tea.  I don’t want to involve my pc when listening to music.    

If I understand your profile, you are where I was in that you have an NDS and UnitiServe. Not sure how you back up your music files, but I solved this by buying a QNAP NAS and 2 WD Red hard drives for back up primarily. Then I discovered that streaming locally sounded better having installed Asset on the QNAP and using the QNAP as a server.

I then followed SIS's lead and installed BubbleUPnPServer software on my QNAP and it creates a proxy of Asset. Things sounded even better and allowed me to additionally stream Qobuz which sounds a little better to these ears than Tidal.

Yes the QNAP is using its computer but I needed a NAS anyway for backup (and now as my server).

This all sounds more complicated that it is in reality. Once the QNAP was installed and set up it was straightforward, even for this computer numpty. Don't let the computers bit put you off FR.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

French Rooster posted:

if i understood well, to stream qobuz with a naim streamer, you need something like raspberry pi connected in usb to a pc or mac.  So the pc must be switched on?    without a computer opened, it is not possible?

You can use a NAS. Many people on this forum use their embedded NAS computers to act as the stream music server for their Naim streamers as opposed to using a Uniti Core... and if you do you can load Bubble UPnP Server on the NAS as well if you use Synology or QNAP.  But if you don’t have a NAS, you will need somewhere to stream your media from to use your Naim streamer, and you will need a server of some sort of server such as a Pi, MAC or PC.

 

thanks Simon.   Do you think chromcast integrated in new naim streamers can sound better or worse than using something like raspberry?

nigelb posted:

French Rooster posted:

so unfortunately it it will be not my cup of tea.  I don’t want to involve my pc when listening to music.    

If I understand your profile, you are where I was in that you have an NDS and UnitiServe. Not sure how you back up your music files, but I solved this by buying a QNAP NAS and 2 WD Red hard drives for back up primarily. Then I discovered that streaming locally sounded better having installed Asset on the QNAP and using the QNAP as a server.

I then followed SIS's lead and installed BubbleUPnPServer software on my QNAP and it creates a proxy of Asset. Things sounded even better and allowed me to additionally stream Qobuz which sounds a little better to these ears than Tidal.

Yes the QNAP is using its computer but I needed a NAS anyway for backup (and now as my server).

This all sounds more complicated that it is in reality. Once the QNAP was installed and set up it was straightforward, even for this computer numpty. Don't let the computers bit put you off FR.

my backup downloads are on my pc and i still keep my 400 cds as back up too. So i don’t need specially now a nas.   Later, i don’t know yet, perhaps melco, perhaps an outboard dac to nds, or other streamer ( nd555, audiomat référence is tempting....).  

French Rooster posted: 

thanks Simon.   Do you think chromcast integrated in new naim streamers can sound better or worse than using something like raspberry?

I don’t really know ... I suspect it will be similar, but not sure how Chromecast transfers the media underneath the covers.. if it’s like the UPnP media transfers it should sound pretty similar I would have thought.

Thank you [@mention:1566878603876589], I just tried it myself. Qobuz test version with Bubbleupnp via Synology and Minimserver using Lumin. Got it running wihtin minutes. I really have to get used to the lumin app. I will test Tidal vs. Qobuz this way. AFAIK asset is not available for synology and neither is ReadyDLNA. Therefore I have to get along with Minim. I managed to convert FLAC on the fly to WAV for my local files but somehow it is not working for the Qobuz and Tidal streaming via Bubbleupnp.

The audio decoding to PCM (FFmpeg) is greyed out and therfore not access-able. The ffmpeg app is running and back in the days when I've activated the decoding for my own FLAC files, I've set everything that was necessary within the Minimwatch application etc. Does anyone what I have to do? 

And another problem - in the NAIM app I can see the song playing but not see the whole playlist and I cannot open Rovi.

With Rovi.. you need to trick the Naim app.. load some tracks via Naim app then hit play then stop.... you only need to do once.. now run LUMIN and play a track etc..  switch to Naim app and  the LUMIN track playing is then shown in the Naim app... you should now be able to select the Rovi option for the LUMIN track playing...(the original Naim app tracks are still shown in the playlist). If you ever clear the Naim playlist buffer you will need to repeat. Bit of a faff, but you get to use the Rovi info with Qobuz.

you will not see the whole playlist with the Naim app, because that app only knows how to read the playlist created and stored in the Naim streamer... with BubblesoftUPnP Server, the playlist is created and stored in the BubbleSoft server not the streamer, therefore it is only accessible via LUMIN or equivalent app. Basically unless you want to use Rovi you stick with LUMIN and not touch the Naim app when streaming Qobuz this way.

As far as FFMPEG for transcoding you need to compile and link the latest version of FFMPEG (Minimstreamer can use older versions), as well compile and link a version of LAME (the MP3 encoder)... there are instructions on the BubbleSoft web site.

Thanks for the Rovi hin - that works, but not really well and I find it quite inconvenient to keep songs in the playlist. It's almost like if you keep some UPNP songs in the playlist, use the integrated TIDAL and click on Rovi saying "not this album" and type in the one you would like to swipe through... 

