Qobuz streaming tipping point

ffmpeg version 3.4 Copyright (c) 2000-2017 the FFmpeg developers

built with gcc 7.2.0 (Buildroot 2017.08-gb3d40bb-dirty)

configuration: --enable-cross-compile --cross-prefix=/home/jenkins/Optware-ng/buildroot-i686/toolchain/buildroot-2017.08/output/host/bin/i686-buildroot-linux-gnu- --arch=i686 --target-os=linux --pkg-config=/home/jenkins/Optware-ng/scripts/pkg-config.sh --enable-version3 --enable-gpl --enable-nonfree --disable-libxcb --disable-libxcb-shm --disable-libxcb-xfixes --disable-libxcb-shape --enable-openssl --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libopus --enable-libvorbis --enable-libx264 --enable-libfdk-aac --enable-libsoxr --enable-libass --enable-fontconfig --enable-iconv --enable-libfreetype --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-libtheora --enable-libwavpack --enable-libxml2 --enable-lzma --enable-zlib --enable-gmp --enable-shared --disable-static --enable-postproc --prefix=/opt

  libavutil      55. 78.100 / 55. 78.100

  libavcodec     57.107.100 / 57.107.100

  libavformat    57. 83.100 / 57. 83.100

  libavdevice    57. 10.100 / 57. 10.100

  libavfilter     6.107.100 /  6.107.100

  libswscale      4.  8.100 /  4.  8.100

  libswresample   2.  9.100 /  2.  9.100

  libpostproc    54.  7.100 / 54.  7.100

Hyper fast Audio and Video encoder

usage: ffmpeg [options] [[infile options] -i infile]... {[outfile options] outfile}...

Is this ok?

yes I did restart it. Now for the third time. Beside installing ffmpeg - anything within the DSM I need to do or anything within Bubble that I should activate/deactivate? 

Hi DL-Audio.. I will link LAME into my ffmpeg today and give it a go if I get time. I have tried setting to transcode without ffmpeg being properly linked to LAME and no audio streams ... which is what I would expect. (I am using a RPi).

Are you setting the renderer transcode option under the OpenHome renderer portal to decode all audio formats + constraints, and set audio format to WAV.... or are you not getting that far..

Stephen, don't you dare look at this thread.

[@mention:71821642606579623]: The last thing that comes to my mind is that it might be a permission problem for the Bubble user that is running the bubble upnp server. At least I think there is a special user created for the bubble upnp server. I could check this evening when I am back home again, how the permission settings for the opt-directory and its content is set up.

What are the results from the following commands?
ls -l /opt/bin/ffmpeg
ls -l /opt/
ls -ld /opt/

Also you still could check the bubble upnp server logfile if it gives some information.

[@mention:23389351206659471]: For qobuz streaming you do not need the server proxies. Only the openhome checkbox for the renderer (the streamer).

the problem is, the menu in Bubble called "media renderers" the point "audio decoding to PCM" where I can adjust all these things, is greyed out - so that I cannot change a thing. this menu

In addition: does anyone know why the qobuz files aren't converted into wav with minmserver, as the data on my NAS as they are treated just if they are on my NAS? Thanks

DL_Audio posted:

In addition: does anyone know why the qobuz files aren't converted into wav with minmserver, as the data on my NAS as they are treated just if they are on my NAS? Thanks

Do you mean the qobuz stream or have you bought some downloads and did put them on your NAS?

The directly from qobuz streamed music is not routed across minimserver. minimserver does not have anything to do with the qobuz stream. The stream flows like this:

qobuz server => internet => your local network => bubble upnp server => your local network => streamer

If you want to transcode the qobuz stream to wav on the fly you need the ffmpeg thing to activate the transcoding in the bubble upnp server settings for your renderer/streamer.

 

Do you mean the qobuz stream or have you bought some downloads and did put them on your NAS?

I mean stream. 

qobuz server => internet => your local network => bubble upnp server => your local network => streamer

Ok, but why can choose between Minim and other music libraries?

If you want to transcode the qobuz stream to wav on the fly you need the ffmpeg thing to activate the transcoding in the bubble upnp server settings for your renderer/streamer.

I'm trying hard  - what do you say to the results (posted further up)?

 

 

 

Hello [@mention:71821642606579623],

The "ls -l" outputs do look ok, I think. Because the /opt directory already is located on the top most level you have created an unnecessary symlink inside of /opt. You can keep it there, but because it is not useful, you can delete it by

rm /opt/opt

My /opt/bin directory is owned by the user "admin" and the group "users" instead of "root" and "root", but as the permissions to execute the commands are set for everybody (the last "r-x" flags of the first value of each line), this should be ok.