I will compare Tidal integrated/ Tidal via Bubble and Qobuz tomorrow with my NDS/555/552/500 (all DR) tomorrow. I just did a very quick test and couldn't tell a difference to be honest. Maybe mainly because it's not transcoded...

I've been on the Blubblesoft website but it says I should launch a command shell and install Optware-ng which I don't know how to do... it seems very complicated and requires terminal skills. Or do you (or anyone else) know another way?

Thanks again

I alerted my brother to this thread, as he uses a Pi for streaming. It turns out he's using Moodeaudio for Qobuz. Anyone else tried it?

Keith

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Solid Air posted:

Thanks Simon - That's very interesting, thank you. Would you mind explaining the architecture a bit? What device runs Bubble UPNP and how is it attached to the Naim streamer? And also, how do you control it (eg Naim app or something else?) 

I've long felt the future was cloud streaming, but haven't made the leap yet. I'm interested in how you're doing it.

Thanks!

...

Architecturally the Bubble Server is effectively interfacing between the external web streaming service and your home network, and presents the media data to your Naim streamer in a manner that is identical to locally streamed media from your NAS... this appears to be the key bit to transform the SQ of these web services on the Naim streamers.

I understand that the only thing that BubbleUPnP Server actually does is to wrap a non OpenHome renderer (like a Naim streamer) with an OpenHome interface. This way Naim streamers, Chromecast audio devices, etc. can be controlled by OpenHome control points. The integration of Qobuz, Tidal (and perhaps other internet streaming services) is done in your case by the Lumin app, not by Bubble UPnP Server: if you would use Linn Kazoo instead of the Lumin app, you would still see the OpenHome renderers created by BubbleUPnP Server (from Naim streamers, Chromecast audio devices, etc.) but you would not be able to access Qobuz streams. Similarly to Lumin, the BubbleUPnP control app (not to be confused with BubbleUPnP Server) also presents integrated internet and LAN streaming services to renderers. The functionalities needed to manage users' credentials and discover the URI of a specific track can also be implemented at the renderer's level as done in upmpdcli and in Naim streamers for Tidal but not for Qobuz. This is my understanding and I might be mistaken, of course. Best, nbpf

MatthewP posted:

Nick Lees posted:

Ah, but when you get your ND555 Pierre, you’ll be able to stream Qobuz through Chromecast!  ????

But note that chromecast won’t do gapless, if you care about that. Nor can bubbleupnp stream gapless to the newer Naim streamers (Nova, Star, Atom - don’t know about ND555), only older naim equipment. 

Lack of Gapless via Chromecast from Qobuz app has been an annoyance ever since I had an Atom/Nova.  It may just need the Qobuz app to implement it properly but Qobuz told me it was not possible months ago (or no inclination on their part to do so perhaps).

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

French Rooster posted: 

thanks Simon.   Do you think chromcast integrated in new naim streamers can sound better or worse than using something like raspberry?

I don’t really know ... I suspect it will be similar, but not sure how Chromecast transfers the media underneath the covers.. if it’s like the UPnP media transfers it should sound pretty similar I would have thought.

I need to perhaps look at it closer, but I've felt that Chromecast from the Qobuz app has been distinctly worse/quieter recently - I may be imagining it, but I've wondered if the current Chromecast implementation adulterates the audio stream in some way, I assume it's not supposed to.

why naim couldn’t integrate qobuz like tidal?   there is a lot of brands like auralic, aurender, melco, ....with integrated qobuz and tidal, even roon and mqa.  Is it only a question of money? naim don’t want to pay what qobuz asks?  or other reason?

Nbpf... you are right about Openhome casting of a renderer, but the functionality I am talking about and mainly referring to in this thread is the proxy function for external services which BubbleUPnP Server provides ... which acts as a protocol break and a kind of buffer... key to the SQ improvements in my opinion and also helps reduce dropouts.... just look at the source destination addresses of the media transfers in the log or with Wireshark and you’ll see what I mean.

I think my humble little Liv Zen can do most of what you are describing but by using the Logitech Media Server and I can open this directly on my iPad.  No Naim though just a Chord 2Qute.

Bob, yes I think there are many ways of achieving this... I simply prefer using a Naim transport as to my ears it seems to provide the best and most pleasing music with my Chord  DAC into my 552.

Hi all

Can anybody tell me in simple 1,2,3 steps how you install BubbleUPNP onto a QNAP NAS. I am struggling somewhat.

Hi, I don’t have a QNAP, but the instructions are on the BubbleSoft web site 

https://bubblesoftapps.com/bub...server/#qnap_install

perhaps those with QNAPs can chip in.

French Rooster posted:

Nick Lees posted:

No. I run BubbleUPnP from my Synology NAS.

i have no nas, just unitserve.  So i would need to have a pc switched on?

In which case your Unitiserve has no backup. 

You can get a Synology or QNAP NAS running for about £250 and set up the automated backup to it. Then you have a NAS which becomes useful for other purposes too. 

I have a QNAP and have installed BubbleUPnPServer from the Bubble website. I can't remember the process but the instructions on the Bubble site for QNAP installation are relatively clear.