The output of "ffmpeg --version" also looks good.

So better check the logfile next. It is located in 
/volume1/homes/bubbleupnp/appData/

You can also reach it via the File Station on the web GUI in the path homes->bubbleupnp->appData

If we cannot find the solution, you should ask the Bubble developer in his XDA-Forum that is linked on the bubble upnp server homepage. The forum is very chaotic, but usually he helps quite quickly.

DL_Audio posted:

 

qobuz server => internet => your local network => bubble upnp server => your local network => streamer

 Ok, but why can choose between Minim and other music libraries?

You can have multiple media servers in your network. They can be located on the same NAS or on different NASs and computers. On the same NAS two media servers can deliver the same music files from the same directory or can choose different source directories. But other than this the different servers do not have anything to do with each other.

And internet streams like web radio or qobuz usually do not have anything to do with these media servers as well. There can be exceptions, e.g. if you configure a radio stream in minimserver, but this is another topic.

So if you stream qobuz via bubble upnp server the minimserver will not get in touch with this way of streaming.

gert posted:

[@mention:23389351206659471]: For qobuz streaming you do not need the server proxies. Only the openhome checkbox for the renderer (the streamer).

Thanks Gert but I do not need to create any OpenHome renderer: I use upmpdcli (an MPD frontend) as a renderer and this is already OpenHome compatible.

It is true that I do not need server proxies as well but I was wandering whether creating one would alleviate the problems that MPD has in streaming long tracks. These are documented in github.com/MusicPlayerDaemon/MPD/issues/241. The problem shows up rarely but it is very annoying. It depends on the way MPD currently deals with Tidal and Qobuz streams (throttling the stream) which is different from how the Qobuz and the Tidal apps do. Anyway, the bottom line is that, for this specific problem, a proxy server does not help, unfortunately. Thus, I may well untick the checkbox as you suggest.

192.168.178.25 192.168.178.39 - - [26/Jun/2018:09:35:34 +0000] "GET /stream/audio/cdaf8845065b87759f0a1f0df623d88c.flac HTTP/1.1" Async 30505254 "-" "WinampMPEG/2.8" 219459
192.168.178.25 192.168.178.39 - - [26/Jun/2018:09:39:41 +0000] "GET /stream/audio/0c0ba7611ecf6d482537f97fec097fac.flac HTTP/1.1" Async 30052368 "-" "WinampMPEG/2.8" 239044

But I also looked in the configuration.xlr and the bottom lines are:

</entry>
</credentials>
<openHomeTrackId>3</openHomeTrackId>
<openHomeQobuzAudioQuality>27</openHomeQobuzAudioQuality>
<openHomeTidalAudioQuality>LOSSLESS</openHomeTidalAudioQuality>
<enableGoogleCastDLNA>false</enableGoogleCastDLNA>
<openHomeFFmpegAudioDecoding>1</openHomeFFmpegAudioDecoding>
<openHomeFFmpegTranscodeFormat>0</openHomeFFmpegTranscodeFormat>
<openHomeFFmpegReplayGainMode>drop</openHomeFFmpegReplayGainMode>
<openHomeFFmpegMaxSamplerate>-1</openHomeFFmpegMaxSamplerate>
<openHomeFFmpegDownmixMultichannelToStereo>false</openHomeFFmpegDownmixMultichannelToStereo>
<openHomeFFmpegConvert24BitTo16Bit>false</openHomeFFmpegConvert24BitTo16Bit>
</renderer>
</entry>
</renderers>
<superServerMaxAudioBitrate>320</superServerMaxAudioBitrate>
<superServerMaxAudioBitrateLosslessOnly>true</superServerMaxAudioBitrateLosslessOnly>
</settings>

If we cannot find the solution, you should ask the Bubble developer in his XDA-Forum that is linked on the bubble upnp server homepage. The forum is very chaotic, but usually he helps quite quickly.

Ok, great! I was looking for a contact on the bubble website but did not find one. I'm very thankful for your [@mention:18461704845049549] help and I'm quite sure you will find the solution but I don't wanna waste your time of course.

nbpf posted:

gert posted:

[@mention:23389351206659471]: For qobuz streaming you do not need the server proxies. Only the openhome checkbox for the renderer (the streamer).

Thanks Gert but I do not need to create any OpenHome renderer: I use upmpdcli (an MPD frontend) as a renderer and this is already OpenHome compatible.

It is true that I do not need server proxies as well but I was wandering whether creating one would alleviate the problems that MPD has in streaming long tracks. 

Ah ok. But if streaming from qobuz is a problem for MPD, it might help to create an openhome renderer in bubble upnp server even if it should not be required. I do not know how lumin reacts if there are two openhome renderers, but I think you should be able to configure which one you want for streaming? Maybe the bubble-openhome-instance heals the problem that the MPD has when it is streaming directly from qobuz?

DL_Audio posted: 

If we cannot find the solution, you should ask the Bubble developer in his XDA-Forum that is linked on the bubble upnp server homepage. The forum is very chaotic, but usually he helps quite quickly.

Ok, great! I was looking for a contact on the bubble website but did not find one. I'm very thankful for your [@mention:18461704845049549] help and I'm quite sure you will find the solution but I don't wanna waste your time of course.

I fear I do not have any ideas anymore. I'd really like to help you further.

Don't you find a line in the logfile that mentions "ffmpeg" in any way? This could be interesting. You should see, if bubble finds the command or not and if it can use it or not.

I have been running this config for a while, like Simon my interest was piqued in the first thread that mentioned this config with bubbleupnp server and kazoo or LUMIN to stream Qobuz, I had already found the Qobuz stream to be superior to Tidal. I have bubbleupnpserver installed on a Sonore microrendu and it works fine, however, here is the question. 

With LUMIN or Kazoo the responsiveness of the app seems very slow. My control devices are iPhone X and iPad Pro, so no power lacking at that end. For instance, asking LUMIN to play a playlist from Qobuz the build of the playlist seems to be 1 track every 10-15 seconds, I scroll left and right to see if it is all loaded. Does anyone have responsiveness or speed issues with LUMIN in particular ? Could this be attributed to the processing power of the Microrendu ?

No, I find the responsiveness good, the playlist builds when you select an album etc almost instantaneously.

When the playlist progresses, theresometimes is a second delay or so for LUMIN to catch up... in the scheme of things it’s trivial. You can read the logs real-time and perhaps see what is delaying things of you are worried about it... 

The only issue I have had is getting the latest ffmpeg to transcode..I do see plenty of errors in the ffmpeg log.. so might be a library issue on my Pi... anyway I don’t bother with transcode and it works a treat.

S

[@mention:1566878603929697], this certainly is a problem of the hardware either being to slow or having not enough free memory. I had similar but less extreme problems with a synology NAS DS213+. A new, faster NAS DS418play with much more RAM has a much better response time. 

After a fresh reboot of the old NAS adding a whole album to the playlist was quite fast. But with every album that was added more it became slower. Even with a fresh cleared playlist it then took more than 1 or 2 seconds per track. With the new NAS adding a whole album usually takes only this time.

Gert & Simon - Thnaks very much for your helpful responses, I installed bubbleupnp server on an IMAC I use for music server duties and the LUMIN response is vastly improved, now having more fun with Qobuz streaming and less time being frustrated at non responsiveness of the app. Thanks Again.

Glad you got it sorted.

I’ve finally got it up and running, with some help from my bother.

Very jolly indeed. I’ve only tried Tidal (plus I got Lumin to access my Unitiserve) and my initial reaction is it sounds no better or worse than Tidal embedded in the NDS. In other words, it sounds very good. I haven’t tried Qobuz, but may give the 30 day free trial a go.

I did find the Lumin app gets confused (Now playing control screwed up and didn’t go to next track in playlist). Perhaps I freaked it out by testing the same track via Bubbleupnp Tidal, NDS Tidal and ripped CD. Unchecking and rechecking the NDS in the Bubbleupnp web browser seems to have sorted it out for now. 

Keith

Make sure that you clear the openhome playlist in the bubble ipnp server before using the naim app again to control the naim streamer integrated playlist. Otherwise bubble upnp server watches the streamer if the currently played track has finished and starts the next track from the openhome playlist. This stops playing tbe streamer's playlist and sometimes shows otther confusions.

Thanks Gert,

Do you mean I should clear the playlist Lumin before opening the Naim app every time I move from one to the other?

No you can run the two side by side - the streamer will respond to the last app used.. you don't need to clear anything. You don't need to touch the playlists. They are stored separately and don't conflict with each other. The Nam app stores the playlist on the streamer, the BubbleUPnP Server stores its playlist on the Bubble Server.

Thanks Simon,

Lumin seemed to get stuck with track elapse time at 4 mins 37 secs and would only play one track at a time. The playing icon was stuck on ll although it still worked. There does appear to be conflicts between the two apps.